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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Don't flame me, don't flame me. Hear me out.

T04E T3 TURBO/TURBOCHARGER .63 400+HPS 57 TRIM 1-30 PSI on eBay.ca (item 150518160961 end time 16-Nov-10 20:48:49 EST)

I was going to build headers anyway, might as well make them turbo headers. Now, I know the basics, so don't anybody tell me that I'll need HKS stickers or something for it to work properly, or that a Taurus can't go fast. I'll deal with the piping, I'll deal with the location, there're just a few things I need to research.

My questions are as follows:

How much boost can I feed my engine before it vents a gasket? The ranger guys run anywhere from a safe 6 to a dangerous 17 on stock everything with a supercharger. Apparently one member of rangerpowersports.com vented a gasket at 8 psi with an eaton M90, then somehow held 12 psi with a whipple. So, in a perfect world, a safe 6 psi would net me about 40% increase, which would put me over 200hp to the wheels. 12 psi would be almost 80% and put me around 260. I know it doesn't work like that, but I DO know 12 > 6. So, can I run 12?

Secondly, what determines when a gasket blows? Is it psi or power? We know the boost psi is the amount of air we feed our engines over atmospheric. So, no-math-involved-for-example-purposes-only, a bone-stock taurus at 8 psi might make the same power as a modified taurus at 4 or 5 psi. Therefore, if a stock taurus lets go at, say, 15 psi... would the modified taurus vent at 10 or 11?

And finally, what exactly happens when an AX4S is subjected to twice the maximum torque limit?
 

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IIRC around the late 90s Ford switched to longer head bolts for better clamping force. Don't quote me on that as I may be remembering this from the Essex (3.8, 3.9, 4.2) V6. Either way, don't lump all year Vulcans into one pot to determine what is safe.

Also being a Ranger owner and poster on RPS and R-F, the largest difference is in the guys that got their trucks professionally tuned around the boost. Hell even Wheat, who runs a Thomas Knight electric supercharger, has had his truck properly tuned.

The EEC-V is known for it's flexibility and adaptability, but there are limitations to that. My personal rule of thumb with a Ford and EEC-V is to run no more than 6 PSI until you can source a person and/or money to have it professionally tuned on the dyno. At 6 PSI you will still have a lot of fun, but won't run into the danger of destroying anything.

Your mention of headers has me a little concerned. Are you planning on buying two turbos or just one? If just one, leave the headers/manifolds alone and put the turbo at the y-pipe. Still plenty of heat and velocity at that point to spin the turbo up just as much as if it were attached to the manifold/header.

As for the transmission, let me share with you a bit of experience from my Fiero years. The Getrag 5-spd manual that came in those cars has a torque limit of about 210 ft-lbs and the 4T40 4-speed automatic was rated at a maximum of 190 ft-lbs. They both withstand the V8 swaps that are thrown at them with easily twice the torque output, they have the same life span, BUT it is all due to the owner/driver.

You cannot launch the car hard or driving it around like a stunt driver from The Transporter 3 and have any reasonable expectation the transmission is going to live, regardless of the torque output of the engine.

So will a AX4S live above the torque limit? Yes, as long as your foot stays out of it. Only take it to the drag strip/track/drive it like a maniac AFTER you have torn it apart and rebuilt it with quality steels and components.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
IIRC around the late 90s Ford switched to longer head bolts for better clamping force. Don't quote me on that as I may be remembering this from the Essex (3.8, 3.9, 4.2) V6. Either way, don't lump all year Vulcans into one pot to determine what is safe.

Also being a Ranger owner and poster on RPS and R-F, the largest difference is in the guys that got their trucks professionally tuned around the boost. Hell even Wheat, who runs a Thomas Knight electric supercharger, has had his truck properly tuned.

