[95se]

Been thinking about this for a long time, and was originally going to follow in DMX's footsteps with the supercharged setup (especially since I have all the parts, and the fact that I own a supercoupe!)

But I have since decided that a stroker engine might be more reliable, and a little easier to set up than the SC setup. I honestly think I can get 300hp out of it. Oh, and for a fraction of the cost it would take an SHO to get 300hp, and with lots more torque than a SHO will every see naturally aspirated.

Here's the plan:

4.2L truck crankshaft
Eagle Forged 5140 I beam rods
Ross Forged flat top .030 over pistons (10.1:1 compression)
Block and heads decked .005
Ford MLS steel headgaskets
Steigemeyer Racing heads (best flowing single port 3.8L heads in existance)
.540 lift cam 224/224 114* LSA
port matched and enlarged lower intake manifold
cut and welded upper intake with shortened runners and 70mm tb
24lb FMS fuel injectors
190lph fuel pump
C&L 73mm MAF
Custom Tune

All followed by a dyno session at Dyno Pro's in Denver, Colorado so we can see what its really worth! Pics and vids will be taken.

I will be running the car on the dyno next month to see what the stock 3.8L is putting down.

So what about the "wimpy" transaxle you say? I've got two AX4S transmissions torn down side by side, one from a SHO and one from a SLO. You can't use the SHO trans in a SLO, but I think you may be able to retrofit the SHO internal clutch drums into a SLO AX4S case. The SHO uses an extra clutch in the direct and forward clutch drums, which should be sufficient with a modified valve body and/or computer mods to recalibrate the shift strategy.

I belive that 90% of the FWD trans failure is due to the factory shift programming.

Comments, suggestions?

Didn't mean to knock the SHO above, I used to have a '91 SHO and loved it, its just too damn expensive to get much more power out of. Plus, a 4.3L v6 will have a 1 Litre advantage over the SHO, and these heads will outflow a stock SHO head too. Though rest assured, a 4.3L will never rev like the SHO, but it won't have to with all the torque.

Jeramie

 

[alex_perry]

i'm impressed to see a mod with thought!

are you working with a morana kit?

 

[sixfofalcon]

What year SHO is that AX4S from? I thought they had only used the AX4N in SHOs ever since the AXOD was discontinued.

I was thinking about having my 3.4L stroked to 4.0L. I don't know the numbers that the 4.0L SHOs are putting out, but I'm told the increase in torque is very impressive.

It's gonna be a while before I go down that route though. Too many other projects (resuming work on the Falcon, buying a house, getting married, etc.)

Best of luck to you... it looks like you have done more than a little research.

 

[Guest]

Awesome! Sounds like you really gave this some serious thought. Best of luck!

Can't wait to see the results!

 

[tjm73]

Does sound well thought out. Don't for get the 4.2 Truck engine is internally balenced while the 3.8 is externally balenced. At least in rear drive applications. Is front drive application internal or external balence?

 

[95se]

It won't matter what it was, the engine will be completely balanced by pro built in Denver, they did all the machine work and balance work on my 400hp 3.8L SC engine (well dyno results were 330.5 rwhp and 402.8 rwtq) I can use an aftermarket BHJ balancer that was made for the internally balanced supercoupe, and just machine it down to the correct offset for the taurus crank pully. Fred runs this on his 4.3L stroker SC with no problems. And its as smooth as a babys a**!

The balance shaft has to go because of this. I can just use a rwd cam spacer in place of the balancer drive gear.

Also, all V6 SHO's '93-'95 used the AX4S trans, all V8 SHO's used the AX4N.

Alex, I'm not working with a morana kit. I'm piecing the setup together myself. I'm working with Fred4pt3 over at SCCoA. aka Dr. Fred. He's gotten a bad rep because in the past because of his cams. He sent them off to be reground and the guy basically screwed him and didn't return the cam cores. He's still a good guy, and he has a 4.3L stroked Thunderbird SC putting out over 600 ft/lbs of tq and damn near 500hp. His crankshaft was a brand new billet crank that cost him $4,500, because surely the cast 4.2L crank won't hold up to those numbers.

Also. I've decied against the C&L maf, I'm gonna go with the L-MAF 80mm instead.

Jeramie

 

[spragers]

to you if you see this project to the end!

 

[silvapain]

Originally posted by 95SE@Apr 6 2004, 01:23 AM
I belive that 90% of the FWD trans failure is due to the factory shift programming.

The AX4S failures were because of an Aluminum clutch piston, IIRC. In general, most ATX's fail because of too much heat, derived from the programming. To get smoother shifts, the EEC has the torue convertor slowly engage after a shift. This creates alot of heat. Having a stacked plate trans cooler, and reprogramming the EEC will greatly extend the life of the tranny.

What stall speed torque convertor are you planning on using?

 

[shoz123]

Originally posted by SixFoFalcon@Apr 6 2004, 10:35 AM
I was thinking about having my 3.4L stroked to 4.0L. I don't know the numbers that the 4.0L SHOs are putting out, but I'm told the increase in torque is very impressive.

They have 4.0L SHOs??? <_<

 

[alex_perry]

Originally posted by SHOZ123+Apr 7 2004, 12:44 PM-->QUOTE (SHOZ123 @ Apr 7 2004, 12:44 PM)

<!--QuoteBegin-SixFoFalcon

@Apr 6 2004, 10:35 AM


I was thinking about having my 3.4L stroked to 4.0L.  I don't know the numbers that the 4.0L SHOs are putting out, but I'm told the increase in torque is very impressive. 

