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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Come to find out I have both front subframe bushing/bolt not holding the subframe in place.

I'm out of my element here. I've never dealt with this before. So, this is out of my experience. If your able to lend a hand by giving me some advice with this it would be appreciated.

here is a picture that I can refer to. https://www.taurusclub.com/forum/attachments/suspension-handling-brakes/50241d1194490058-subframe-bushings-package-subframe.jpg

I have just started on this project. I'm working on getting that black plastic shield out of the way. I have one bolt that seems to be rusted in place. I stripped the head and it still doesn't move with a vise grip. the capture nut moves a bit, but only about a quarter turn. it is one of the larger bolts. one of the 8 mm (at least on my car) bolts that is towards the rear of the shield and car.

I'm just going to grind the head of the bolt off so I can remove the shield and get to the bigger problem of the subframe bushing/bolts. But, if someone has a better way to get it off, I'm listening. And, if you have a suggestion on where to get replacements, I'm going to need some.

The rusted bolt is on the driver's side. So, I was able to get shield out of way and get a look at the passenger side of things. Looks like the lower bushing rusted/deteriorated so bad the metal (I hope there was at one time) portion that held the bolt in is gone. And the bolt was just pulled through what was left (the rubberized part).

Looks like those 4 nuts are still there holding a ring to the subframe. Have a suggestion for removing those?

I could see the subframe bolt still there. There was a few inches of bolt shank showing. So, the bolt and retaining nut are still there. But, I don't know if the upper bushing parts (shim and etc) are still there. And, I haven't seen the driver's side yet.

When I do I will take some pictures. let me know if you have questions. I will help you help me as much as I can because I sure need help with this.

here is in my opinion a good posting about this issue. it is a bit old but still helpful.
https://www.taurusclub.com/forum/118-suspension-handling-brakes/128745-subframe-bushings-package.html

hope to hear from you
 

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Discussion Starter #4
8mm bolt on shield

Here is a picture of what I called the plastic shield. The slot just above the tape is where the rusted bolted was. Did some more twisting back and forth and I was able to get it out with a vise grips. Have bigger issues to deal with right now. Still should get some newer ones.

if you know where I could get some inexpensively, I'd like to know?

first pic is the shield, next is the clip on nut, and last is the bolts
 

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Discussion Starter #5
passenger's side

I have just part of the lower subframe bushing still attached to the subframe. And, the subframe bolt is still there. But, I don't know if other components are missing also.

The bolt looks like it still has the interior metal portion of the lower subframe bushing rusting away with it.

What is good way to get those old nuts and bolt off?

Have a good suggestion for what components I need to get?

Seem like the earlier post that I mentioned, they said that the rear upper and lower bushings could also be used on the front. Is that so?

not the best photos, so if you need something better, I'll see what I can do
 

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First step is to take those four nuts off and loosen the plate from the subframe bushing from the subframe. You can use a six point socket and breaker bar and snap the bolts loose. The new bushing may or may not come with those nuts but they are cheap. Once you separate the bushing plate and the subframe then start cleaning and assessing the condition of the subframe. Don't think the front bushings come with the large bolt but the back ones do.



You need to spray penetrating oil in the hole of the unibody to soak the subframe bolt and captured nut. A little heat on the bolt may help it suck up the oil. I would wait a few days while spraying each day. Then try to unloosen them. You may snap them off but the front captured nuts I believe are easy to reach and replace. Not sure if dealer sells them so you may have to fab them.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
which bolts are you talking about?

there are the subframe bolts and also the bolts on the lower subframe bushing.
 

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which bolts are you talking about?

there are the subframe bolts and also the bolts on the lower subframe bushing.

The four bolts on the subframe bushing you can snap and it won't hurt you because they are attached to the bushing plate and you need to replace that anyway. The issue with the large subframe bolts is that most likely the captured nut in the unibody will bend and spin or the bolt will snap. The captured nut is a nut welded to a metal plate and slid into the unibody

cavity, the plate wedges against the sides of the unibody cavity so it doesn't turn.
 

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In my opinion, I would only try taking those larger bolts out after a couple days of soaking in penetrating oil, and then using an impact on them. Making sure that it is a very tight fitting socket, otherwise it will just round out like you already have had happen.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
First step is to take those four nuts off and loosen the plate from the subframe bushing from the subframe. You can use a six point socket and breaker bar and snap the bolts loose. The new bushing may or may not come with those nuts but they are cheap. Once you separate the bushing plate and the subframe then start cleaning and assessing the condition of the subframe. Don't think the front bushings come with the large bolt but the back ones do.