The EEC-V is known for it's flexibility and adaptability, but there are limitations to that. My personal rule of thumb with a Ford and EEC-V is to run no more than 6 PSI until you can source a person and/or money to have it professionally tuned on the dyno. At 6 PSI you will still have a lot of fun, but won't run into the danger of destroying anything.

Your mention of headers has me a little concerned. Are you planning on buying two turbos or just one? If just one, leave the headers/manifolds alone and put the turbo at the y-pipe. Still plenty of heat and velocity at that point to spin the turbo up just as much as if it were attached to the manifold/header.

As for the transmission, let me share with you a bit of experience from my Fiero years. The Getrag 5-spd manual that came in those cars has a torque limit of about 210 ft-lbs and the 4T40 4-speed automatic was rated at a maximum of 190 ft-lbs. They both withstand the V8 swaps that are thrown at them with easily twice the torque output, they have the same life span, BUT it is all due to the owner/driver.

You cannot launch the car hard or driving it around like a stunt driver from The Transporter 3 and have any reasonable expectation the transmission is going to live, regardless of the torque output of the engine.

So will a AX4S live above the torque limit? Yes, as long as your foot stays out of it. Only take it to the drag strip/track/drive it like a maniac AFTER you have torn it apart and rebuilt it with quality steels and components.
It'll be dyno tuned for sure after it's FI. I want to know what's going to the wheels for bragging rights. I was thinking twin, but I don't know if there's enough room to mount two, not to mention I'll probably spool up quicker to 12 psi on 6 cylinders than 3. If I go single, then I'm considering just buying G4 manifolds from rockauto & magnaflow y-pipe off SHOsource. The G4 is a little more velocity-friendly, and my cats are about pooched as is. It'll probably run me about as much as headers, anyway.

But, 12 psi on a '97?
 

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If using twin turbos, the ones in your ebay link are WAY too big, especially for only 6 psi. Spool time will be excessive, and you will be well out of the high efficiency "island" on the compressor map.

If that turbo listed is really new, a little over $100 is terribly cheap, leading me to believe is it a POS chinese made piece of junk that wont last. A decent professionally rebuilt turbo using high quality parts will cost you hundreds of $$. Last American made Garrett turbo (remanufactured by Evergreen, not even "new") I bought about 10 years ago cost me around $500, but has lasted me to this day pushing 24 psi. you get what you pay for.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
If using twin turbos, the ones in your ebay link are WAY too big, especially for only 6 psi. Spool time will be excessive, and you will be well out of the high efficiency "island" on the compressor map.

If that turbo listed is really new, a little over $100 is terribly cheap, leading me to believe is it a POS chinese made piece of junk that wont last. A decent professionally rebuilt turbo using high quality parts will cost you hundreds of $$. Last American made Garrett turbo (remanufactured by Evergreen, not even "new") I bought about 10 years ago cost me around $500, but has lasted me to this day pushing 24 psi. you get what you pay for.
I'm aiming for 12, not 6. Also, I just found a listing in my area for the turbos off a Volvo S80 for $300, so I might be going twin after all.
 

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I'm aiming for 12, not 6. Also, I just found a listing in my area for the turbos off a Volvo S80 for $300, so I might be going twin after all.
S80s are bi-turbo, meaning one turbo is larger than another.
 

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Makes sense. I was wondering how that would work on an inline 6. I'll figure out which one I want to use and re-sell the other one. :dunno:
For twins, without plotting a map and going by sheer memory, a TD04-14G is the best choice for a Vulcan going twin turbo. Mitsubishi 3000GT used these turbos, I believe the Eclipse used them as well. Saab 9-5s also used TD04s.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
I've read it a long time ago, and again just now, and fail to see it's relevance to this topic. This actually falls into the category of posts I asked not to happen in the beginning, by basically only explaining the concept of FI. Right now we're debating turbo choice, and I'm trying to find out if 12 psi intercooled will vent my headgaskets if 3.0 vulcan rangers can run 17 psi, and apparently up to 20 psi with water injection which is about the point where the pistons and/or rods melt. I apologize if I skipped over that part of the article.

