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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Here is one question that has not been discussed in the past. It seems to me that my speakers' woofer, surround or other parts are hitting the door speaker cover. This is the speaker.








I suspect that it's the pointy dust cap in the center or perhaps the speaker's surrond. My speakers, Alpine SPR-17S, have a visibly long mechanical throw when bass hits, so its feasible that they can hit the door panel. This normally can't be audible on normal music, but the effect is clearly heard when playing 0dB bass test tones. Has anyone had this problem before? If I grab the door panel by its storage compartment and pull it towards myself sufficiently, rattling will stop. So, IMO the door cover is being hit.

Does anyone know how to deal with this issue? I see two possibilities.

1. Place some kind of soft thick material, some kind of thick rubber or foam object between the door panel and the door, to push the panel away from the speaker.

2. Cut a around hole in the speaker grille. Can anyone recommend a good tool to do this with good precision? I know that the hole can look bad, but I have several round speaker mesh grilles, including the one from Alpines that I could cover the hole with. I suspect putting a mesh grille would actually improve the frequency response of the door speakers and it shouldn't look too bad on the door.
 

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Your front stage is for vocals not bass. So i don't really see why you'd have a problem with slapping the cone on the door. Unless your clipping the speakers trying to throw bass out speakers that aren't made for it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Your front stage is for vocals not bass. So i don't really see why you'd have a problem with slapping the cone on the door. Unless your clipping the speakers trying to throw bass out speakers that aren't made for it.
I would disagree. An ideal front stage should handle enough bass so that subwoofers can be crossovered at 50Hz. This is a perfect formula that a lot of people agree to. The problem is that, this probably requires a 3-way front stage with 8 inch woofers. So in reality, midbass range gets split between the front speakers and a sub. The fronts should be able the midbass notes well. Even if you have a sub that handles midbass region well, if you let it play it loud, you will hear that it's coming from the back. I agree though that front stage speakers are not meant to play 0dB bass tones or SPL bass music tracks all the time.


I would disagree about clipping too. I push these speakers with 160watt RMS per channel, so amp clipping should not be an issue. These speakers are rated for 110watts RMS, and they can take the rated power and more. These are compact and they use conventional magnets, and they're sooo heavy. To give you the idea, they're much heavier than Infinity References and also than HAT Imagines (supposedly good bass speakers too), and I think they all use conventional magnets. They can make your skin feel the bass, trust me. I have a few bass music tracks, nothing truly musical IMO, but kind of fun to put them on to see what my audio system can do. A few times, I have run the front speakers only, without sub, in full range mode to see what they can do and every time I was doing it I was thinking, WTF, 6.5 inch speakers can play sub-30Hz tones with so much authority? But their sound is not sloppy or strained. Of course, there are limits and there is less authority than what a good subwoofer can produce. I never tried to push them to the point where they start to protest. Maybe because of the door panel issue.
 

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Well yes and no. SQ wise I'm with you 100%. The problem is with most people (not saying this includes you, but you never know) they set their front stage in a full range mode. Amp have both high pass and low pass filters (separate) for each channel just for that reason.

As far as the clipping goes..... Clipping has almost NOTHING to do with rms rating and/or if you overpowering them. Its all in the gain knob. The sound of distortion is clipping. Set your gain correctly then you'll be in business. IF its not the gain then its probably your HU setting (which in most cases is supposed to be on flat settings anyways).

Only way I can see the speaker slapping the door panel is if you made your own mounting plates and made them way to thick. That or the speakers are clipping, putting the speaker's xmas to work.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Well yes and no. SQ wise I'm with you 100%. The problem is with most people (not saying this includes you, but you never know) they set their front stage in a full range mode. Amp have both high pass and low pass filters (separate) for each channel just for that reason.

As far as the clipping goes..... Clipping has almost NOTHING to do with rms rating and/or if you overpowering them. Its all in the gain knob. The sound of distortion is clipping. Set your gain correctly then you'll be in business. IF its not the gain then its probably your HU setting (which in most cases is supposed to be on flat settings anyways).
My understanding is the clipping is technically an electric phenomenon. When you ask the amplifier to provide more power than it can, it will chop the peaks of the wave signals sending something close to square waves. So based on this I doubt I could clip the signal of the current amplifier. When speaker is asked to provide more excursion than it can, it's called bottoming out, and it can be audible. I haven't heard either with these speakers.

Only way I can see the speaker slapping the door panel is if you made your own mounting plates and made them way to thick. That or the speakers are clipping, putting the speaker's xmas to work.
I used the provided plastic mounting plates. They are something like 5mm thick. Add to that about 1cm of one way cone excursion when driven hard, and also the 1/3 inch thick surround that sticks out, and this can result in hitting the door panel. Maybe it's not a problem. This rattle is audible only when playing test tones or when playing a couple of bass heavy sound tracks from a couple of my CDs. Neither is really the music I enjoy to listen. What I worry is that slight rattling may happen on normal music content, just audible enough to color music but not strong enough to be identified as rattle sound. It's just a speculation.

I'll leave it as is for now. I will be swapping the front speaker soon, and the new ones do not have a thick surround that sticks out so far. However, they are deeper than Alpines.
 

