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Discussion Starter #1
Does anyone know of a company that makes these brass flaps that screw into the shaft of the throttle body ? This piece is the first thing to wear out and it causes a high idle condition. Which in turn gives you crappy gas mileage and is hard on your brakes.
 

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More than likely there is carbon behind it that is keeping it from closing all the way.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Well you are both wrong. There is no such thing as an aftermarket TB. The only thing to wear out on them is that brass circle that is the flap. I will take a pic of the one that was in my car and you'll see what I mean.
 

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Originally posted by Intelliforce@Feb 25 2004, 11:04 PM
Well you are both wrong. There is no such thing as an aftermarket TB. The only thing to wear out on them is that brass circle that is the flap. I will take a pic of the one that was in my car and you'll see what I mean.
How does the butterfly wear out? It isn't physically in contact with anything.


Unless...

Hey. Wait a minute? Are you that same guy who honed his intake manifolds by pouring sand into the intake at WOT?
 

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Intelliforce,

Definately take a picture, I will host it for you if you need. Be sure the measure the diameter of the old plate verses the new plate.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Yes they do really wear out. When I was at the bone yard trying to find one for my car I noticed they all had the same problem. They all wear out in the same spot and they cause air to leak through. I will go to the shop today to grab my old one and I will post a pic. I ripped my off of a 3.8. I knew they had to be good for something.
 
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Proper throttle plates should have a slight elliptical shape to them, and also be angled on the edges. If that's what you're seeing it's not wear.
 

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They ar edesigned to wear out, thats why they are brass. The softer brass wears out before teh TB itself gets scored. Much cheaper to replace flapper than TB but I don't know where to get them
 

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I have never in all my years seen a wore out throttle plate. What is causing it to wear?????
 

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Originally posted by Bob Gervais@Feb 26 2004, 10:38 AM
Proper throttle plates should have a slight elliptical shape to them, and also be angled on the edges. If that's what you're seeing it's not wear.
Hmmm.....Are the plates longer parallel to the shaft or perpendicular to the shaft?
 

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Sounds like your E-Ram broke a fin and chewed up the TB plate.

I fail to see how a throttle plate gets "worn out" by filtered air flowing over it. It's not as though it's getting sandblasted. The only thing I could see getting worn out is the bearings the shaft rotates on, the TPS, or carbon build up (and even that's questionable). Hmmmm....


-mobiuslogic
 
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Originally posted by SableOHC+Feb 26 2004, 01:18 PM-->QUOTE (SableOHC @ Feb 26 2004, 01:18 PM)
<!--QuoteBegin-Bob Gervais
@Feb 26 2004, 10:38 AM
Proper throttle plates should have a slight elliptical shape to them, and also be angled on the edges.  If that's what you're seeing it's not wear.
Hmmm.....Are the plates longer parallel to the shaft or perpendicular to the shaft? [/b]
Perpendicular usually, on a round TB.

Before we jump on the guy, i suppose it could happen. When the throttle closes, the plate rests against the inside of the TB bore. If you look inside one, and open the throttle, you will be able to see the shiny spot where the throttle plate contacts.

I agree with Paul, I've never seen one wear out, and AFAIK it's not a standard replacement item, nor would I know where to get one. My guess is that if it is worn, the only way to repair it is to either fabricate one, or swap the TB for another that's not worn.

I trust Paul when he says "in all his years". Gotta have respect for a guy that was there to witness the invention of dirt.
 

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I am thinking that I might have the same problem as this man.
I have had a high idle for the longest time that I can't figure out, tried everything outside of a new engine. This sounds like it might be the ticket. I can't wait to see and get measurements from this good man.

I can understand the plate wearing out, I have been known to use the throttle quite a bit, like a true race car driving, opening and closeing it like none other. I am thinking this guy might have been driving like a race car driver as well.
 

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The throttle plate should not be contacting the side to any extent. The up and down measurement should be a bit larger than the actual opening. This lets it stop and close while not being straight up and down. Perhaps some adjustment to this is needed.

A way to test it, assuming no other vacuum leaks, is to disconnect the IAC while the car is running and warmed up. This should kill the motor. If enough air is leaking past the throttle plate to allow the car to continue running then I would suspect a problem. But would look else where first.

I remember Fred Flinstone complaining of this once. Seems he was wearing his feet out trying to keep the car from creeping forward at a stop sign.........




:ttiwwop:
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Ok. I have the pic for you guys to look at.





Notice the wear on the left side. The flap was clearing becoming part of the shaft. The shaft bushings were excellent so this was an easy fix for me. With this little bit of wear the rpms when hot were about 1200 rpm. Just about every 3.0 I was looking at in the bone yard had the same problem. Some were really bad. My good one came out of a 93 Taurus with a 3.8. If anyone is going to change one you just have to match up the letter stamped on the flap. Mine is a B which has no hole. I was seeing letters anywhere from A to N. All of them except B had holes of different sizes drilled in them.

When taking the screws for the flap out you have to be extra careful. When they put these things together they crimped the thraeded end of the screws. So when the screws are coming out the last part is tight and it leaves metal shavings behind.
 

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Well s***. He's right.


I took the TB from my old engine off the shelf and began playing with it. In the closed position, I checked for any axial play, and there was none. I then checked for axial play in the WOT position, and wouldn't you know it...

About 1.5mm end to end!!!


My bearing was tight enough that I had to manualy move the shaft from side to side in order to notice anything, but with a worn bearing, or in a car that sees frequent changes in throttle position from WOT and back to closed, or anywhere in between, the pictures shown above would definitely be an end result.
 

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I would still like to know how these are wearing. I have three cars all with well over 100k and none have any noticeable wear on this plate. The '93 SHO has close to 200k on it and the '91 Festiva has over 165k.

Is there carbon build up behind the plate?
 

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Originally posted by SHOZ123@Feb 27 2004, 10:40 AM
I would still like to know how these are wearing. I have three cars all with well over 100k and none have any noticeable wear on this plate. The '93 SHO has close to 200k on it and the '91 Festiva has over 165k.

Is there carbon build up behind the plate?
Paul, there was not enough carbon on the throttle body anywhere that would hinder movement of the plate.

My throttle body isn't worn, either. The axial play was nil at closed, but significant at WOT. I think what is happening is that at WOT, the plate moves sideways along the shaft, and as the throttle is closed, the plate rubs the side of the throttle body bore, wearing the plate a little bit at a time. The end result is the image that is posted above.
 
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