Taurus Car Club of America : Ford Taurus Forum banner
1 - 20 of 20 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
All, I've been stranded twice now with my 94 taurus wagon, with the 3.8L V6.

The first time, I stopped after driving 45 miles to pick up some food items, went back out and the car would start, but then the idle would go way down and start to sputter and die.

I had it towed to a shop and the next day they started it up fine and it ran for hours without issues.

I drove it for about 5 months and it did it again. A friend of mine replaced the fuel pump and it ran fine for about 6-7 months without issue.

But now it is routinely hot here in SW Ohio, and on the way home it died at a stop light. I pushed it off to the side and after about a 5 minute wait, it started up ok and I drove about 100 yards just to have it die again. I waited about 10 minutes and gave it another go and it started up ok and I drove it about 14 miles and it died yet again while driving 50mph.

Again, I waited for a bit and it started, and continued to drive but about 5 miles doing 50mph and it died yet again. If I tried to start the car right off, it acted like it wasn't getting any fuel, sometimes it would turn over like there was no ignition whatsoever, other times it would start up ok, then immediately start to sputter and die.

The temp here lately has been hovering around 90+ degrees. After I had it towed back to the homestead, I let it set for about 3 hours and then tried to start it up. Which it did just fine. I let it run for a good while, got it hot and the fans kicked in etc. It ran for about 45 minutes without issue.

So, ultimately, could this be the fuel pump getting hot or some other underlying issue relating to ignition/fuel delivery? Possibly electrical?

I appreciate any and all feedback regarding this mysterious issue.

Thanks much!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,392 Posts
Could be the ignition coil going bad, if you rule out the fuel pump. When the car is acting up, check the fuel pressure.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
81 Posts
Could be the fuel relay (located in the constant control relay module). Listen for the sound of the fuel pump prime from the gas tank when you turn the key to ON (before cranking). If no prime you may have a bad module.

The module is located under the front plastic cover, near the battery. Sometimes a hard rap on the top of the module will bring it back to life.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
8,722 Posts
ANy CM codes present? 94 is EEC IV / TFI. TFI (ignition) modules and the PIP (stator) RPM / timing pickup inside the distributor are very common vailure items on all EEC IV / TFI Fords. Stalling hot, not starting hot and then restarting / running fine after a cool down are typical symptoms of failing TFI / PIP.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Update: I've checked the connections and grounds near the module and battery. No signs of overheating or shorting.

There are no codes present as well.

My wife drove the car numerous times Sunday, without any issues at all.

I'm fixing to go buy a fuel pressure tester so I'll have it handy if and when the time comes again.

Thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Update: I drove the car to work yesterday morning, the temp was around 70ish, one way 55 miles with no problems.

Drove home, the temp was around 89-90ish with no problems as well.

I bought a Master Fuel Injection Pressure Kit from Harbor Freight, brand 'us general' and yesterday evening I hooked it all up and it measured 0 - zilch.

The screw on connectors 'button' was maybe an 1/8 of an inch down the connector, which on the Schrader valve itself, it was down there fairly deep, more than 1/8 of an inch and I think the combination of the two, just wouldn't allow the valve to be pushed down to let loose the pressure.

The car started fine as well and you could hear the fuel pump fire up and then go quiet upon key-on.

I'm sure the valve on the Schrader can come up some as it looks like someone cranked it all the way down.

But, on the fuel pressure gauge itself, should the metal button be somewhat flush with the screw on connector, or be down inside the connector a little ways?

Thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
update: I bought a spiffy schrader valve needle tool and totally removed it from the fuel rail. I turned the key to "key on" and fuel spewed out just fine. I then screwed it down somewhat and turned the key back on... then I screwed the valve down to where it was no longer squirting, or releasing fuel.

I plugged my $80 fuel pressure gauge from harbor freight and still see 0 pressure. that's even after screwing it down a good bit with channel locks to ensure it is all the way down.

So..I'm leaning that the valve is so far down and the button on the new guage is also so far down, that between the two they cannot release the pressure. Which sucks since I ponied up $80 for this master fuel pressure gauge set.

Any ideas ?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
14,126 Posts
Fuel boiling would not cause the car to stall unless the pressure was extremely low such as under 15 lbs when running. More than likely it is the crank signal. What does this engine use to get the crank signal from?
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
8,722 Posts
More than likely it is the crank signal. What does this engine use to get the crank signal from?
Crank (RPM) signal comes from the PIP Hall effect sensor (stator in Fordspeak) located inside the distributor.

As I stated above, these symptoms sound like the classic EEC IV PIP sensor and/or TFI module taking a dump. Thats why I asked if there were any CM codes like intermittant PIP failure or intermittant IDM failure. Sometimes these failing components set CM codes, sometimes they dont. These parts should be replaced with Motorcraft only, as virtually all the cheaper aftermarket replacements are junk.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
34 Posts
I own a 93 and a 94 Taurus and have this problem with both cars. They run fine when cool but in hot weather they both do what is described here. When the 94 doesn't actually fail it acts like the timing is not being advanced and it runs like a dog. I'm headed to my mechanic with this information and will comment more later. Another note, when it is hot, the gas tank (near the cap) acts like it is going to explode. I crack the cap and it vents but it really doesn't change the way it runs. If I don't vent it the thing continues to rumble until things cool down after shut down, maybe 5 or more minutes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Update: I changed out the ignition control module a couple of days ago and it ran fine until yesterday evening when we were going out to eat, the outside temp was around 90. We got about 20-25 miles down the highway when it crapped out :(

We sat there for about 5 minutes, it started up and we made it about 7 or so miles, almost to our destination. Pull over and repeat. It started up and then we got stuck at a light! Very frustrating. After one cycle of the light, it started up and we zipped it into the restaurant... whew!