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My understanding is the clipping is technically an electric phenomenon. When you ask the amplifier to provide more power than it can, it will chop the peaks of the wave signals sending something close to square waves. So based on this I doubt I could clip the signal of the current amplifier. When speaker is asked to provide more excursion than it can, it's called bottoming out, and it can be audible. I haven't heard either with these speakers.
Simply put a clipped waveforms is a distortion (flat spots) in the signal. Clipping comes in many forms. Clipping from the gain setting happens when you turn the gain up too high. This amplifies the signals output (raising the octane) and distorts the signal if adjusted improperly. All head units also clip at a certain volume. Each HU is different but they all clip to a point, so playing it at full tilt is never a good idea. My Eclipse cd8445 HU starts clipping at 77/80 volume (I don't usually turn it up past 70 tho). The other form of comes from the songs themselves, not much you can do there unless you edit your songs to make them 100% safe. A lot of songs have clipping in them you just have to know how to deal with it.

I used the provided plastic mounting plates. They are something like 5mm thick. Add to that about 1cm of one way cone excursion when driven hard, and also the 1/3 inch thick surround that sticks out, and this can result in hitting the door panel. Maybe it's not a problem. This rattle is audible only when playing test tones or when playing a couple of bass heavy sound tracks from a couple of my CDs. Neither is really the music I enjoy to listen. What I worry is that slight rattling may happen on normal music content, just audible enough to color music but not strong enough to be identified as rattle sound. It's just a speculation.

I'll leave it as is for now. I will be swapping the front speaker soon, and the new ones do not have a thick surround that sticks out so far. However, they are deeper than Alpines.
Well if its not clipping only other thing i can think it might be is a loose surround. I had a set of RF Punch components that the glue on one of the surrounds completely came loose and was flapping around. On my door speakers I have a 3/4" piece of wood I used as a template on my Kicker SS 6.5s. I also have the guards installed on them as well behind the door panel. Im not sure how shallow the gen III doors are compared to the gen IV but.. the surrounds shouldn't be slapping on the door thats for sure .
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I am calling off this door modification. I took the plastic panel off today and let the woofer play in my hand. It still makes this rattle noise. It's most likely defective. The left one does not do this.
 

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Simply put a clipped waveforms is a distortion (flat spots) in the signal. Clipping comes in many forms. Clipping from the gain setting happens when you turn the gain up too high. This amplifies the signals output (raising the octane) and distorts the signal if adjusted improperly. All head units also clip at a certain volume. Each HU is different but they all clip to a point, so playing it at full tilt is never a good idea. My Eclipse cd8445 HU starts clipping at 77/80 volume (I don't usually turn it up past 70 tho). The other form of comes from the songs themselves, not much you can do there unless you edit your songs to make them 100% safe. A lot of songs have clipping in them you just have to know how to deal with it.

Well if its not clipping only other thing i can think it might be is a loose surround. I had a set of RF Punch components that the glue on one of the surrounds completely came loose and was flapping around. On my door speakers I have a 3/4" piece of wood I used as a template on my Kicker SS 6.5s. I also have the guards installed on them as well behind the door panel. Im not sure how shallow the gen III doors are compared to the gen IV but.. the surrounds shouldn't be slapping on the door thats for sure .
I do this! I need to make a zip of all my modded music! Boosted (highs and lows), remastered, and exported at 320kbps :D
 

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I am calling off this door modification. I took the plastic panel off today and let the woofer play in my hand. It still makes this rattle noise. It's most likely defective. The left one does not do this.

More than likely a broken surround. Did you notice if you side came loose or not?
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I don't think it's the surround. I also no longer think the speaker is defective. I suspect the rattle is a combination of the speaker being overdriven when playing test tones and bad installation. After all, 30-40Hz test content is not something played often in normal music at high volume (when high pass crossovers are turned on, I use [email protected]). Today, I noticed that there is another problem. Even with small excursion, e,g, when playing a 80Hz test tone, there is a considerable rattle coming from the door once the speaker is installed. It goes away when I press the speaker firmly to the door. I think the problem here is that the speaker is installed on top of a plastic mounting bracket, the one that came in the Alpine box. I think I really should have installed some kind of foam gasket between the speaker and this plastic bracket. My infinity speakers actually came with a roll of foam gasket material, but not these ones. This bracket is the weakest link in my door speaker install. The rest of door had been sound proofed fairly well. All in all I am still fairly impressed with these speakers, but they use lot of power. I can't imagine what the new Alpine Type-Rs sound like.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
This whole thing is non issue. I swapped the speakers a month ago for something different. In the end, it wasn't the cone rattling. It was the sound of bottoming out speaker. The mounting bracket was what came bundled with Alpines (the cool thing about Alpine components is that you always get a free 6x8 bracket).

I still use a similar type of bracket, but I treated it with speaker gasketing tape from Parts Express:

Speaker Gasketing Tape 1/8" x 3/8" x 50 ft. Roll 260-540

I also use it as a seal between subwoofer box and subwoofer (my subwoofer does not have its own rubber gasket).
 
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