Check your connections good. I just replaced a ground cable from the battery because it was pretty corroded under the insulation. Also could be the brushes in the starter going. You could pull the starter and bring it in to get tested to check the current draw. A starter with no load I believe should draw no more then 75 amps.

 

Thanks for your input!

I've been thinking maybe brushes or armature on the starter also. It's just kinda weird since it's not consistent and not getting progressivly worse.

Anyway, I'll let you know what I find. I'm going to clean up the connections and check them good first. If that doesn't do the trick, then I'll pull it and have it checked out. I can't really think of anything else it could be at this point.

Thanks!

 

It really sounds like a voltage drop/electrical connection problem of some sort & I like all the troubleshoot ideas so far.

if you come to suspect battery cables, or their connections, do a under load voltage drop test, on each suspect when it acts out.

if you don't have a multimeter & assistant to help you do that, you could try a parallel connection of the suspect cable, using a good quality, low resistance, large wire gauge jumper cable.

If it stops acting out & cranks normaly, with the parallel jumper cable in place, suspect that particular cable, or it's connections.

Look for loose, dirty, or corroded connectons or as has been said, corroded end terminals under the insulation.

I had such a bad B+ battery cable once. Found out years later that the battery cables had been on recall !!!! lol

If the cables & connections check out, try "thumping" the starter relay, starter solenoid & starter motor, in that sequence & see if one causes it to wake up.

If all that checks out, then pull the starter motor for a bench test, as has been suggested & let us know what you find.

Just a bunch more thoughts for pondering.

 

Ok.....
Seems like I got it fixed yesterday....... but, what a pain!

Hindsight is always 20/20, but I should have really started at the beginning again. But, since the battery and the charging system had checked out OK last week, I decided to jump in and just pull the starter. An FYI for those who need to do this on a 3.0 Vulcan, the upper mounting bolt is hidden away. It's a stud bolt that the top holds a ground cable and mounts a connector. You have to take the nut off and then you have access to the nut for the stud. This really threw me a curve and cost at least an hour of my time.

Anyway, took the starter to have it bench tested... checked out fine! :dunno:
I was hoping I didn't have a deeper electricial problem, so thought I'd go back to square one. Came back and grabbed the battery so that could be tested. It was low on charge (1st indication of the problem), so they charged it up at Checker and I came back later. They said it came up and was ok for the beginning of the load test, but then fell off quickly.

So, got the new battery... turned right over several times. Guess that was the problem all along. That's why I always have hated electrical issues!!

Thanks for all the input here!

 

I have had similar problems, and after replacing the battery they seemed to get better. In reality the problem, was the starter. Sometimes it works perfectly fine, and others it would turn over really really slow, and then fire up. then other times, would spin fine as if there was no problem at all.

I would still suspect the starter.

 

As the brushes wear they throw off carbon. Over time this causes them to hang up and not make good contact.

 

I had this problem with my 92. The battery voltage would fall off once load was put on (it was 5 years old), so I bought a new one. It still turned over kind of slow so I pulled the starter and had it tested at AZ and it passed, they tested it again and it failed. It was an intermittent problem with the solenoid. Bought a new starter and everything was right as rain ever since.

In hind sight I could have just gotten away with a new starter and left the old battery for a while, it was the combination of a weak battery and bad starter requiring more juice to start..

 

So far everything seems to be ok with the new battery in. I'm just hoping it doesn't turn out to be a starter issue too, but I guess time will tell.
At least now I know the ins and outs of pulling the starter and can prob do it in less than 20 minutes! LOL

 

It's Baaaaaack! :angry:

I thought it seemed to be cranking slow sometimes toward the latter part of last week, and this weekend it stopped cranking completely again.

I tried jumping it this time, to no avail. Took the new battery back to Checker and they tested it.. it's fine, as I thought it would be.

All other electrical seems to work fine and you can hear clicks from both the relay and the starter solinoid, sometimes you can get one or two turns, but that's about all.

So, I'm back to suspecting the starter again. It did bench test ok, but I had banged on it quite a bit when I was pulling it out. So, wondering if it's the same type of situation that rogersn spoke of.

Talked to a friend of mine who was a Ford tech for many years, he thought I should investigage the cables first. Somehow I just don't think they are the problem, as all the connections are good and no signs of corrosion I can see (I know it could be under the insulation, but I just don't think so.). I think it's kinda telling that it fired up right away after the starter was put back with the new battery, and now same problem as before.

Any thoughts before I go chasing my new wild goose?

Thanks everyone!

 

Take the starter back for testing and tell them you suspect an intermittent problem and see if they will test it a few times.

 

Sounds like it is the starter. If they test the starter and it turns, they probably say it is good. It might not have enough in it to turn a compressing engine.

 

I wouldn't put too much faith in the starter testing that places do. Starter systems are pretty simple. If the cables are good and not corrosion or weak cables, and if the solenoid is working enough to actually pull in the contacts to pass electricity to the windings and if the solenoid is working good enough to push the starter drive so it engages the flexplate/flywheel the it will work.

Check the battery voltage when the starter is cranking. If it is falling below 11V then either the starter is drawing too much current, the battery is weak or the cables are bad.

 

Good point on checking voltage.... I'll do that 1st.

I really hate electrical problems... for some reason I'm totally confused by them and end up doing alot of work that in the end was uneeded.

Someone else brought up an interesting point to me today though, regarding having the starter bench tested. The gear and motor aren't under a load. So, maybe it will engage and spin then, but when it tries to turn the engine, it doesn't have enough power. Seems to make sense.

I'll have a chance to play with it in the next day or two. So, I'll check voltage first, if that checks out, I think I'll try running a jumper from the battery to the starter to rule out the cable. If those both check out, I'll move to the starter replacement.

Oh, also, has anyone ever heard of another solenoid mounted on the fenderwell on this year? (1995 3.0 U) I think that was earlier years, and I looked and didn't see anything.

As always... thanks for everyone's input... it's greatly appreciated!

 

Got an update here....

Had a little time this afternoon to do some testing as you all had suggested.

I put a jumper cable on the solenoid + post and the other end directly to the battery... no difference. Checked the battery with multimeter, good voltage. Checked it with turning the key to start... no real voltage drop that I could see on the meter.

No change at all.... just clicks from the solenoid with key in start positiion. So... what do you all think? I'm pretty sure at this point that the starter is the culprit. Unless anyone has some other thoughts, I'm going to pick up another and pop it in later this week.

Thanks again all!

 

Have you tried the sequential "thump test" yet, to see what wakes up????

 

It's hard to get to it to give it a good whack. I did try somewhat from above, but don't think I really hit it hard at all.
I have a feeling that's what woke it up when I pulled it out. I had taken the wrong upper bolt out and was wondering why it wouldn't pull out. So, got out the old hammer and gave it a good thumping!

In hindsight, that's prob the reason it fired right up with the new battery... at least that's what I'm thinking.

 

Final installment of the saga..... hopefully! LOL

Couldn't quite swallow the $150 for a new starter right now, so went to one of the local boneyards. Found a nice one (was pretty clean, etc, from a later year), and popped it in.

Fired right up, sounds like it should... if that makes any sense. The other just didn't sound right even when it did turn over.

So, learned a couple things, and I can pull and install a starter now in 10 minutes or less! A dubious quality at best!!

Anyway.... it's always great to get everyone's feedback and help here.... Big Time Thanks to all!

I'll post later about my roaming at the boneyard and what was there.