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Hi Jeff K (and kekaye56),
Sorry for the late post, but I just got back to this a couple days ago. As you suggested, I pulled off the IAC. It took a couple sprays, some soaking for a couple minutes, and some light brushing with soft solder flux brush (not used btw) to get the carbon/etc off.

Btw, I saw a "auto repair challenged" person on Youtube fill that plunger chamber up with carb cleaner and let is soak "for a while". I bet that solenoid is working much better (not) with carb cleaning inside of it now. Anyway . . .

My plunger is not fully seated, as seen here:
View attachment 215118
If you look closely under the plunger in the top chamber (as seen above), under the seal is a small silver/grey area in the center. That silver spot is actually the plunger shaft we see, because the seal is not yet fully seated.

We have not yet had a shopping day where we make multiple stops, so I don't know if the simple carb cleaner cleaning has fixed the sputtering hard-hot-start issue. Does anyone know if I'm supposed to see shaft under there, or is that plunger supposed to be seated in it's tapered seat?

Thanks again for sharing your experience.

Regards . . .

P.S. Nice that we can insert pics directly now with this new forum software : )
See pic, this car now at 188K looks the same. I inspect every Fall maintenance. If you see oil there, it is caused by the PCV not working right, or it is not OE part. The plunger is always open when not in a running engine. This IAC only passes filtered clean air. However is the PCV is not doing it's job, oil vapor can come back up the fresh air hose to the accordion. The accordion should also be clean and dry.

-chart-
 

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Discussion Starter #22
Hi chart,

Thanks for the helpful reply and sharing your pic : )

My PVC valve and hose were replaced last year when I did the top engine intake manifold and valve cover gaskets job. That said, maybe I can eliminate the PVC valve with a couple questions:

1. If it starts perfect when cold, but then has a hard start problem when it's parked maybe an hour and is still hot, could the PCV valve cause that hard starting?

2. Is there a way to test that IAC valve? Maybe remove IAC and apply 12v to one of the pins to make sure it closes/opens?

Regards . . .

P.S. I just checked for codes. I hadn't done yet since the battery has was removed last week for a recharge (after a failed hard start had drained it somewhat). No codes yet.
 

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Hard hot restart after sitting for a half hour or so can be due to leaking injectors or injector. Fuel system stays pressurized after shutdown for quite a while. Leaking injector(s) will drip into cylinder(s) causing a very rich condition and hard start. After a while pressure dissipates due to leaking injector(s) and slight leakage thru the anti backflow valve in the fuel pump and excess fuel in cylinder evaporates so engine starts fine when cool. You wont get any rich codes for this because it takes a minute or so for O2 sensors to heat up and become active. BTDT.
 

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The IAC valve can’t be tested by simply putting 12 vdc to it. I tested for a failed one by slightly pressing the gas pedal while starting the car. If it starts then it maybe stuck closed. Also I check for fuel issues by opening the throttle plate and giving a five second shot of starting fluid, closing tp , putting snorkel back on and cranking. Also depressing the gas pedal fully will prevent the fuel pump from running to help with flooded engine
 

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Discussion Starter #25
Hi Jeff K and Automender1234,

Great info Jeff K. Thanks for that insight into injector operation at wide open throttle (WOT). Ditto Automender1234 too for your help on IAC workings.

Unless I'm off track here, and using the info you both provided, I'm thinking a test for the "...over-rich condition when hot due to leaking injector..." might be to depress the throttle fully when I need to do a hot start, and see what happens. I'm guessing the procedure would be to turn the key to ON, depress throttle pedal fully, turn the key to START to begin cranking starting, and when it starts, immediately let off the pedal. That might confirm the over-rich condition when hot that you described. I'll try this test first as no disassembly required.

Next I could do another test for lean condition using the procedure Automender1234 describes. Some assembly required there.

I'll let you all know how this goes. The Taurus is going on a multi-stop shopping trip today.

Regards . . .
 

