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Discussion Starter #1
Ok, This isn't about my Taurus, it's about a family members.
This is reported 2nd hand, so I will give all that was told. I can relay questions to the owners. So there may be delays in responses.
This is about 2 brothers. The owner, Ron, and the one fixing it, Larry.


<strike>What I know. it's a '95 or '96 (waiting confirmation since they are different generations).</strike>
Update: it is a 1998 Sable LS
About 2 years ago the dome light wouldn't go out, They removed the bulb.
He said that it wasn't the jamb switch. He tried every thing he could think of. The result was to remove the bulb.

Now there is a short or something. Starting Two weeks ago, the car wouldn't start in the morning. Ron had to get a jump from Larry. The car would run all day. Next morning no start. This went on for 3 days. Then Larry put a pair of battery disconnects on the Battery cables.
Like this http://www.fostertruck.com/images/Super%20...nal%20bolts.JPG He disconnects the terminals, every night, when he gets home.

And since then, Car starts every morning, no issue.

So. what could because this. Where can I start for diagnosing it?
 

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With one proviso (next paragraph), you could put a VOM between + on the battery and the positive cable and pull fuses one by one until the VOM stops reading 12-14 V.

Proviso is that there might be various electronics that will always draw a tiny amount -- if it has remote entry, the transponder for that requires a very small amount of power at all times, for example. Maybe current draw (amperage) would be a better measure than voltage.

Of course, this only works if the troubled circuit is fused and that trouble is occurring beyond the fuse... but at least it's a start.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Ok so check for shorts by placing an VOM (volt, Ohm Meter? I always called it a MultiMeter set to 10-20 Volt Range). Between the Pos terminal and the Pos. Battery cable. Pull the fuses. Pull one fuse at a time till the 12V goes to zero. Then Put put in a fuse that was pulled to see if it still reads zero. It if does leave it and put the next in. If it reads 12V note it, remove and move on. That is what I gather you mean.

or I can set the meter to Current and measure the current draw on each of the circuits.
 

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QUOTE (thesavo @ May 20 2009, 08:40 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=726612
Ok so check for shorts by placing an VOM (volt, Ohm Meter? I always called it a MultiMeter set to 10-20 Volt Range). Between the Pos terminal and the Pos. Battery cable. Pull the fuses. Pull one fuse at a time till the 12V goes to zero. Then Put put in a fuse that was pulled to see if it still reads zero. It if does leave it and put the next in. If it reads 12V note it, remove and move on. That is what I gather you mean.

or I can set the meter to Current and measure the current draw on each of the circuits.[/b]
Use the current draw method.
Disconnect the + cable and move it aside. Measure amps between the +cable and +battery terminal. Pull fuses until draw drops significantly.

Make sure the dome light isnt staying on. Seems to be the most common culprit.
 

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The +'96s don't have door jamb switches and the dome light staying on is a common problem usually fixed by spraying the door latches down with WD 40. This is where the door switch is at.

But to trace down the current draw you need an ammeter and put this in line with teb positive or negative battery cable. The car should draw no more than 50mA after the modules have timed out which may take 15 minutes or so.

The accessory delay relay can be pulled once that circuit is ruled out to stop the interior light draw when pulling fuses and having the door open.

I had this problem on my '97 and it turned out to be the football in the dash but this may be different on your car.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
QUOTE (00tec-saTX @ May 20 2009, 09:45 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=726613
Make sure the dome light isnt staying on. Seems to be the most common culprit.[/b]
But wouldn't removing the Bulb counter that?

QUOTE (SHOZ123 @ May 20 2009, 09:48 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=726614
The +'96s don't have door jamb switches and the dome light staying on is a common problem usually fixed by spraying the door latches down with WD 40. This is where the door switch is at.

But to trace down the current draw you need an ammeter and put this in line with teb positive or negative battery cable. The car should draw no more than 50mA after the modules have timed out which may take 15 minutes or so.

The accessory delay relay can be pulled once that circuit is ruled out to stop the interior light draw when pulling fuses and having the door open.

I had this problem on my '97 and it turned out to be the football in the dash but this may be different on your car.[/b]
Ok. Amp Meter Between the Pos. battery and POS. Cable seems to be the Consensus for testing.

I am curious about the battery saver relay. I see it in all of my schematics, should I start off with out it. Or what?
 

