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Hi Naughty Nate and Automender1234,

To answer your above question, yes it will start cold, but it's a very hard start, sounds like running on a couple cylinders, then immediately dies. So on to the starting fluid test:

I pulled the rubber bellows off at the throttle body, rammed a little piece of wood in there between the bellows and the body to keep the rubber a couple inches down out of the way, then I could see the plate, opened the plate and gave it ~ 5secs of starting fluid back in there, reattached the bellows, started it, and I got about 5 secs of a good rev, but it sounded like a smooth rev with all cylinders firing, then it died immediately when it ran out of ether.

I asked above, and again now, do you need a video of that fuel pressure tester winding down, and down, and down? If not, I'm open for suggestions on some next steps.

Thanks again for putting up with me on all of this. At least we can do this at our leisure and we're not sitting at a rest stop on the turnpike with screaming kids in the back seat. Amen to that.

Regards . . .
Sounds like the fuel pump.
-chart-
 

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There are methods to try cleaning them yourself with pressurized air and whatnot, but I can't personally testify to any.

Unless I'm mistaken, you may be able to pull up the misfire monitor with engine off and retrieve the last known misfire rates. I generally prefer to use this to get a better idea of the misfire situation. At this point though, there's not much else. Try that pressure test again to verify your results...
I have had/have 18 Ford fuel injector cars. One leaking injector on '88. Only issue hot starting sort of shake for a few seconds.
Rare to have a fuel injector on G4 and earlier Fords.
-chart-
 

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Honestly it could be the regulator or check valve, but I believe it's a return-less system (so like stated above, basically the fuel pump) so the only way to know would be dropping the tank. Gas smell in the oil might indicate injectors, but unless you see leaks somewhere, it looks like something needs to be removed.

If the fuel line to the injectors is rubber, you can carefully pinch it off when doing your static pressure test, (have someone turn key then immediately pinch) and if the pressure still drops then it's injectors, if it holds then you know it's in the pump.
 

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Sounds like the fuel pump.
-chart-
The only reason I am not convinced it is a fuel pump is the initial pump up pressure is ok and it drops after shutdown. Only my 2001 it took three or four key cycles to build pressure. These pumps can supply plenty of flow. I have run the car with a hose connected to the pressure valve and drained the tank while engine was running. I agree I never had an injector issue in 25 years.
 

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Discussion Starter #45
You say the vehicle will no longer start (cold) at all, yes? If it does not, then try the starter fluid and see if it helps it start.

If it does start, you might get a better picture of what's happening by glancing at your misfire monitor, which, luckily for you, your 2000 is equipped with and you have the Torque app (Torque Pro is worth the $5).

In this case, go to Test Results and note the readings for TID: 53 CID: 1 - 6
The 1 - 6 corresponds to cylinders 1-6 and will give the misfire count for each one. Excessively high numbers on a couple cylinders could further indicate a couple bad injectors...unless you're dealing with more than 1 issue of course.
Hi Naughty Nate,

Yes I do have the Torque Pro version. Until you suggested it, I had never even looked at that Test Results section. I'm replying here just to let you know that I did take a look today. Please note that the extremely rough running and engine dying problem has been resolved ( and I'll discuss that in a later post today).

Regards . . .


P.S. Just now I went outside, turned the key to start position, and opened Torque (I hope engine not running is correct). Here's what it I see today (now that the engine runs ok without constant misfiring):

Mode $06 report generated by Torque for Android
================================================

Vehicle VIN: Not present
Vehicle Manufacturer: Unknown
Vehicle Calibration ID: Not present

Unit and scaling information are not supplied with the data from the ECU for this type of vehicle. Consulting the manufacturers service book for this information is recommended.

