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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Have I said it all? Even "Motorcraft parts" are coming from 3rd world countries and they are garbage! You cannot get 100,000 miles off a car without some cheap sensor failing causing you thousands of dollars to replace with the same garbage from the 3rd world. A $10 sensor can cost you thousands! Do we have to be rich to own a car such as people just lease and pay a fortune to never pay for repairs---is it coming to that point when everyone should lease and throw the old car off a cliff?:angry:
 

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Quite the rant. I cannot help but disagree with you completely. Name me parts they make coming from third world countries. Last I checked, most Motorcraft parts are made in the US, Canada, Germany, etc. Depends on the part of course. Even if it is made in some foreign country, it doesn't get the Motorcraft stamp unless it meets the proper requirements.

You really haven't said anything, all you did was rant. So what is your situation?
 

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sometimes it just helps to rant a little bit so hope you feel better :rolleyes2:

FWIW, I have not had to replace the CPS, TPS, EGR, MAF, or DPFE sensors in my '67 Mustang...
 

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If you get the service manual and do the diagnosing yourself you can save at least a little bit of your sanity. You kind of have to be "one" with the car as far as keeping track of quirks and malfunctions. However, stuff always needs fixing whether you like it or not. You can either have a maintenance budget every month as a car payment, or you can pay monthly for a new car that can be re-possessed and still costs you money in repairs.
 

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You cannot get 100,000 miles off a car without some cheap sensor failing causing you thousands of dollars to replace with the same garbage from the 3rd world. A $10 sensor can cost you thousands! Do we have to be rich to own a car such as people just lease and pay a fortune to never pay for repairs---is it coming to that point when everyone should lease and throw the old car off a cliff?:angry:
Well, it used to be that a car would be completely shot by 100,000 miles. Now a $10 sensor is shot at 100K. Which sensor cost you thousands? Cars are much more reliable than they used to be, and they start in all temperatures. Remember carburetors? They only worked right on moderate days, and the fuel distribution was uneven. The diapragm fuel pump would fail and spray gas all over the place. How about points? They had to be adjusted every 10K or so. Older hoses would last 30K. They didn't have wheel well shields, so the fenders would fall off from rust in 10 years (or less). I could go on and on, but you get the idea. I'll take a newer car any day.
 

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Well, it used to be that a car would be completely shot by 100,000 miles. Now a $10 sensor is shot at 100K. Which sensor cost you thousands? ....... I'll take a newer car any day.
Egiroux makes a good point. Dad's 1970 Ford LTD was worn out at 100,000. The '72 Gran Torino Sport I had a few years later didn't even make it that long before it was in poor mechanical condition (which in large part was MY fault for spanking it so hard!). Meanwhile, I've had a '79 Grand Prix and a '90 Cutlass Supreme make it past 200,000 miles, and the '98 Sienna my wife now drives has over 276,000 miles on it and I'd gladly leave for a road trip in it tomorrow morning. Our '03 Taurus has only 111,000 miles on it but with a recent transmission rebuild and the Vulcan's reliability I'm good for a long time! (Umm, was the AX4N built in America?).

T_Swenson was exactly right, you have to be "one" with the car to stay ahead of its quirks, and by doing so, you can usually fix a little problem before it turns into a big one. (The Vulcan's cam synchronizer is an extreme example).

But Toronut's comments do remind me of something very disturbing. About ten years ago, when I was working at a Dana plant making frames for the P221 (F-150) and U222 (Expedition/Navigator) platforms, our plant manager said his contacts at Ford had said that by some year (I don't recall when), a crazy percentage of Ford's Tier One supply would be coming from China. Fortunately, I don't think we're seeing that yet, and perhaps so much has changed that we never will.
 

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You used to have to replace mufflers every two years or so on any car pre mid 1980's - at least any I've ever owned. And I haven't replaced one since.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
:(My apologies for my "rant"! I agree that most stuff (parts) is reasonable in a competitive market but there is a lot of items out there that is a gouging insult to anyone with intelligence. Particularly the Stealerships! Many parts are particularly overpriced, especially modules or sensors that contain no expensive components nor value. This is called monopoly and they charge what they like. When you buy a new car the Dealer profit is not very much. They screw you on labor and parts. The more that vehicles get swamped in modules and gizmos the happier ther Stealerships become. As time goes on, vehicles are becoming more complex and dificult to work on. Look at that 2010 Taurus with Echo boost?? Yikes! Throw away your toolbox and buy 100,000 mile warranty (hope you are rich).
 

