Taurus Car Club of America : Ford Taurus Forum banner
1 - 20 of 22 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
188 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I dont usually drive the taurus, but on some occasions when i have, ive noticed that hinting odor but never found a spot. Started noting that the coolant was slowly disappearing and despite investigating multiple times never found the "spot" nor found a noticeable spot in the driveway. Was putting new rotors on it today and while working on the passenger side noticed an area of the exhaust pipe right up near the flex pipe (towards the front end of the wheel opening) was looking wet. I wiped the underside with my fingers and sure enough wet with coolant. So we started looking to see what else we could find . We found a wet area (pictured) on what i would say is the top rear area of the water pump, just under the inner edge of the rear cylinder head. I've been reading different posts looking for something that will help me figure out what i need to do to fix it. My brother in law thinks its the water pump, im not convinced yet. Where is the weep hole on these? Above the shaft or below? It seems to me the wet spots- pictured and seen on the exhaust are at odd angles for direct dripping. If it is the WP, since we now have 105+k on it is there anything else we should do when we replace it.
Anything else it might be?
Hood Automotive tire Motor vehicle Bumper Automotive exterior
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,778 Posts
Timing cover gasket. The timing cover on these has two water ports, one for the water pump inlet and one for the water pump outlet. The inlet always seems to leak on these cars over time. Some suspect it's because of the extra flex added to the cover from the little alternator reinforcement.

Two options to fix this because it kinda sucks. One is to remove the coolant tank (drain cooling system first), all the accessories, dog bone, alternator, and the power steering pump bracket (it's held in by two studs that have to be removed by the correct tool or double nut method), the bottom one is almost invisible though. If you unbolt the high pressure chamber from the exhaust manifold, drain the reservoir and remove the lower rubber hose, you can just drape the whole pump assembly out of your way without disconnecting the high pressure line (which requires a new teflon o-ring that's tricky to install if it's your first time). This is the method I recommend and the one I use because it gives full access to the area of the block needing to be cleaned, and you can remove and install the timing cover with the water pump installed as well.

Second method is to remove the water pump, then remove the timing cover after removing all the accessories listed above minus the pump and its bracket. You'll have enough room to get the cover out by itself and back in by itself, with water pump before and after.

Important things to note when doing this:
1. Not all bolts are the same length! Use a piece of cardboard and preserve the orientation of the bolts as you remove them so they go back where they came on reassembly.

2. Oil pan gasket may tear when removing timing cover, be very careful when pulling it up from the bottom. Stuff some rags in there to keep debris from the gasket falling in the pan while you're cleaning. I'd say a solid 8/10 times you can get away without removing the oil pan and replacing the gasket though, just massage it back in place and bead it down with two spots of black RTV to the pan, and then to the cover on reinstall.

3. Clean the surfaces as well as you can. Do not use a steel razor blade on the timing cover, it's aluminum. If there's really stubborn material, I like the 3M roloc wheels but you have to be careful with those since they shoot debris everywhere. Acetone is recommended to have on hand. Block and cover need to be clean if you want this repair to last. Sometimes its easier to buy a new cover in advance to save on time.

4. Some of these bolts penetrate the water jacket! Make SURE to use some sort of thread sealant on installation. The ones that are sealed should come out with orange stuff on the threads, but I just do them all to be extra safe. I use Permatex 59214 personally.

5. Replace water pump and gasket while doing this job, you don't want to do it later because a lot of times removing and reinstalling the water pump is what starts this in the first place by disturbing the gasket. OE water pump comes in handy here since it will likely last the rest of the life of the car.

6. Many here like to use a THIN layer of grey RTV on the face of the block, and the face of the timing cover. Thin enough to where you can see through it. This fills in any pitting/corrosion in the surfaces and helps the fiber gasket last longer. If you do this be extremely careful not to let the gasket tear on installation, since RTV is tacky. I've used this method and it works great, since your timing cover will almost be guaranteed to have some corrosion. If it's severe around the water port then just replace it with a new one. Letting the RTV cure before torquing down isn't necessary since the RTV is just a filler and not the actual gasket.

7. Replace the front crank seal while you have the cover off, tap it out from the back in a circular pattern. Most of the timing cover gasket kits come with a new one, no reason not to do it. If the harmonic balancer is worn you may want to use a "speedy sleeve" which is basically just a tin can that fills in the worn space. Follow instructions of your kit for those.

8. When you reinstall the harmonic balancer, make sure the keyway has a glob of black or grey RTV in there or you'll be removing it again after it pisses oil everywhere.

9. CHANGE THE OIL AFTER! Some coolant will get into the pan no matter what you do. Stuff rags in the exposed area while working to keep the chunks of gasket out while you clean the block surface.


Good luck, it's annoying but not too terrible.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
188 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
Yes 12 Valve Vulcan - 2007 SE

So parts wise: Water pump and gasket + Timing cover gasket set that includes front crank seal and a speedy sleeve.
No need to lower the cradle or anything, can be done in place removing all that you said.
How many hours involved for an experienced mechanic with a semi experienced assistant(me).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,537 Posts
I have done three or four, can't or don't want to remember. It takes me 8 hours to do them by myself. Cleaning the gasket surface and bolt threads take time. The stud that holds on the alternator or PS bracket takes me forever with vice grips. I only used a sleeve on one because I got a cheap National one and just tried it. I used a right angle die grinder with a two inch Scotch pad to clean the cast iron block surface. Really speeds the cleaning but you have to protect the chain and the area from grit. I actually bought two new TC one Dorman and one OEM. Expensive but I thought it was worth it to not have a failure. My 2006 had bad deposits and pitting in the TC.
You need thread sealant for the large bolts since they penetrate the water jacket. I used a real thin coat of RTV on the gaskets.