They have 4.0L SHOs??? <_< [/b]

yeah, shoshop has stroker kits available. the biggest i've heard of though, is 3.6.

 

[SableOHC]

Sounds like a great project. I'm in Denver, let me know if you need a hand.
-Bill

 

[Guest]

Excellent project! I was curious, is there a proposed budget for this? I know, a lot of times things go over budget, but is there a number you had in mind?

I have a 93 3.8 GL with blown headgaskets that I'm really undecided what to do with. The car was free, and it's not in bad shape at all, so it's a good project car so far.

I was thinking of going the SC route, but like you, I'd rather have all motor power.

I've looked around at different sites, like Morana and Super Six Motorsports. We all know of Morana, but what's your opinion of Super Six? Anything worthwhile?

And Paul, yes there are 4.0l SHOs. SHOFast makes them, I think. On a related note though, Kreitemeyer must be up to at least 3.5l with all the honing he's had to do on the #1 cylinder.

 

[shoz123]

I wasn't aware the SHOfast had gotten a 4L running.

 

[Guest]

Originally posted by SHOZ123@Apr 7 2004, 12:08 PM
I wasn't aware the SHOfast had gotten a 4L running.

Neither am I, but I know it was talked about quite a bit.

 

[sixfofalcon]

Originally posted by Bob Gervais+Apr 7 2004, 01:14 PM-->QUOTE (Bob Gervais @ Apr 7 2004, 01:14 PM)

<!--QuoteBegin-SHOZ123

@Apr 7 2004, 12:08 PM
I wasn't aware the SHOfast had gotten a 4L running.

Neither am I, but I know it was talked about quite a bit.

[/b]

I spoke to Brad on the phone a couple months ago about LSDs for the V8's AX4N. I also asked him how the stroker project was going. He said there were a couple (or maybe it was "a few") of them on the road. He said they had LOTS of torque. I didn't ask about dyno numbers. I don't know if there is a "kit" per se... maybe they are one-offs at this stage. Only one way to find out...

 

[shoz123]

Find it hard to believe. If they were out there and successfully done there would be plenty of talk about them.

What Brad says carries little value to me.

 

[alex_perry]

was the 4l stroker from a 3.2 or 3.4? i cant see the 3.2 v6 becoming 4l...

 

[sixfofalcon]

Yeah, the conversation was a bit vague, but not so much that I would call

without knowing the guy or seeing proof one way or the other. I've wondered why the owners of the 4L strokers wouldn't post on one of the many forums, or join in on the mailing list. Maybe they don't appreciate getting 200 emails/PMs a day?

The 4.0L stroker would be (or is) the 3.4L.

 

[95se]

QUOTE

QUOTE (95SE @ Apr 6 2004, 01:23 AM)


I belive that 90% of the FWD trans failure is due to the factory shift programming.




The AX4S failures were because of an Aluminum clutch piston, IIRC. In general, most ATX's fail because of too much heat, derived from the programming. To get smoother shifts, the EEC has the torue convertor slowly engage after a shift. This creates alot of heat. Having a stacked plate trans cooler, and reprogramming the EEC will greatly extend the life of the tranny.

What stall speed torque convertor are you planning on using?[/b]

Very True! I didn't think of that because the '95 models already use the steel fwd clutch piston.

Not sure on the stall yet.. I might go with a rebuilt stock unit, depending on what the dyno looks like. I plan to run my current trans/converter for the dyno run and maybe for awhile before doing the rebuild trans. After all the car only has 52k miles on it, and has been spoiled with a stacked plate trans cooler and amsoil ATF since 40k..

Bill, email me at [email protected] if you are interested in joining us at Dyno Pro's in denver in May. I plan to run the taurus with the stock 3.8l, and also plan to see what my supercoupe can pull since I added the long tube headers and magnaport supercharger, I'll s*** if it hits 400 rwhp, but I doubt it! IF you wanted to run your car on the dyno, its $50 for 3 baseline pulls. Might be a few local SHO guys there too, as well as a healthy Thunderbird SC crowd.

 

[95se]

Also, what are our options for tq converters?? Does anyone make a higher stall converter? If so, who?

Bob, I'm budgeting $3 grand, but I'm doing all of the labor (except for machining) myself. I will be porting the intakes myself, as well as doing something with the exhaust (another thread will appear soon on this).

That's with the Super Six Motorsports Super heads, if I decide to go with the Steigemeyer heads it would be about another $1,000..

Steigemeyer racing's heads are the best flowing, bar none.. However, the Super Six motorsports heads are the best flowing heads for the money. They aren't far behind Steigemeyer's heads, at less than half price. Plus they have better low lift flows (essentailly more velocity) which in a way is worth more than flow volume on a naturally aspirated engine. That's why the stock 3.8L makes so much torque is because, though the heads flow like crap, they have very high flow velocity (meaning the air rushes faster into the engine)

The Steigemeyer heads flow so well that I don't think I could ever take advantage of them naturally aspirated. You can only get so much air into an engine, unless you use forced induction (or Nitrous). That's why the Steig. heads are so popular in the supercoupe world!

We had a guy here in Denver that already has a CNC program for the 3.8L heads on a serdi cut machine, and did awesome 5 angle valve jobs. He also did some killer porting, unfortionately he has fallen ill and isn't doing work anymore.

Jeramie