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What I think is hilarious is tonight she is doing vocabulary where she had to write the words, the definition, then use it in a sentence. Frustrated being one of the words..... she did it on her own and the sentence read "I'm frustrated with my math homework" :D Yea... she's mine
Didn't see that coming after last night huh? No, not much. :rolleyes2:
 

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They are limited to the number of people applying to the position. Therefore, the results are quite open to interpretation. Nevertheless, within my parameters 100% of the applicants failed a math test. Geography has nothing to do with it, unless someone is trying to insinuate that those who apply for work here are more stupid than those elsewhere.

The nature of the position is one that's extremely heavy in basic math. I need someone capable of adding whole numbers and decimals to accomplish the typical requirements of the job, and to be able to extend invoice amounts and figure sales tax and quantity discounts by percentage. In other words, what used to be taught by junior high school 40 years ago.
 

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In the past eleven months I have interviewed nine people for an open position. All nine failed a basic math test. They couldn't even figure out 6% sales tax on a $100 test amount.

Some things are quantifiable. BTW, 9/9 is 100%. Not 99.9%.

That's why I like math. Answers are either correct, or incorrect. Save the shades of gray for sociology.
:huh:

Interesting. You know what, I waited in line for almost 10 minutes to order some takeout earlier today, because two old women were both confused about the amount of cash and change that they needed to count out in order to pay for their meals. Each came up short multiple times, but just kept yelling at the cashiers trying to do their jobs.

So, that means that you, Lgbpop, also suck at math because I just established a 100% failure rate (2/2) for the "over 50 years of age" demographic. See how your kind of logic works in the real world?
 

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Geography has nothing to do with it, unless someone is trying to insinuate that those who apply for work here are more stupid than those elsewhere.
What, in Florida? Nooooooo, of course not! :p
 

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within my parameters
Exactly, within your parameters.

Geography has nothing to do with it, unless someone is trying to insinuate that those who apply for work here are more stupid than those elsewhere.

The nature of the position is one that's extremely heavy in basic math. I need someone capable of adding whole numbers and decimals to accomplish the typical requirements of the job, and to be able to extend invoice amounts and figure sales tax and quantity discounts by percentage. In other words, what used to be taught by junior high school 40 years ago.
As far as geography goes, it can play a role. Schools in some areas are better than others. Granted, across the entire US, the variation won't be large enough to affect an average, but as far as a metro area goes, some areas will be better than others.

I don't know if I would fit exactly into the generation you're talking about, but speaking for myself, I'm capable of simple math similar to what you're talking about. Now, I'm not a math wizard, but I did very well in math class throughout high school and was towards the top of my math classes.

The same principle could be applied to other areas of education as well; reading, writing, sciences, etc., but the bottom line is that it isn't accurate to represent an entire population of hundreds of thousands or millions of people into one category based on 9 individuals that have succeeded in souring your perception of the rest of us.
 

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They are limited to the number of people applying to the position. Therefore, the results are quite open to interpretation. Nevertheless, within my parameters 100% of the applicants failed a math test. Geography has nothing to do with it, unless someone is trying to insinuate that those who apply for work here are more stupid than those elsewhere.

QUOTE]

My geography reference had to do with the state of 'economic recovery' differing by region. If you are offering an entry level position at commensurately low wages then it follows that in an area with higher employment levels you will have less desirable candidates than in an area with a bleaker picture. Ignorance and stupidity on the other hand, know no boundaries, of course. There is no dumb ass vaccine after all.
 

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I'm sorry, but the fellow businessmen I know - employers all - echo my gripe....the new, "improved" standards are producing kids/entry-level employees less capable of basic math than those taught 20 years ago the old, "inferior" way. When addition/subtraction were first mastered, then multiplication/division, kids understood the relationships between the two. Now, kids don't master anything. I can't afford to hire people who can't multiply and divide - and I am not talking in the Biblical sense. I don't want idiots working for me...but that's all the schools are putting out.

They feel good about themselves, though.:rolleyes2:

If you think about it, under the traditional math, all the student would be mastering is elementary geometry because the time involved to teach math by going from addition, then subtraction, then multiplication, then division, then algebra then geometry, then calculus and trig would take more than 15-16 years to do. Furthermore, the relationships of addition to multiplication is not as evident if we completely separate them.

We now teach multiplication along with addition and here, we directly teach how multiplication is like addition, but a lot quicker to add a set of numbers together rather than stringing a bunch of facts together. Same with subtraction and division.

The traditional method assumes the teacher is teaching math by rote memory, by requiring students to memorize a bunch of facts and figures, not teaching that math is an abstract concept where particular problems don't always coincide what people do in real life. Here is the key component. Traditional math requires rote memorization, where the newer math is an abstract reasoning of math, where the focus is not how the problem is solved, but the whys of how math is computed.

With the problem of 26+17=43, traditional math teaches the concrete answer of 43 and stops right there. The newer math teaches the process of how 43 is the answer by making it understood that 26 and 17, reorganized is made into a base 10 formula, and calculating it so the 26 becomes 30, and the 17 becomes 13, then adding 30 to 13, making 43. Here we teach kids multiplication process at the same time we are examining addition but doing it in an abstract form.

We use base 10 in how place value is determined and how most items are sold in multiples of 10, 12 and so forth. This streamlines a whole bunch of numbers that can easily be calculated without much trouble.