Test report:
------------------
TID:$01 CID:$11
- Rich to Lean sensor threshold voltage(constant)
Min: 512
Test result value: 815
PASS
----
TID:$01 CID:$21
- Rich to Lean sensor threshold voltage(constant)
Min: 512
Test result value: 773
PASS
----
TID:$03 CID:$01
- Low sensor Voltage for switch time calculation
Min: 0
Test result value: 461
PASS
----
TID:$03 CID:$02
- Low sensor Voltage for switch time calculation
Min: 0
Test result value: 461
PASS
----
TID:$10 CID:$11
-
Max: 52
Test result value: 31
PASS
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TID:$10 CID:$21
-
Max: 52
Test result value: 32
PASS
----


End of report.
 

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Discussion Starter #46
Hi All,

I know it's over 30 days since my last post. Sorry for this very late post, but the badly misfiring/no-run engine has been fixed. Whoopee!. Here's a summary of some of the solutions in this multi-problem problem. Imho, every single post in this long thread was worth the price of admission.

Post#17 08/20/19: I mention a loose ignition-key cable on the starter caused the starter to fail when the terminal/terminal connector got hot. Problem 1 solved and we have good starter function again. Starting of a cold engine and general engine running is good, but starting a hot engine is still problematic.
Post#21 09/05/19: Chartmaker suggests a problem with the PCV valve.
Post#22 09/11/19: I mention I did a complete top-end seal job including PCV, valve covers, intake manifold, new spark plugs, misc related air/vacuum hoses in February of 2018.
Post#28 09/28/19: Something happened on a trip to the local store and the car would barely run, like it was running on 2 or 3 cylinders. I was able to limp it ~1/4 mile home. I consider the engine has failed mechanically permanently. I also mentioned I had opportunity to buy a Ford Fusion and now the Taurus must go.
Post#34-#35 10/01/19: Automender1234 suggests trying starter fluid to rule out some other mechanical problem.
Post#37 10/01/19: I test and the car will run fine on starting fluid.
Post#38 10/01/19: Naughty Nate suggests a stethoscope test of the injectors, but we can't do that because the engine won't run.

Around mid-October I called some local dealers and the junk yards. Understandably, the dealers don't want a horse that can't stand up on all fours, and the junk yard offers $150 and free towing/pickup. One of my neighbors who flips cars becomes interested and says he'll offer $500 if he can have his mechanic look at it first.

Short story: Mechanic shows up. Asks me to start the car. I tell him that it will turn over, but won't stay running, and even then it's like it's running on 2-3 cylinders. He says to try to start it anyway. I comply, and it stalls in a couple seconds. He asks my to get out of the car and come forward again. He says, you have a hose off. I say that's impossible, I just did the top end in February 2018, and (excluding the loose starter ignition wire) it ran fine (cold) until it recently died at the local convenience store. Sure enough, there it was: There's custom molded 90 degree "boot" that comes straight down out of the bottom of the throttle body, and then makes a 90 turn where a short length of custom molded plastic pipe connects that boot to the plastic pipe that runs back to the PCV valve. The short length of plastic pipe had pulled back out of that rubber boot! The pipe was still laying on the end of the boot, but not shoved down inside the boot. OMG!

Talk about embarrassed. I bet I turned beet red. I told him I had A/C work done a couple months ago and possibly one of their people pulled this off as some kind of adolescent joke. Btw, I called the shop who did my A/C (my regular mechanic) and politely asked if he had any problems with personnel this summer. He said no it was just him and his long time assistance. I believe him. Then I'm left with a neighbor who on occasion gets into the sauce a little to deep. He was cable of a trick like this, but probably wouldn't just let it go on day after day (unless he forgot he did it). So now I'm paranoid as to who pulled the hose off.

Two days ago I was getting my maintenance records ready for the next owner. In there I find a note I never added to my maintenance log. he note was dated 1/20/18. That's about a month before I did the top engine seals/hoses job. The note said:
"P0171 Powertrain System too lean (Bank 1), and also P0174 (ditto for Bank 2) fixed by adding SS screw clamps to 90 degree rubber piece under carb (ie. PCV hose assembly): This 90 degree piece failed and leaked where it connects to the plastic PCV pipe."
Double OMG! I had that same bad/loose PCV hose connection problem, at that same rubber boot location before. I completely forgot about it. Back then, I my "fix" was to add a clamp. In retrospect, the only problem this time around was that I didn't add the clamp back on when I did the top engine job a month later.

