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Originally posted by silvapain+Apr 7 2004, 10:18 AM-->QUOTE (silvapain @ Apr 7 2004, 10:18 AM)
<!--QuoteBegin-95SE
@Apr 6 2004, 01:23 AM
I belive that 90% of the FWD trans failure is due to the factory shift programming.
The AX4S failures were because of an Aluminum clutch piston, IIRC. In general, most ATX's fail because of too much heat, derived from the programming. To get smoother shifts, the EEC has the torue convertor slowly engage after a shift. This creates alot of heat. Having a stacked plate trans cooler, and reprogramming the EEC will greatly extend the life of the tranny.

What stall speed torque convertor are you planning on using?[/b]
Actually, you and Jeramie are only partially correct.


There are two popular failure modes for the AXOD family, both of which are correctable with new parts and a full and proper Transgo kit installation.

The first mode is valve body/line pressure related and often aggrevated by the "factory tranny programming". The overtly-long shifts commanded from the stock EEC line pressure tables and adder functions are what give you that "soft and comfortable" shift feel - they also cause excessive and premature clutch material wear and heat build-up in the clutch assemblies. Combine this with a weak 1-2 aluminum forward clutch piston (which can crack) and other valve body inefficiencies and you can end up with bumps, slides, harsh shifts, lost gears, kickdown runaways, nuetral drops from a stop and failure for the tranny to shift from one gear to the next at WOT, etc.

The second failure mode common to the AXOD family is planetary failure due to lack of sufficient lubrication to the planetary gearset and related components. A full and proper installation of a TransGo kit as previously noted will correct this situation and allow a lot more fluid in to directly lubricate the planetary gearset where it's needed instead of it being flung around places where it's not, like Ford gave us from the factory. Planetary cracking and failure due to insufficient lube is what killed the "factory upgraded" '95 ATX in my SHO.

I do think you're on a good track here, Jeramie, but I wouldn't stop at taking your SLO core up to "just" SHO standards, especially with the kind of power that you'll be making. Have a look-see at this rebuild info that I've been passing around the SHOforum, et al. and see if you can make use of any of it. Going with harder steels, better clutch materials (Borg-Warner or kevlar-type clutches and bands are great here) and better-quality gearsets will net you the best result when combined with a full TransGo calibration and upgrade, IMO.


Last but not least, best of luck on the upgrade. Sounds like a kick-a$$ project!
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
Yep, I found that article in my search. I bow down to you for sharing that!!


I knew the '95 already has the larger factory lube feed tubes, but could still benefit from the lube mods. The lube mods seem to be standard practice during a rebuild in all AXOD variants, regardless of the year (shift kit or no shift kit)..

I'm having trouble deciding on weather or not to go with the trans-go kit. Alberto says he can firm up my shifts with the chip, but I wish I could ride in a car done each way.

Borg Warner clutches seem to be the best we can get, huh? I've rebuild quite a few RWD AOD's and 4R70W's, and you can get Alto Red Eagle clutches for those. But the newest found glory for the AOD's and 4R70W's is to use the factory '98+ friction materials, which are even better than the aftermarket ones. They use some new sort of material that just doesn't seem to wear as quickly as the early material. I wonder if ford just happened to use this same material on some of the newer FWD transaxles?? Wouldn't that be cool!

Also, I know that on an AOD/4R70W trans, you can machine down the direct and forward clutch pistons (and pressure plate if needed) to fit in extra clutches. I think this can be done to the AX4S as well. If so that would mean 6 or maybe even 7 clutches in the direct and forward clutch drums, if SHO drums were used.

Axianator, in that article is says to use an E4OD overdrive roller clutch (many times improperly referred to as a "sprag") as a heavy duty upgrade.. Problem is, Ford lists like 3 different part numbers for the E4OD overdrive roller clutch, depending on the year.. Do you know which one to use???

Thanks,

Jeramie
 

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Its nice to see another big project that is actually going to be grtting done and not just talked about. I wish ya luck! Dont forget to make many pics and post often on it!
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
I have a habit of making things happen! As soon as I hit the dyno again with my Thunderbird SC it will be back in the top 10 most powerful SC list!!

Also, you may have noticed the silver 1992 Taurus doing the burnout on the front page of the Ford Taurus Performance Page http://green.lucidgreen.com/taurus/, well that was me! And that picture was taken 7 years ago.. Man how time flies..