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I think Jeff K is on to something. Try letting the cold engine run for a minute and shut it off before getting fully up to temp. Let it sit, maybe 10-30 minutes then see if it acts up when starting. If it does, might be injectors sticking. You will likely smell gas for a moment when you start it if this is the case.

Maybe someone can chime in with a more accurate strategy.
 

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On second thought, considering you say that throttling it gets it to start, Automender12345 probably nailed it about the IAC sticking. Anxious to hear your results.
 

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Discussion Starter #28
Hi Everyone,

Sorry for the late reply and what is going to be an elongated post. Here's what's happened since 16 days ago:
The car was driven almost everyday to work and back with no stops in between. As previously discussed, that means it would always start nicely (it never been driven that day), and would start nicely again after it sit at work for 8 hours (it had sit long enough to cool down). That said . . .

There were also three times the boss took it out for shopping. I had instructed her to use the "full throttle" routine so we could determine if leaky injectors was a possible problem. As I find out only today, the first time she pegged the gas pedal it started but she kept the pedal fully depressed a little too long and the engine revved. The second shopping trip when she hot started it, she let off the gas pedal as soon as the engine started to start, and there was no excessive revving that time, and it started nicely as desired. The third shopping trip's hot start was a successful repeat of the second trip. Which leads us to yesterday.

Yesterday I take it out to the local convenience store. I hadn't personally driven it in a couple weeks. So of course I forget about the "full throttle" hot start routine we were supposed to be testing. That of course gave me a real hard start that just wouldn't start period. There was a little bit of smoke from under the hood when it popped/poofed once or twice too. Not wanting to cook the starter (and also to check for an engine fire), I get out of the baking hot car and wait in the shade for 5 minutes for the started to cool down a bit. No fire either thankfully. Not yet knowing the full throttle procedure "refinement" that the boss made work (ie. let off full throttle pedal quickly), it revs it to like 3000 for me, and I expected it to settle down like it has worked nicely for the boss. Wrong: I was able to get it to run, but it was misfiring and sputtering like it was running on 3 (not 6) cylinders. Time to make a plan to get home.

Plan B: I was able to get the car to move slowly in the convenience store parking lot by pedaling/coaxing the throttle pedal to keep the engine turning at about 1500 rpm (it would die lower than that), and more or less leaning on the brakes to keep the car from accelerating too much. Then I crossed my fingers and limped it out into the street at a 13 lane intersection. Of course I have to hit the light exactly wrong and had to sit there in neutral, misfiring and trying to die, for another 4 minutes. With no A/C on, and the windows down, I was sweating bullets for any number of reasons at that point. Finally I get the green light, put it in drive, and limp it across 6 lanes and back into my housing development. I confess, it's the first time that I (cautiously) rolled through each and every stop sign: No way was I going to let the bull die on the road that close to home. It made it into the driveway. Which brings us to this morning.

The car had sat there all night, which based on past experience, means it should start fine. I cross my fingers and . . . it starts right up (no dead battery), but it is running terribly. It's running just the way it was when I limped it home yesterday. It would not idle smoothly at all and would just die without coaxing it, like yesterday. Not good : (

I put my (authentic BAFX ODBII) bluetooth code reader on it and am reading it using Torque for Android. Here's what I "shared" to my email for copying into this post (non-Fords removed):

Fault log report generated by Torque for Android
=================================================
Vehicle VIN:
Vehicle Manufacturer:
Vehicle Calibration ID:

Current Fault Log
------------------
P1131:
[Ford] Lack of Upstream Heated Oxygen Sensor Switch - Sensor Indicates Lean - Bank No. 1
P1151:
[Ford] Lack of Upstream Heated Oxygen Sensor Switch - Sensor Indicates Lean - Bank No. 2

Pending Fault Log
------------------
P0136: O2 Sensor Circuit Malfunction (Bank 1 Sensor 2)
P0156: O2 Sensor Circuit Malfunction (Bank 2 Sensor 2)

Historic Fault Log
------------------
ECU reports no historic faults
Other discovered fault codes
(possibly pending, current or manufacturer specific)
----------------------------------------------------
ECU reports no other fault codes logged

Please read on . . .