Regarding the injectors, I'd love to get out the stethoscope and report back, but it's out of my hands now. Good to know that test and YouTube shows the easy how-to. Also consider that since the plugging of the major PCV hose leak, the hot starts are not as problematic now. Just turn the key on and crank the starter immediately seems to work good enough. No holding down of gas pedal required. A week ago I added a can of "Lucas fuel injector/upper cylinder lube" into 3/4 tank of gas just for good measure.

So the lesson learned the very hard way, and almost very expensive way (ie. losing $2k on a sale) is to either put a clamp on the hose, or check it at oil changes to make sure is shoved back into the boot.

Thanks big time to everyone who help me on this weekend project thread. I'll continue to subscribe and look forward to helping or clarifying whenever I can. As always, your comments, thoughts and suggestions are always welcome : )

Regards . . .
 

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Thank you for the update. It pays to retrace your steps and check the basics. Considering you have a good scan tool with Torque, we might be able to narrow it down quicker next time. Fuel trim values would have solved a vac leak quickly, but once it stopped running it gets tougher. Cheers!
 

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Discussion Starter #48
Thanks for that advice Naughty Nate. Next time I get idle problems, I'll read up on "fuel trim values" using Torque.
Regards . . .
 

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Thanks for that advice Naughty Nate. Next time I get idle problems, I'll read up on "fuel trim values" using Torque.
Regards . . .
Understanding fuel trim is quite complicated and requires knowledge of the entire system, but are one of the absolute best quick diagnostic tools for narrowing stuff down.
 

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Understanding fuel trim is quite complicated and requires knowledge of the entire system, but are one of the absolute best quick diagnostic tools for narrowing stuff down.
Fuel trims are a bit tricky unless you record them as in the attachment. Best not to expect exact numbers as they move around all the time to keep the short term in average zero. Even at idle, different in gear or in "N". Key is this: it they go very high at idle but lower under power, you have a vacuum leak. Higher under load likely low fuel pressure. I have lots of recordings from at least 5 cars but do not have one of a vacuum leak since I never had a vacuum leak issue.
-chart-
 

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I think you popped the hose the time you had the pop and smoke while starting and the bad drive home, It was not the initial problem you had.
 

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Discussion Starter #53
Fuel trims are a bit tricky unless you record them as in the attachment. Best not to expect exact numbers as they move around all the time to keep the short term in average zero. Even at idle, different in gear or in "N". Key is this: it they go very high at idle but lower under power, you have a vacuum leak. Higher under load likely low fuel pressure. I have lots of recordings from at least 5 cars but do not have one of a vacuum leak since I never had a vacuum leak issue.
-chart-
Hi chartmaker,
Now we know where the "chartmaker" comes from! Does Torque Pro make that chart, or if I may ask, did you export Torque data and do in Excel/OpenOffice?
Regards . . .
 

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Discussion Starter #54
I think you popped the hose the time you had the pop and smoke while starting and the bad drive home, It was not the initial problem you had.
Hi Automender12345,

Yep, that sounds like a real good possibility, given the sequence of events that day. Keying off of what you pointed out, here's another possibility: The plastic pipe was still in that 90° rubber molding for some time, but just laying in the very end, and not shoved inside the molding. The time I had the pop and bit of smoke, finished the job by moving the pipe completely off the molded part. That would explain why, up to that day, I was able to warm start it most of the time (or with full depressed pedal), and suddenly after the "pop" we were almost dead in the water.

And yes, the original hard start when warm was due to the very loose connection of the ignition key wire on the starter (ie. good enough contact when cold, but a current sink when hot on that corroded connection stud).

Regards . . .
 
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