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Discussion Starter #1
Replaced my starter today. For Jeff K it is from chain beginning with the "0". First replacement in 2011 when wife needed her car for company. They bench tested it and supplied a replacement. I installed the replacement, relatively simple, one battery cable, two electrical connections at the starter, and two starter bolts. There is an alignment pin, so no shims, etc. Tried to start and got a Ziiiiiiing sound as if starter motor was turning but not engaging flywheel. I checked the flywheel, even turned it some. Battery reads 12.7 volts so seems fully charged. This happened several times. I have read here that some parts come out of the box bad, so removed it and took it to a different "O" than the one that had supplied the replacement. They tested it three times and it performed flawlessly. I reinstalled it very carefully to same results. Battery good, connections clean and tight, but cables are 20 years old. Why would it perform OK on the bench, but installed gives me the zing without turning the flywheel??? If the cables are worn or faulty could that keep enough current from kicking out the pinion?

Looked at battery cables and they seem kind of generic. My Taurus has a couple of leads on the positive cable, maybe two on the negative cable, one to ground. How do I handle the extra leads that seem not to be on replacement cable.

Appreciated any ideas, king of stumped right now.

Scott
 

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Bad solenoid on the starter? Remove the starter and use jumper cables from your battery to energize it and see if the gear pops out?
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks for your responses. Today I removed the new starter for the second time to bench test it myself. Yesterday it passed at the auto parts store. Reinstalled with the same results. I mounted it in a heavy vise on the driveway. When energized with jumper cables directly from the battery to the starter it spun at high speed and the pinion gear popped out in the five to six times I tested it. So I am now convinced the starter is OK. Battery was 12.5 volts, battery terminals are tight and clean. I checked the engine oil and there is no coolant in the oil on the dipstick. There is no oil in the coolant. It seems as if the starter is unable to turn the flywheel. Visual inspection while the starter is out did not reveal any chipped or missing teeth. I am now at a dead end. frustrated, discouraged, why can the starter not turn the flywheel? Have I experienced a catastrophic failure??? Thanks for any input.

Scott .
 

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See if the engine will rotate (with some effort) with a ratchet/ socket on the crank bolt.
 

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Can you test and see how much voltage is getting to the starter? Possible issue with positive wire? And what Jeff K said.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks,
I was able to turn the engine by the crankshaft pulley bolt, 21 mm if that helps anyone. I suppose that means the engine is not seized or frozen up. I also checked the voltage at the battery, 12.48 volts, down from 12.6 a day, or two ago from a half dozen or so cranks resulting in the sharp zing with no flywheel turnover. The voltage measured 12.47-12.48 at the solenoid terminal. So probably the positive cable is OK. I also swapped the starter relay and ignition fuse with great hope, but no results. Wondering if I have a bad starter even though it bench tested at the store OK, and I tested in my driveway, seemed to be working?

Scott
 

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Try attaching a ground to the starter case to see if that helps. I seem to remember there is a special bolt you use to establish the starter ground.
 

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Is there a local shop that specializes in Starters & Alternators? The starter may need a more experienced person to examine/test.
 

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cables can get crud and corrosion on the crimps and cause issues. there not that expensive aftermarket.
or get a u pull set. then that will eliminate that possibility. like others have suggested, get a pair or jumper cables or such and hot wire the starter while its bolted into the engine ans see what it does.
 

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I suspect that the issue is in the wiring to the starter. Check grounds, clean all terminal ends on your wires. Your battery voltage is creeping down due to use and sitting without charging. Do you have a charger with a start mode? Start mode may push enough amps in the circuit to overcome deficiencies in the wiring.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Thank you, solved my problem. Everything kept pointing towards the starter Talked to my nephew who is a trained mechanic and he went through battery, cables, wiring, connections, etc. Said if I could turn the engine the starter should as well. I have done exhaustive reading and ran across a post form Jeff K in 2014. Basically he said he had great luck with the more expensive NAPA new starters, So made the decision to buy a new NAPA. Dreaded the first turn of the key after installation, thinking next is tow to a shop. To my amazement it now turns over first and every time. The replacement rebuilt on Monday was bad out of the box. At two different "O" being bench tested and assured it was fine it was indeed not. Not sure I have much faith in bench testing. My nephew tells me the replacement was not able to kick out the pinion gear far enough to engage the flywheel