@ 84FordMan: I'm only going twin turbo if it's easier, which is almost not going to be the case. As much fun as it would be to say "I've got a twin turbo Sable" I think single turbo is just as ludicrous.
 

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Simply put, yes, 12 psi will sooner or later destroy something. You really need to either lower the compression. Sure the Ranger guys do it, but how often do they report back that the car didn't make it 10,000 miles or that they have to constantly tinker with it to keep it running.

I would not run over 7 psi on a stock engine. What basically happens is the heat and pressure gets high enough that the head bolts stretch slightly, allowing a gap to open up in the gasket. Then the heat and pressure destroys the gasket. To overcome the problem you should switch from head bolts to head studs and reduce the compression ratio. This doesn't reduce your maximum power by much, because your power output is also limited by heat and the lower compression reduces the heat.

Basically what happens whenever the combustion gets too hot is that nitrogen in the air mixes with the oxygen to form nitrous oxides, which consume the oxygen that would otherwise be used to burn the fuel properly. This in turn limits the amount of actual combustion that takes place. The formation of nitrous oxides also causes a heat spike that can damage the heads, valves, and pistons. So limit the compression, you limit the NOX formation, and you increase the power you can make without ruining something.

Between twin and single turbo, the twins will spool faster if properly sized. If you have a model with separate O2 sensors on each bank, the twins are actually easier to set up in some ways, because otherwise you are stuck running the turbo after the y-pipe comes together, and that means lag (how much lag varies by the turbo) and it means that oil pressure in the bearing can get too high resulting in oil leaking past the turbo seals. You want the turbos mounted higher and closer to the engine. Higher means the oil will gravity drain properly, and closer to the motor means your tube runs are all shorter, and that means boost builds faster and throttle response is quicker. If the model
 

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I've read it a long time ago, and again just now, and fail to see it's relevance to this topic. This actually falls into the category of posts I asked not to happen in the beginning, by basically only explaining the concept of FI. Right now we're debating turbo choice, and I'm trying to find out if 12 psi intercooled will vent my headgaskets if 3.0 vulcan rangers can run 17 psi, and apparently up to 20 psi with water injection which is about the point where the pistons and/or rods melt. I apologize if I skipped over that part of the article.

@ 84FordMan: I'm only going twin turbo if it's easier, which is almost not going to be the case. As much fun as it would be to say "I've got a twin turbo Sable" I think single turbo is just as ludicrous.
Here is some videos of a ludicrous single turbo Taurus:

The video's are a few years old and the newer version of the car has much more power.

I would consider if I were you to use a duratec DOHC V6 as a starting point because the engine can flow much more air than vulcan V6. The Duratec V6 used in Noble output as much as 400hp. You also may want to consider a rear mounted single turbo setup.

Bob
 

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I would not touch that turbo with a 10ft pole. You need to spend money on a decent turbo. Not a cheep china turbo. If you want to get a used one that fine but even then you need to be careful.

As mentioned headers are not needed for a single turbo.

If you are going to do it on a budget, don't go cheap. Take the time to get the correct parts and don't be cheap. It will prevent problems in the long run. Also read up some turbo books and map out the correct turbo.


Between twin and single turbo, the twins will spool faster if properly sized. If you have a model with separate O2 sensors on each bank, the twins are actually easier to set up in some ways, because otherwise you are stuck running the turbo after the y-pipe comes together, and that means lag (how much lag varies by the turbo) and it means that oil pressure in the bearing can get too high resulting in oil leaking past the turbo seals. You want the turbos mounted higher and closer to the engine. Higher means the oil will gravity drain properly, and closer to the motor means your tube runs are all shorter, and that means boost builds faster and throttle response is quicker. If the model
All of the turbo SHO's run singles and do just fine which I am doing. Twins will allow for quicker spooling but you can get a single turbo to not lag much especially properly sized.
 
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