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First thing to do is connect the amp meter and see what the draw is. If it is over 1.5A then the battery saver relay circuit would be suspect. If it is under 1A then it is not probably there.

Taking out the bulb would eliminate the light but not the other ciruits connected to the interior light relay circuit.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Ok I got a chance to look @ it today with a meter.

The meter read 1/2 and AMP after running the car. I narrowed it down to MAXI fuse No. 1 Which is ofcourse the fuse for the Interior Fuse panel. So I pulled out all of the Fuses 1 by 1. Reading .30 amps It pulled
Fuse marked

[attachment=30306:98Sable_Fuse2.GIF]

Pulling either fuse will drop the load to .02. Pulling both brings it down to .01 amps.
Pulling the BatterySaver Relay #34. Brings it down as well. I swapped the ISO micro relay with another from the main relay box and still load is @ .30 amps.

The paper owner's manual Called 23 the Wiper & Vaps. 27 was the BatterySaver.
#23 was a 5 amp fuse.

But the '98 Owners manual for Fleet.Ford.com. calls #23 (also 5 amp) GEM/RAP/PATS.
So there is a discrepancy.

So what now. Bad GEM? Because if I disconnect the Fuse or the Relay should it not continue running when being plugged backed in? The Dome bulb is gone.I don;t know if I got the Door Trigger fixed. I Sprayed all the Door latches with WD-40. If it WAS the Door trigger that failed. Opening any of the other doors should trigger it OFF right.

I am recommending to him to replace the GEM. Any thoughts? IT's a 98 Sable LS. EATC, autolamps everything.
 

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Now your throwing parts at the problem. The RAP module is always going to be drawing some power, otherwise the keyless system would not work.

You found the problem already. A circuit associated with the battery saver system is causing too much draw.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I was worried to much about the manual discrepancy. Any one got a '97 wiring manual? I think my '03 book my not be correctly accurate.
 

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What circuit do you want to have info on for the '97?
 

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Discussion Starter #12
the battery saver. Does the gem controll it too.
and do you know what wiper & VAPS is?
 

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The GEM only uses a timer to control the outputs. It monitors inputs to activate the timer. To test the GEM and the battery saver relay system, leave a car door open. It should time out after a while and turn off the courtesy lights.

The GEM controls the PS actuator solenoid to increase or decrease power assist.

The Wiper relays, park, high/low and washer pump, are controlled by the GEM and there is an input that tells the GEM the wiper motor is on.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
SHOZ123 thank you. These are so what I needed.
Looking @ the triggers. the Driver Side REAR door handle is sticking. Tried spraying WD-40 into it, no change. will have to start there pulling the trim off.
 

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QUOTE (thesavo @ Aug 3 2009, 09:17 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=744068
SHOZ123 thank you. These are so what I needed.
Looking @ the triggers. the Driver Side REAR door handle is sticking. Tried spraying WD-40 into it, no change. will have to start there pulling the trim off.[/b]
Try spraying the latch mechanism down with some grease.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Well we sprayed the crap out of the door latches. I just found out the handle has a switch in it instead of the latch. I am going to ask him (100 miles away) to do it. I won't be able to back there for a few weeks.
 

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Help Please?

Just bought a 99 Taurus SE thinking it was a good running car but I went out to start after 2.5 days of sitting and no start. After further review of the documentation in the glove box, it seems someone has already been chasing the issue. Receipt for new battery and new alternator approximately a month before I bought her. Looks like i got dooped. LOL! Happens to the best of us I guess. I like to repair my own vehicles and I have some mechanical experience but electrical is not my strong point. Here is my finding thus far:

33 Amp draw or 3.3? Does the decimal point mean MA? What should the Amps be at when testing this? Also the Amps drop to 18 or 1.8 when I remove the trunk bulb. Also notice my test light goes dim when we pull Fuse #23? GEM/RAP/PATS fuse vehicle interior fuse panel. Any advice, Im not sure where to go from here. I need help please if anyone has any pointers, I am all ears. Thank you in advance. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #18
33 amps or 3300ma. Same thing. That's quite high. 3.3 is also quite high. I never could get a chance to work on it.

I couldn't even get him to clean the door latch. That's a common threat. It keeps the dome light on. Even with bulb removed there's still a drain.
 
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