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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
First, the left speakers shut off when in "R", then that stopped. Then no rear speakers, and no backup lights. Strange things happen for a reason.

Seems earlier in life, (first 3 years before me) someone did a repair. Used thick, hard splice with epoxy seal. That one cut the other wires in to.

Pic shows my repairs.

I took the extra wire, about 6 inches on each and pulled the excess to the end of the boot inside the car where there is plenty of room.

All is well. Hope this helps someone in the future.

-chart-
 

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Nice work Chart! Common problem on Gen 3s and 4s.
 

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Your Pictures Helped

The problem with my reverse light was in fact a problem with two cut wires. I spliced the wires together and the light came on. I appreciate your post.
 

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First, the left speakers shut off when in "R", then that stopped. Then no rear speakers, and no backup lights. Strange things happen for a reason.

Seems earlier in life, (first 3 years before me) someone did a repair. Used thick, hard splice with epoxy seal. That one cut the other wires in to.

Pic shows my repairs.

I took the extra wire, about 6 inches on each and pulled the excess to the end of the boot inside the car where there is plenty of room.

All is well. Hope this helps someone in the future.

-chart-
Now I know why and how to fix my reverse lights and speakers.:)
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Wires

Now I know why and how to fix my reverse lights and speakers.:)
Never cease to be surprised at how small some power wires are, does not depend on the car maker, they all follow each other around. The rear backup lights have the same size wire as speakers, and go through the same plug connector. I get speaker wire being tiny, but not lighting.

And the headlights must be 24 gage, bout the same as speker wire.

But they have very few issues. Really wonder is the electric fuel pump. Brush motor running under gasoline, most of the time and some times in just gas vapor. So we all have sparks inside out gas tanks. And I know why they work, just can imagine first time engineers proposed this and they tell it to the litigation lawyers.

Oh well, cars run quite well and when looking at the diag. of electric, they are amazingly complicated and reliable.

Happy motoring.

-chart-
 

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Never cease to be surprised at how small some power wires are, does not depend on the car maker, they all follow each other around. The rear backup lights have the same size wire as speakers, and go through the same plug connector. I get speaker wire being tiny, but not lighting.

And the headlights must be 24 gage, bout the same as speker wire.

But they have very few issues. Really wonder is the electric fuel pump. Brush motor running under gasoline, most of the time and some times in just gas vapor. So we all have sparks inside out gas tanks. And I know why they work, just can imagine first time engineers proposed this and they tell it to the litigation lawyers.

Oh well, cars run quite well and when looking at the diag. of electric, they are amazingly complicated and reliable.

Happy motoring.

-chart-
There is a very big difference between an engineer and an enthusiast. An enthusiast will typically design a system the best they can within their budget. An engineer's job is to design a system that will function to the desired specification of the designer with as little expense as possible. That minimization of expense includes not just component cost, but the cost and complexity of assembly. Unfortunately when I was working as a ME for an OE supplier, I found out first hand that the design specification is often lowered by the corporate brass if the cost to build it to the original specification is deemed too high. I can almost guarantee you that our headlight system is not what the original engineer designed initially.

A good friend of mine from college is an EE for Chrysler. One of his recent projects was an engine harness for the RWD V8 engines. He spent 2 months working on ways to reduce the cost of the harness compared to the one they currently use. In the end he was able to save something around $2 per harness by using thinner wire and cheaper connectors, as well as utilizing some sub-optimal routing. He got a bonus for his "exceptional" work.
 

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There is a very big difference between an engineer and an enthusiast. An enthusiast will typically design a system the best they can within their budget. An engineer's job is to design a system that will function to the desired specification of the designer with as little expense as possible. That minimization of expense includes not just component cost, but the cost and complexity of assembly. Unfortunately when I was working as a ME for an OE supplier, I found out first hand that the design specification is often lowered by the corporate brass if the cost to build it to the original specification is deemed too high. I can almost guarantee you that our headlight system is not what the original engineer designed initially.

A good friend of mine from college is an EE for Chrysler. One of his recent projects was an engine harness for the RWD V8 engines. He spent 2 months working on ways to reduce the cost of the harness compared to the one they currently use. In the end he was able to save something around $2 per harness by using thinner wire and cheaper connectors, as well as utilizing some sub-optimal routing. He got a bonus for his "exceptional" work.
now he should build and sell a great harness in the aftermarket. i dont know how much cheaper the connectors could get. i have broken many of them while working on mopar
 

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Also is well and done until the carmakers warranty numbers come in for those redesign components. The 3mis, 6mis, 9mis and 12 mis (months in service) numbers spike, and then another group of engineers are assigned the task to find out what went wrong and how to fix it.

Not to mention the PO customers who have to take their cars back to the dealers to get it fixed and dealer mechanics having to replace components that were never a trouble part before the redesign.

This is false thrift for the automaker involved. In the interest of saving a few pennies here and there and getting their cost reductions that look good on paper, they spend more money in warranty, find and fix campaigns and have the potential to loose current and future customers.

But the bean counters never seem to take this into account in their calculations of how much they are saving/losing for the automaker.
 

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This is false thrift for the automaker involved. In the interest of saving a few pennies here and there and getting their cost reductions that look good on paper, they spend more money in warranty, find and fix campaigns and have the potential to loose current and future customers.

But the bean counters never seem to take this into account in their calculations of how much they are saving/losing for the automaker.
If this way of thinking really lost money in the end, they wouldn't do it. The manufacturers are nowhere near as stupid as people make them out to be. Most of their current financial issues have little to do with building cars. Sure, penny-pinching may end up costing money here and there on certain components on a given vehicle. But being that the same process was applied to every component on the vehicle, there would have to be some major issues among multiple components in a large percentage of units for them to lose money from the process. There are occasions where this happens, but they are the exception not the rule. As far as pissed off customers go, a given manufacturer will usually gain as many as they lose. It's not like only certain manufacturers do this. Every one of them does it. They have to to stay competitive. Some are just better at it than others.

Just as a little background, I'm a mechanical engineer. I work in the aviation world these days, but I used to work for a multi-national automotive OE supplier. I've worked on plenty of new designs as well as redesigns. I've seen countless occasions where a certain cost cutting measure proved in testing and in practice to raise in-warranty failure rates. However, since the cost savings outweighed the cost of the increased failures the design was approved for and stayed in production. A 30% cost reduction for a 2% higher failure rate makes good business sense, even if it is unethical. Thankfully, primary safety systems are pretty much exempt from extreme penny-pinching due to the astronomically high cost of litigation arising from even a small percentage of failures.

You can question the ethics of these cost cutting measures, but not the business sense. This is a big part of why I left the automotive industry. Most of the systems I work on now in aircraft are zero-fail, meaning the only acceptable failure rate is zero. I feel a lot better about what I do for a living these days.
 
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