You need to spray penetrating oil in the hole of the unibody to soak the subframe bolt and captured nut. A little heat on the bolt may help it suck up the oil. I would wait a few days while spraying each day. Then try to unloosen them. You may snap them off but the front captured nuts I believe are easy to reach and replace. Not sure if dealer sells them so you may have to fab them.
good advice on removing the rusted nuts. penetrating oil, 6 pt socket, and breaker bar. I use pb blaster. sprayed the nuts today (got one side last night before it got too dark out). So, tomorrow I try to loosen up those nuts. took a wire brush to them before the pb blaster and they don't look all that bad, at least on the outside. if they loosen or the bolts break the nuts are off. it isn't like I'm trying to save them. the worse thing that could happen is I strip the nuts. I don't think that will happen.

as far as the subframe bolts I'm going to wait before getting to them. with the subframe lowered I have better access to the bushing nuts. But that also rotates the engine in the way of the frame access ports. So, I'm going to do the nuts first. raise the subframe into place and put jack stands underneath it. Then work on the bushing bolts when I have better access into the frame access ports.

The subframe bushing that you showed, are there any other componets that I need?
like the shim that is shown in the diagram of my first posting in this thread.
(besides the subframe bolt, the nuts, and some anti seize compound for the bolt threads)

I was able to find a couple subframe bolts at the dealership. wanted $12.50 each.
through o'rielly, I could special order some. but would get 10 for $19.00 plus $8 for shipping. Then have to wait for the shipping and the bolts seemed to only be threaded the last inch. So, would need an accurate length also.

So, my plan is to go with the dealership bolt unless someone has a better deal out there.

the dealership also said the nuts aren't anything special. just to to a hardware store and get the right size.
 

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The bushing nuts aren't special but the captured nuts in the unibody are. Unless you can get a wrench into the unibody to hold that nut, you need a special nut. I did these over five years ago and can't remember if you can see and reach that nut. I also can't remember if you need that "shim in the pic". I can't imagine it would have rusted off the bolt, but I also don't see any marks in the blue paint from the bushing either. Here is a pic of a spare bolt I have. It is a little special being zinc coated and has a step at the head and a non threaded point to start the bolt.
 

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My advise is to cut / torch the head off of the subframe bolt, remove the steel (rust) sleeve from the bolt any way you can (grind, torch, chisel). Now you can actually get to the caged nut interface with the bolt and spray with KROIL. Nothing else!!! Kroil is very expensive for a reason: IT WORKS! Let it work for a day or more before grabbing the bolt shank with vise grips and twist it back and forth in small increments, spraying more Kroil as you go. Don't get greedy by trying to power it out as what we are doing is trying to disintegrate the rust on the threads of the bolt exposed on the end. If you are not careful, you will destroy the nut cage, it will spin for eternity and you will be condemned to Taurus Hell for as long. This nut is NOT available and you will be replacing the unibody (not going to happen). I have accomplished this miserable task many times and this is the most successful way to do it.
 

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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
talk about miserable for sure.

was taking off the 4 nuts for a bushing. wasn't all that hard. till I realized the ring on the underside had pretty much rusted away and the lugs were just turning. was able to grab hold of the lugs with a vise grip. but still one hand on the vise grip, one hand on the wrench, another holding the light, and another holding my glasses on. all the while laying under the car in my driveway. real miserable for sure. and i'm not even to the hard bolts yet.

I don't know how a mechanic gets up in the morning and can't wait to get to work to do another tune up.

any ways, I was able to get the 4 nuts for one bushing off. they looked pretty good too. I could use them again if new ones weren't so cheap. hopefully, the 4 nuts on the other side will go faster now that I have some experience.
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
if I'm able to grind off the head of that bolt. and that isn't going to be easy as it is harden steel. about how hard is it to get that sleeve off. being the bolt just slide into the sleeve, does it pretty just slide off without the head being there?

and without there being much room for a vise gripes, does it take much to get the bolt to move/twist?

does the sleeve get rusted to subframe and bolt making it harder to take off?
 

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Acetone+brake fluid
Acetone+ATF
Acetone+PS fluid


All those fluids keep working metal parts clean and shiny and acetone dissolves gunk.

50-50 mix and cheap--can get it all at a dollar store. Get pure acetone.
 

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if I'm able to grind off the head of that bolt. and that isn't going to be easy as it is harden steel. about how hard is it to get that sleeve off. being the bolt just slide into the sleeve, does it pretty just slide off without the head being there?

and without there being much room for a vise gripes, does it take much to get the bolt to move/twist?

does the sleeve get rusted to subframe and bolt making it harder to take off?

Why do you want to grind the head off the bolt and why do you need to remove the sleeve. If the head is good which it looks good just soak it and use a six point socket and breaker bar. I would heat it with a propane torch if you have one. You will never get a rust bolt like that out with vice grips. Make sure you soak the nut inside the unibody.
 

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Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
those questions came to me in regards to post #15.

how many days should I soak the nut in the unibody?

and by soak, I'm thinking you mean squirt it and get it good and wet. Do you mean something else?

and the subframe bolt still has the internal sleeve of the bushing around it. So, when you say heat it , I'm thinking you mean that sleeve around the bolt. and I'm not sure how much heat will get to the bolt. much less up to the nut. and don't you want to heat up the nut around the bolt to loosen up the rust?

like I said I've never done this before. So, just looking for some good advise to guide me. and you have sure been helpful so far. and I thank you. Just trying to get the car back on the road again.

tomorrow I'm planning on taking the 4 nuts from the bushing from the other side off. then get working on soaking those captive nuts in the frame.
 
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