Since out last discussion 16 days ago, I had the unexpected opportunity to privately buy a 2011 Ford Fusion SE. I couldn't resist: It has only 12,000 miles on it, was garage kept, and was only serviced by Ford (air bag/bags were replaced too). The price was right too. Now the boss has a more dependable ride and those related transportation worries are gone for both of us. But for now, I still have the 2000 SE Duratek in the corral.

Earlier this summer, thinking we were going to be driving the 2000 SE for at least another 2 years, I had a leaking A/C drier line replaced. Then about a month later, I had the the A/C evaporator case was replaced due to a leaking evap core. That all came to a bit over $2k (an ouch job on this car). Btw, A/C is not optional where I live. I figured that was only about $100/month over ~2 years, so it would be relatively cheap transportation for that period.

The car also has 2018 Michelin tires with only 4k on them. Pros: I did the (not fun) PCV valve & hose replacement and (easier) all top end gaskets/seals early this year. Engine compartment is clean. There's no rust whatsoever, interior is very good with no blems in fabric or plastics, exterior is good, never any accidents, the tranny was rebuilt at ~35k with better torque converter too, and I have complete records and many extras accumulated over the years. Cons: The driver's door lock solenoid is flaky so we just use the key to lock that door. It's almost time for an oil/filter change.

Given the story and the fault codes above, I'm asking (begging?) for opinions on what to do with this 2000 SE with only 81,340 miles on it. I look forward to your thoughts, comments and recommendations.

Regards . . .
 

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Wondering if you have an electrical problem. If you have a multimeter, unplug whichever of the 2 upstream sensors is easiest to reach (considering both bank 1 and 2 are showing a problem) and test the port where they plug in for proper ground and signal. Refer online for specific instruction. The o2 sensors ground directly to the engine block; I wonder if this line was damaged during other maintenance. On Vulcan engines, this line can ride close to the rear cat/exhaust manifold and take heat damage.
 

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Discussion Starter #30
Wondering if you have an electrical problem. If you have a multimeter, unplug whichever of the 2 upstream sensors is easiest to reach (considering both bank 1 and 2 are showing a problem) and test the port where they plug in for proper ground and signal. Refer online for specific instruction. The o2 sensors ground directly to the engine block; I wonder if this line was damaged during other maintenance. On Vulcan engines, this line can ride close to the rear cat/exhaust manifold and take heat damage.
I'm replying on my phone so if this looks weird that's why. Naughty Nate, I may have to take you up on that tomorrow evening. Just about an hour ago I got out my fuel pressure gauge. I can't do a pressure test while engine running because the engine is not running. But I can do a static test and I did. When I turn the key on it went up to like 40 or 37 and then I don't know maybe in 10 seconds went down to about 27 or 26 somewhere in there. And the key was still on and it just just kept dropping over the next 20 seconds till it got down to like 12 pounds and I just turn the key off at that point. My pressure tester manual says it should hold pressure with that key on, and some cars it may drop like 3 - 10 after initial maximum. And on other cars the pressure may stay at whatever maximum the pump is capable of doing.
Does this new information help the diagnosis at all? Thanks again for your help and comments.
 

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I am thinking the leak down is too fast based on my experience. Could be a leaning check valve back to the tank or leaking injectors. I posted two years ago on a pump up and leak down but can't find my thread with the new layout.
 

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Perhaps those injectors we were discussing earlier. This might explain the sudden lean readings triggering the o2 issue. The pressure should not drop that much that quickly.

Take Automender's suggestion above about spraying starter fluid into the intake. (Dunno if carb or throttle cleaner will work, maybe ask around to see if u can't spare $ for starter fluid) If this helps the vehicle start, then you've got a fuel delivery issue.

Then that would rule out everything else and we can focus on the injectors, pressure regulator, and pump.
 

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Also do you smell gas at all when trying to start it?

Check the vacuum line that runs to the fuel rail and look for potential leaks. If push comes to shove then unplug one end and blow smoke in it.