Scott
 

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If the motorruns but does not turn the engine, likely the solenoid did not push the gear out all the way, but bench testing should have shown that. Other issue, but not tested on normal tests is the one way clutch in the "Bendix" old school term is not working. It is intended to let the engine spin the gear and not over speed the starter motor when the engine first starts. I doubt there is a good way to test that on the bench.
-chart-
 

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And don't assume that because someone works at an auto parts store that they know much about cars.
I can remember waiting at a parts counter where a kid was being somewhat condescending when describing high-tension leads to a customer, whereupon the customer gave the young man a highly technical lecture about the characteristics of said item.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Not to hijack my own thread but yesterday when I made the decision to buy a new starter went to Rock Auto, chose a new starter, AC Delco when attempting to pay the shopping cart it came up as we will not ship to your address because your order attempts to collect sales tax both at the state level as well as municipal. We cannot determine the local tax because we have no local presence in your community. Any one else experience this frustration???
 

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Never heard of that, Scott. Weird!

I have been fixing everything on all my cars for nearly 50 years, and learned (and relearned a few times) to always buy the highest quality parts available the first time. I havent been in any of the local discount parts stores for years. I buy everything I need, including oil, various filters, car wax, etc online from RA, Ebay or Amazon. We have 3 daily drivers for my wife and myself in addition to my 2 80s Thunderbirds, so if a car is down waiting a week for parts to be delivered, it isnt really a big deal for us.
 
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Not to hijack my own thread but yesterday when I made the decision to buy a new starter went to Rock Auto, chose a new starter, AC Delco when attempting to pay the shopping cart it came up as we will not ship to your address because your order attempts to collect sales tax both at the state level as well as municipal. We cannot determine the local tax because we have no local presence in your community. Any one else experience this frustration???
Never had that experience from RA here it Texas.
 

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Not to hijack my own thread but yesterday when I made the decision to buy a new starter went to Rock Auto, chose a new starter, AC Delco when attempting to pay the shopping cart it came up as we will not ship to your address because your order attempts to collect sales tax both at the state level as well as municipal. We cannot determine the local tax because we have no local presence in your community. Any one else experience this frustration???
I live in Colorado as well and when I went to place a RA order got same result. Emailed Rockauto and they confirmed they no longer ship to Colorado. I've spent many a dollar with them over the years and enjoyed the savings but government wants THEIR money. As for your starter issue, had a lifetime starter from the Zone fail. Expected to walk out with a free replacement but it tested good. Put starter back in and nothing. Decided to go to another starts with A store and test there. They also said it was good. Went to pick and pull for a starter and that one worked. Sent email to the Zone and they said to talk to store manager who I kind of knew because he owned a Gen 3 show and I owned a Gen 1 and 2. He tested it and it was bad so eventually got my new starter. That was 3 years ago and new starter sat on shelf. Just donated that car to charity and put the new starter behind front seat which I hope got installed.
 

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Replaced my starter today. For Jeff K it is from chain beginning with the "0". First replacement in 2011 when wife needed her car for company. They bench tested it and supplied a replacement. I installed the replacement, relatively simple, one battery cable, two electrical connections at the starter, and two starter bolts. There is an alignment pin, so no shims, etc. Tried to start and got a Ziiiiiiing sound as if starter motor was turning but not engaging flywheel. I checked the flywheel, even turned it some. Battery reads 12.7 volts so seems fully charged. This happened several times. I have read here that some parts come out of the box bad, so removed it and took it to a different "O" than the one that had supplied the replacement. They tested it three times and it performed flawlessly. I reinstalled it very carefully to same results. Battery good, connections clean and tight, but cables are 20 years old. Why would it perform OK on the bench, but installed gives me the zing without turning the flywheel??? If the cables are worn or faulty could that keep enough current from kicking out the pinion?

Looked at battery cables and they seem kind of generic. My Taurus has a couple of leads on the positive cable, maybe two on the negative cable, one to ground. How do I handle the extra leads that seem not to be on replacement cable.

Appreciated any ideas, king of stumped right now.

Scott
I had an experience similar to yours. Only mine was in the parking lot of the doctor office. the smaller started wire on the started hade broke. My son came and removed it and we to AZ. I bought the lest expensive starter. Installed and it did the same as yours. Took it off and went to a different AZ because the first didn't have a replacement. At the second store the young man said "yeah we've had problem with these". To which I replied, "Yet you continue to sell them". Installed it, and same thing! Took it back to the first store and bought the more expensive starter. Installed it and varoom, it started right up.
 
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