That car had a vulcan 3.0L with ported and decked heads and matched intake manifolds, as well as a take off SHO catback exhaust... Since I wrecked that car I've owned a 1990 taurus GL, a 1991 SHO, and now to my current collection (1992 Thunderbird SC, and the 1995 Taurus SE)..

Something about making a non-mustang Ford vehicle fast just tickles me I guess.


Jeramie
 

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So you are the infamous Jeramie Schall (I thought that was you, I just wasn't sure). FWIW, the honor is definitely mine here, considering all the things that you contributed to the community back in the "good ol' days" - nice to have you here. And I do agree with you - there's nothing like making heads turn in a 10+ year-old family car.


QUOTE
Yep, I found that article in my search. I bow down to you for sharing that!![/b]
Credit must go first to Randy Crist for writing that article and second to Tom Wallenhorst for sending it to me. I was in a tizzy last November when my '95 ATX took an unexpected dump at 135k, trying to find as much good rebuild info as I could before rebuilding commenced at the tranny shop. Tom was one of several people who were gracious enough to share their "bulletproofing" rebuild information with me.

QUOTE
I knew the '95 already has the larger factory lube feed tubes, but could still benefit from the lube mods. The lube mods seem to be standard practice during a rebuild in all AXOD variants, regardless of the year (shift kit or no shift kit)..[/b]
Looks like I learned more than one thing today.


QUOTE
I'm having trouble deciding on weather or not to go with the trans-go kit. Alberto says he can firm up my shifts with the chip, but I wish I could ride in a car done each way.[/b]
It it were me (and I'm siding with Ted Breaux and several others here as well as personal experience), I'd go with a full TransGo kit minus the line pressure increasing mods in the valve body (eg. the "firmer" accumulator springs, etc). Doing so will allow you to benefit from the rest of the improvements from the kit (lube upgrades, etc.) while retaining the factory line pressure levels in the valve body - something that will help give you and Alberto a known (factory) baseline with which to work when creating the program for your chip. As I'm sure you know, it's always better to start at factory "soft" levels in the valve body and work your way firmer via the EEC than it is the other way around.


QUOTE
Borg Warner clutches seem to be the best we can get, huh? I've rebuild quite a few RWD AOD's and 4R70W's, and you can get Alto Red Eagle clutches for those. But the newest found glory for the AOD's and 4R70W's is to use the factory '98+ friction materials, which are even better than the aftermarket ones. They use some new sort of material that just doesn't seem to wear as quickly as the early material. I wonder if ford just happened to use this same material on some of the newer FWD transaxles?? Wouldn't that be cool!

Also, I know that on an AOD/4R70W trans, you can machine down the direct and forward clutch pistons (and pressure plate if needed) to fit in extra clutches. I think this can be done to the AX4S as well. If so that would mean 6 or maybe even 7 clutches in the direct and forward clutch drums, if SHO drums were used.[/b]
It's very possible that the newer Ford clutches and friction materials have been updated to the point of being "better" than the Borg-Warner variety. Since I'm not a tranny expert or full-time rebuilder, though, I can't say for sure. Perhaps our own Mike Kopstain can shed some light on the the Borg-Warner vs. newer Ford clutch question (he was another person who offered rebuild info to me back in November and let me know about the new kevlar clutches).

QUOTE
Axianator, in that article is says to use an E4OD overdrive roller clutch (many times improperly referred to as a "sprag") as a heavy duty upgrade.. Problem is, Ford lists like 3 different part numbers for the E4OD overdrive roller clutch, depending on the year.. Do you know which one to use???[/b]
That's something that you or I would have to ask Randy or another knowledgeable tranny rebuilder, as I'm not sure of the exact part number. Assuming you're working with a dealership or parts house that will let you order several parts without paying for them, maybe you can work with your parts guy, have him order several from their warehouse and then compare them to Randy's specs (34 elements vs. the 26 typical for the AXOD-E, etc)?
 
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Originally posted by Axianator@Apr 8 2004, 03:27 AM
So you are the infamous Jeramie Schall! I thought that was you, I just wasn't sure. The honor is definitely mine, considering all the things that you contributed to the community back in the "good ol' days". I do agree with you - there's nothing like making heads turn in a 10+ year-old family car.


I had no idea actually. Nice to have you around!
 
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