When we left, it was in the mid 80's and it made the trek all the way back home without stalling once.

I'm heading out to get the stator/pickup coil and hopefully scratch this one off the list.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
update: Holy crap!! I didn't know you had to practically dismantel the whole distributor to replace this part until I got into it. After some ingenuity I finally got it all back together and went to start it up.... I discovered I left the key in the ON or RUN position, which after nearly 6 hours dicking with it and my neon's A/C system, the charge went south. At first I was reaching in and trying to line up the rotor to plug one, then I resorted to turning the crank. I didn't turn the key off, nor did I disconnect the battery, so hopefully I didn't fry anything in the process.

It's on the charger now and I will test it in a few and make any timing adjustments, if I can at all.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
34 Posts
A google search of "Taurus TFI module" brings back plenty of info that certainly points to this being the problem. I found the Motorcraft part at O'Reilys for $187 but I really don't want to spend that much just to trouble shoot the problem, especially after reading that it didn't fix the problem for you (bknepper)!

I had this problem with my '93 Taurus so bad the other day on my mail route that I had to stop (I should say the vehicle stopped) every 45 minutes, cool for 10, go for for another 45, and so on until I finished my route. I watched the temp gauge and could just about tell when it would cut off. I brought it home from the PO late last night and watched the gauge all the way home. It stayed at point somewhat less than half and I never had a problem. On the route, lots of stop and go, if the gauge went just a tad over half it would cut off. I tried running the AC to increase the fan speed but that didn't help. I ran the heater and it did keep it down but it made it unbearable in the car. Maybe a good radiator flush and fresh antifreeze would keep the temp down. From what I read, there is no guarantee that changing the module will cure the problem.

I'm off to search more for a better solution, a real fix.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
34 Posts
Update: My mechanic replaced the TFI module on my '94 (mounted on/in the firewall) last fall but I had to wait for the hot SC weather to see if it fixed it. Good news, I have not had a stall yet and have been using it in 100+ weather.

The '93, I have not replaced it yet. I was going to get one from Pull-A-Part but I can't find a tool to get it off. It appears to be about a 5.5 mm head on the screw/bolt, but it seems to be inaccessible with standard sockets. I got a good picture with my camera and I think I need a socket with a very thin wall. I inquired at O'Reily's if they knew of a special tool that might come with the new part, but he didn't have the part at that store to check. Anyone know about this?

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,865 Posts
Special Socket

Update: My mechanic replace the TFI module on my '94 (mounted on/in the firewall) last fall but I had to wait for the hot SC weather to see if it fixed it. Good news, I have not had a stall yet and have been using it in 100+ weather.

The '93, I have not replaced it yet. I was going to get one from Pull-A-Part but I can't find a tool to get it off. It appears to be about a 5.5 mm head on the screw/bolt, but it seems to be inaccessible with standard sockets. I got a good picture with my camera and I think I need a socket with a very thin wall. I inquired at O'Reily's if they knew of a special tool that might come with the new part, but he didn't have the part at that store to check. Anyone know about this?

ok, I tried to insert the picture but I guess I haven't figured out how to use Flickr as a site to store my pics. (Maybe it can't be done!) Here's a link if you want to see the module. TFImodule93Taurus | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

I believe this one ground down on the od is the one I made for that. Ground down the OD on bench grinder, years ago. Think it is 7/32 cheap 6 point socket.

Others might want to chime in.

-chart-
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
34 Posts
Update: I had the entire distributor replaced and thought for sure this would fix it. While it runs very well, in hot weather (above 90) the car will still cut off after about 3 hours of driving on my mail route. If I get a day without a cutoff and I manage to complete the route and park the car and complete my work at the PO (about 10 minutes) the heat seems to build up and the car starts and then stalls about a mile down the road on the way home. I let it sit for 5-10 minutes and it restarts and I go the rest of the way at highway speeds with no problem.

It was suggested that it could be the DPFE sensor so I borrowed an identical one from my 94 (which is soon on the way to the junkyard). I also removed the panel above the relay box thinking I might swap that if the DPFE sensor didn't make a difference. It reached near 90 degrees today and I had no problems. I think it is supposed to be a bit warmer tomorrow, we will see.

Mike
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
34 Posts
It got up to almost 90 degrees today and all went fine until I finished my route (4+ hours) and went inside to clear out and check out, about 10 minutes. Car started fine but I didn't make it out of the parking lot before it died. I immediately got out and poured cold water on the relay box. The car started right back up but I only make it a short distance down the road. A little more cold water on the relay box and while I was at it I poured some one the DPFE sensor. This time I got moving quick enough that things cooled down and I made it to Sam's about 20 miles away and finally home with no problems. I suspect when it gets above 90 I won't even make it around the route.

Mike
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,071 Posts
It got up to almost 90 degrees today and all went fine until I finished my route (4+ hours) and went inside to clear out and check out, about 10 minutes. Car started fine but I didn't make it out of the parking lot before it died. I immediately got out and poured cold water on the relay box. The car started right back up but I only make it a short distance down the road. A little more cold water on the relay box and while I was at it I poured some one the DPFE sensor. This time I got moving quick enough that things cooled down and I made it to Sam's about 20 miles away and finally home with no problems. I suspect when it gets above 90 I won't even make it around the route.

Mike
Go to the bone yard and get a CCRM relay module and swap it out. While your at it, redo all the grounds around it.
 
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
Top