Most likely the leak is on the water path that feeds the rear head. All my leaks were there. There will be pitting around those holes on both the TC and the block.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,778 Posts
Yes 12 Valve Vulcan - 2007 SE

So parts wise: Water pump and gasket + Timing cover gasket set that includes front crank seal and a speedy sleeve.
No need to lower the cradle or anything, can be done in place removing all that you said.
How many hours involved for an experienced mechanic with a semi experienced assistant(me).
For an experienced pro, probably 4-5 hours.That's if you can speed up cleaning with the roloc discs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
188 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Can we clean up the bolt threads on a wire wheel? Use some clean rags to drape around the chain and gears to keep the crud off? I will get the kit with the sleeve so we have it just in case. Dont want to not have it and then need to get it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,778 Posts
Can we clean up the bolt threads on a wire wheel? Use some clean rags to drape around the chain and gears to keep the crud off? I will get the kit with the sleeve so we have it just in case. Dont want to not have it and then need to get it.
Yep, that will work fine. Make sure you torque the bolts to spec as well in the right order.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,778 Posts
I didnt think of the torque specs/swquence but my BiL would have. Is there a site where i can look that up?
I'll look in my FSM later today to find out what the spec was. I think it was 18ft/lbs for the timing cover bolts and a much smaller number for the 8mm water pump bolts. But as far as sequence I think you just want to do the cross method like you would on a lug nut, it's nothing critical like a cylinder head or anything.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
188 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Couple more questions...Im making an educated guess that the oil pan gasket is rubber, not paper and that is why it doesnt usually tear? Coat it with a bit of rtv when putting it back together or no? I expect there will be bolts from the pan side into the TC? The blob of RTV in the balancer keyway...in one of the ends? Im guessing only the outer end but... Both of the ends? Which end or blobed and spread thru?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,537 Posts
There were two different pan gaskets Ford used. A gummy silicone one and a silicone with metal inserts. The gummy one can rip easy. I clean the surfaces up on the gasket and pan and add RTV on reassembly. I wouldn't use the die grinder on the aluminum TC it will be too aggressive. I used a bench grinder with a wire wheel to clean all my bolts. On the keyway I put in enough to stop the oil seepage. Two small bolts go through the pan into the TC. Put a dab of RTV where the TC, pan and block meet.
Motor vehicle Auto part Gas Metal Automotive exterior
Motor vehicle Auto part Gas Metal Automotive exterior
Motor vehicle Auto part Gas Metal Automotive exterior
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,537 Posts
Which gasket was the later one? I have an '07, the last yr of that generation i think.
I had both but seem to remember on my 2006 it wasn't the gummy one. Also you should think about an oil change. At least drain the pan because coolant can run into the pan, at least that what happened to me on one of them.

This is the thread I did for the repair sleeve. Installing a National Oil Seal Harmonic Balancer Repair...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
188 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I dont know if we will need the sleeve or not yet, getting the kit that comes with one. I did look at some videos of HB's getting sleeved and those used strong locktight red or bearing retainer. They chilled the HB and heated the sleeve to make it go on easier. Your thread did not seem mention any of that and indicated it was a friction fit?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
448 Posts
Hey, if you want a good overview of this project look on YouTube for Fordtechmakuloco, shows it pretty much step by step, very helpful to me. It took me a couple hours a day for almost a week but if I can do this so can you. Somewhere I read this was the result of the different metals, iron block meeting aluminum timing cover. I had to install a new harmonic balancer no sleeve at183,000miles. Let us know when complete,
Scott
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
188 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 · (Edited)
@boulderdentist the differing expansion rates/specific heats of the different mtals will take a toll over time. An o-ring type of gasket would likely last longer, the trade off being the added costs of machining and assembly. Ive done this kind of thing before, changing out a timing belt and all the associated parts on a double overhead cam V6. This will be a bit easier i think as we are not likely needing to mess with the timing chain.

Thanks to all who have provided input. Not likely to do this for at least another week or more. Too much going on.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,537 Posts
I have owned a 91 and a 93 both had over 240k miles on them without a TC gasket failure. The dissimilar metal was not an issue with them and I owned them for 16 years each. Also the front passage on the TC never leaked on and of my four Taurus. I believe the difference is related to way the alternator is supported on different model years. The older years had a separate belt driving the alternator instead of the serpentine belt. The newer years has the supporting bracket that attaches to the stud that also is used for the TC attachment. So either the issue is movement at the attachment point or some electrical current flow due to grounding differential from the alternator.

I also thought an O ring would be the correct way if it was a movement issue and a heavy direct ground wire to the alternator if it is an electrical.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,077 Posts
I have owned a 91 and a 93 both had over 240k miles on them without a TC gasket failure. The dissimilar metal was not an issue with them and I owned them for 16 years each. Also the front passage on the TC never leaked on and of my four Taurus. I believe the difference is related to way the alternator is supported on different model years. The older years had a separate belt driving the alternator instead of the serpentine belt. The newer years has the supporting bracket that attaches to the stud that also is used for the TC attachment. So either the issue is movement at the attachment point or some electrical current flow due to grounding differential from the alternator.

I also thought an O ring would be the correct way if it was a movement issue and a heavy direct ground wire to the alternator if it is an electrical.
O-Ring seals are getting much more common. Tip from a TV show, Power. They assemble lots of engines and dyno them. They use silicone grease, like the kind used on spark plug boots on the match surface so the O-Rings can slip and not shear, pinch or otherwise damage the O-Ring during assembly. Their big issue is on V-8's where the intake mates the two heads on the angle. No negative side effects.
Just sharing.
-chart-
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
Top