Years ago, math was first taught in first grade, but now Kindegarteners are learning what first and second graders learned years ago.

I have been doing this for the last 28 years, and I have seen traditional math to the new math and see the way it is taught. It takes practice getting out of rote memory, but I see the new math teaching kids math in ways that would have taken a lot longer to compute years ago, but now takes less than a minute to do.
 

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The biggest issue, IMO, is a serious lack of critical thinking and problem solving skills, as well as imagination, ingenuity, and creativity. I deal with lots of employees every day, with frequent changes, and frequently my boss and I are driven nuts by the people we deal with.

But that's just my opinion.
 

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The biggest issue, IMO, is a serious lack of critical thinking and problem solving skills, as well as imagination, ingenuity, and creativity. I deal with lots of employees every day, with frequent changes, and frequently my boss and I are driven nuts by the people we deal with.

But that's just my opinion.

I see this as a teacher as well. What I find is critical thinking in education is not done, and I am required to not teach how to think in a critical means.
 

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Same here, Jag, power-washed my LX and some paint just went off, like, "oh man". Bought the touch-up paint stuff, it's "okay", but ya can tell it's not quite right.
 

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OMG - unbelieveable. I read some of the earlier posts about lack of basic math skills - in some job applicants.

Some people are not good at math - ok we understand - but trouble with add, subtract, multiply, divide, percentages, and fractions ? Unbelieveable. That is pretty basic math.

Understanding what those basic math operations are, how to do them by hand with pencil and paper, or just in your head - with some memorized tables (multiplication tables) - all that was pretty basic stuff we learned by heart and practiced so much in elementary school, it can not be forgotten. (yes > 20 years ago)

What did I hear on the news a few days ago - that writing or printing by hand, with pencil and paper, is "just not that important anymore". That all you need to know is how to sign your name. That everything else is done on a keyboard or by typing text on various devices now.

OMG !

I consider myself lucky - I had early education before the widespread availability of calculators, computers, or smart phones.

We did learn mechanical typewriters (and electric ones too).

Affordable, hand held electronic calculators came along - and that was great - and we used those too after. (we saw slide rules - more as a historical thing - before that - but understood the basic idea of how they worked)

Learning to touch type on the qwerty keyboard (i.e. without looking at the keys) on a mechanical typewriter - was a very valuable skill.

Then affordable personal computers came along - and we learned those too. Before that - mainframes in computing centres.

So I consider myself lucky - I saw and learned the manual ways - by hand, and then the automated or electronic ways during the course of my education.

We saw and learned all these things.

Who is looking for employees with these basic skills ? Gimme a call.
Send me a message. A PM - personal message on this forum.

I think you'll be ok with my skills.

I'm a Gen X 'er. Educated in the 70's and 80's and after that too.

And good varied work experience after that.

Fortunately had a good education and worked hard at it.

[ P.S. we were also taught to always write full, complete, proper sentences in our time. So others could understand you.

That too seems to have changed today.

In one workplace, recently, everyone wrote short little phrases, cryptic little notes, on little scraps of paper, or in the "log book" which could be interpreted in a number of different ways - and so the real meaning was never sure. Very annoying I found.

In that workplace they did *not* even have writing pads anywhere (!), simple full sized, lined pads of paper, 8 1/2 x 11 ! Just little sticky post-it notes ! I brought my own full size lined pads of paper, 8 1/2 x 11 size. ! OMG. ]
 

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My horrible computer class and its mind bogglingly boring lectures.
 

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My horrible computer class and its mind bogglingly boring lectures.
Do you have to sit there and pay attention, or can you do random stuff like text or use the computer without the professor knowing?
 

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Brian 05 SEL said:
You know what, I waited in line for almost 10 minutes to order some takeout earlier today, because two old women were both confused about the amount of cash and change that they needed to count out in order to pay for their meals.
Yes, for a cashier operating a cash till - there is a very practical method which should always be taught, for figuring the change to give back to the customer. [ counting up, from the amount owed to what was tendered ]

Never mind mathematical addition or subtraction at the point of sale.

[ Oh sorry, I forgot - no one uses CASH anymore ... ]

Training - on the job - by someone who has done the position before.
That is what is needed.

On the job training today - seems to be gone by the wayside.

No matter how much experience you may have, there are always different ways things are done in any particular workplace / field.

That needs to be passed on and learned.

Listen and learn from those doing the job now.
Hopefully they will be willing to show you those things.

[ instead, seems like they don't want to train you / don't have the time / don't want to be bothered / expect you to have more than 5 years experience in the field, are "expected" to know everything right from the start, throw you into the position, and let you sink or swim. So you learn yourself, best you can, and ultimately make some mistakes - which will ultimately frustrate customers or clients some, and lead to mistakes. ]

I guess these are some things - Grinding my Gears - today.

Yes ... things have changed a fair bit. I must be getting "old" .
 

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People who choose rush hour to be 'despondent' enough to be on the wrong side of the safety rail on the only multilane major bridge in a metropolitan area at rush hour grind my gears.
 

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Do you have to sit there and pay attention, or can you do random stuff like text or use the computer without the professor knowing?
I can do whatever i want really but its a 3 hour long class and every single question this class could ever answer for me could just as easily be answered by googling that question or using logic. Its just so boring and she doesn't give us a break to move halfway through the class which really doesn't help.
 
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