Sounds more and more like a sticking injector that finally gave out.
 

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Discussion Starter #34
The IAC valve can’t be tested by simply putting 12 vdc to it. I tested for a failed one by slightly pressing the gas pedal while starting the car. If it starts then it maybe stuck closed. Also I check for fuel issues by opening the throttle plate and giving a five second shot of starting fluid, closing tp , putting snorkel back on and cranking. Also depressing the gas pedal fully will prevent the fuel pump from running to help with flooded engine
Hi Automender1234, Naughty Nate, Et al,

Thank you for the helpful replies : )

Naughty Nate, I went back and found Automender1234's post# 24 where it was said, "Also I check for fuel issues by opening the throttle plate and giving a five second shot of starting fluid, closing up , putting snorkel back on and cranking. Also depressing the gas pedal fully will prevent the fuel pump from running to help with flooded engine".

This evening, I'll try the 5 second starting fluid squirt, after throttle plate debug. I'm missed that test that I should have done when advised 18 days ago. Duh to me.

Also - I'm not going to try this now, I'm just interested for accuracy of the procedure. So I ask Automender1234, at what point do you depress the gas pedal fully? Before turning the ignition on, or when the key is in the Run position just before turning it to Start?

Also - Would you either of you (or others) like me to get a video of that fuel pressure gauge dropping? That way you'd see exactly, rather than depending on my recollection after the fact. I could post it up to cloud for temporary viewing/comment. Would that be helpful?

Regards . . .
 

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You say the vehicle will no longer start (cold) at all, yes? If it does not, then try the starter fluid and see if it helps it start.

If it does start, you might get a better picture of what's happening by glancing at your misfire monitor, which, luckily for you, your 2000 is equipped with and you have the Torque app (Torque Pro is worth the $5).

In this case, go to Test Results and note the readings for TID: 53 CID: 1 - 6
The 1 - 6 corresponds to cylinders 1-6 and will give the misfire count for each one. Excessively high numbers on a couple cylinders could further indicate a couple bad injectors...unless you're dealing with more than 1 issue of course.
 

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Oh and depressing the pedal fully will only be to temporarily cut off the injectors on a hot start in case they have already leaked gas into the cylinder which hasn't yet dissipated. Ignition forward, peddle down, then start.
 

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Discussion Starter #37
Hi Naughty Nate and Automender1234,

To answer your above question, yes it will start cold, but it's a very hard start, sounds like running on a couple cylinders, then immediately dies. So on to the starting fluid test:

I pulled the rubber bellows off at the throttle body, rammed a little piece of wood in there between the bellows and the body to keep the rubber a couple inches down out of the way, then I could see the plate, opened the plate and gave it ~ 5secs of starting fluid back in there, reattached the bellows, started it, and I got about 5 secs of a good rev, but it sounded like a smooth rev with all cylinders firing, then it died immediately when it ran out of ether.

I asked above, and again now, do you need a video of that fuel pressure tester winding down, and down, and down? If not, I'm open for suggestions on some next steps.

Thanks again for putting up with me on all of this. At least we can do this at our leisure and we're not sitting at a rest stop on the turnpike with screaming kids in the back seat. Amen to that.

Regards . . .
 

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Does your oil smell like gas? Check it. Any fluid coming from the tailpipe?

Considering you get around 40 psi pressure, and considering it drops to less than 15-20 psi within 60 seconds, I've seen enough to remove those injectors and have them tested and cleaned/replaced.

Considering it will not stay running, you cannot check the injectors with a stethoscope (which should've been advised to you from the get-go), but at this point it seems highly likely they are the problem.

Perhaps seek more advice? Either way, we'd appreciate any updates you share, as it helps everyone learn.
 

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There are methods to try cleaning them yourself with pressurized air and whatnot, but I can't personally testify to any.

Unless I'm mistaken, you may be able to pull up the misfire monitor with engine off and retrieve the last known misfire rates. I generally prefer to use this to get a better idea of the misfire situation. At this point though, there's not much else. Try that pressure test again to verify your results...
 
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