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I think its also safe to say that a newer car is probably easier to total out than an older car, due to additional airbags, as well as integration of bumpers into the vehicle, so you essentially have a front fascia. Not much room between end of car and air conditioning systems (pricey components), etc. List goes on...
 

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Here's an analogy for you. Letters used to be made with a typewriter. Most people with basic mechanical ability could fix one if something jammed, etc. You could only make one copy at a time. It was loud and clunky. You could not delete entire paragraphs if you changed your mind. You could not put one in your pocket. You could not upload what you typed to the Internet like I am about to do. Now we all have PCs and phones that can do much more. However, you need technical abilities to repair and upgrade them. Now cars can diagnose themselves, always perform well, and can tell you where to make your next turn based on satellite signals(and even avoid traffic jams). It's just the march of technology.
 

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Lets take an example of why I disagree somewhat. A throttle position sensor is basically a potentiometer. It typically has a power source, a ground, and a needle that slides along a carbon metallic resistor. An aftermarket version will be set to the specified minimum and maximum resistance values ±5%. The OE part uses a similar design, except the carbon metallic layer is thicker, and the tolerances are tighter, they use a ±1% resistors. That means if the resitor is not within 1% of the target value, the part is rejected, and will likely be reused in another application where tolerances need not be so strict, i.e. cheaper electronics, or an aftermarket TPS.

The coolant temp sender is another example. It may seem like a simple thermister, but Ford quality control rejects them is the resistance is not a certain value at a controlled temperature. Aftermarket ones are not nearly so strict, so the chances of getting one thats bad out of the box is actually pretty high.

The thermostat is another example. I went through several aftermarket thermostats on my 1994 van. The original one went bad after about 150,000 miles. I replaced it with a Stant, a well known aftermarket brand. It worked for a few weeks, before it began acting like the old bad one, it would open way too soon, preventing the vehicle from warming up properly. I replaced it again with a Napa, same story, it worked only a short while before it started overcooling. I replaced it with a dealer one, which was only marginally more expensive, and it has worked perfectly ever since.
 

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Lets take an example of why I disagree somewhat. A throttle position sensor is basically a potentiometer. It typically has a power source, a ground, and a needle that slides along a carbon metallic resistor. An aftermarket version will be set to the specified minimum and maximum resistance values ±5%. The OE part uses a similar design, except the carbon metallic layer is thicker, and the tolerances are tighter, they use a ±1% resistors. That means if the resitor is not within 1% of the target value, the part is rejected, and will likely be reused in another application where tolerances need not be so strict, i.e. cheaper electronics, or an aftermarket TPS.

The coolant temp sender is another example. It may seem like a simple thermister, but Ford quality control rejects them is the resistance is not a certain value at a controlled temperature. Aftermarket ones are not nearly so strict, so the chances of getting one thats bad out of the box is actually pretty high.

The thermostat is another example. I went through several aftermarket thermostats on my 1994 van. The original one went bad after about 150,000 miles. I replaced it with a Stant, a well known aftermarket brand. It worked for a few weeks, before it began acting like the old bad one, it would open way too soon, preventing the vehicle from warming up properly. I replaced it again with a Napa, same story, it worked only a short while before it started overcooling. I replaced it with a dealer one, which was only marginally more expensive, and it has worked perfectly ever since.
So you are saying that you should replace parts with quality components. Agreed 100%.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
:mellow:OK See the post somewhere where a proud owner of a new 3.5 Duratec needed a new waterpump! Over $1500 because of labor to remove other engine parts to replace something worth $50 or so. I think it was done under warranty. As for DIYI , Ugh! I rather buy a vehicle that can be DIYI. It's getting bad! Manufacturers hate the DIY Doods and do everything they can to screw you with obscure bolt sizes and Dealer only parts. It's getting to the point of a car being a disposable item designed for maybe 100'000 miles then is junked by the manufacturer who is set up to make you buy a new car that you cannot touch , nor buy parts for. The days of old are gone!
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Are there still Shops out there that would charge an old lady for a new carbureter for her Taurus??
 
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