[Guest]

Just thought I'd post these up, since Dylan doesn't have a scanner. Looks like Alberto knows his stuff!

Before

After

That's almost 4 HP, but it's a little over 25 ft-lbs! Nice job Alberto. I drove the car Saturday, and it feels strong!

 

[ffvulcanpowah]

yes!!! i cant wait to get mine!

 

[mikehawk]

How come the lines are smooth in the first graph and all squiggly in the second?

 

[Guest]

Most likely a bad pickup on the dyno. I think their wideband may be off too. My last dyno read a little lean, even though Apten had richened it up.

 

[mikehawk]

Oh, I thought it was from all that new tec powah. The dyno just couldn't handle it.

 

[D Man]

Originally posted by mikehawk@Mar 16 2004, 07:17 PM
How come the lines are smooth in the first graph and all squiggly in the second?

I asked the guy running the dyno the same thing. He said their is noise or some kind of interference in the wires. I don't know exaclty what he means by that. The guy who did the first dyno run seemed like he knew what he was doing, and I "belive" he owns the place. The guy who did the second one really didn't seem like he knew what he was doing (which may be the reason for the squigly lines) but, did come up with an end reslut.

I may send the chip back and get reburned to help richin it up but, first I will clean the MAF and see if the sensor is getting dirty. Which, I think could be the reason for the leaning of the a/f.

I like the chip. I could tell an immediate difference as soon as I pulled out of the driveway. I'm sure I could trust Albertos' work. In fact when he seen my dyno resluts, he contacted me to send the chip back for the reburn. He wants to see his products working at their best.

 

[mikehawk]

I had always heard that the air/fuel mix was hard wired for WOT? I just thought you got all that torque from manipulating the torque converter.

hmm... that'll be interesting to see if Alberto can tap into the a/f ratio when at WOT. I might have to talk to him once the spring semester is over and I get a summer job.

 

[joe5.0]

I dont know what the big spike in torque is from, but since it doesnt really follow the curve and the 1st dyno didnt have it, I would say it might be a dyno error. Regardless, it still put down a little over 180wtq and almost 170whp, which is about a 10-15 hp & tq increase over stock. More importantly what is the average tq&hp from each run? Are you running premium with the chip? It looks like the chip leaned out your a/f ratio a little bit, where I'm sure some of the hp & tq came from. Just be very watchful for any pinging on acceleration because 15.0:1 a/f is starting to get decently lean. Optimal a/f is 12.5:1 at WOT, remember during part throttle your a/f is going to be alot leaner than WOT. Its good to see that the a/f doesnt get leaner as rpm increases.

 

[americanmotorsport.com]

Originally posted by mikehawk@Mar 16 2004, 09:24 PM
I had always heard that the air/fuel mix was hard wired for WOT? I just thought you got all that torque from manipulating the torque converter.

hmm... that'll be interesting to see if Alberto can tap into the a/f ratio when at WOT. I might have to talk to him once the spring semester is over and I get a summer job.

At WOT, the car runs off a table. I can place any cvalues I want in there. It is not "hard wired"

 

[americanmotorsport.com]

Originally posted by Bob Gervais@Mar 15 2004, 09:19 PM
That's almost 4 HP, but it's a little over 25 ft-lbs! Nice job Alberto. I drove the car Saturday, and it feels strong!

Pretty good. He picked up 26 ft/lbs at the wheels (about 30 atthe crank) and, although only 3 more FWHP peak, he did pick up like 20FHWP down low and in the mid range (about 23 at the crank) so it is A LOT more power everywhere. This is a 'stock' 98 4v Taurus.

As for the a/f, I suspect one of two things:

1. the MAF function is shifted on his car (be that from K&N oil on the MAF or other reason - I have seen this a lot)

or

2. The wideband used is old. The particular style of widebands used for dynojets tend to read lean when they are old.

You can tell how lean even his "stock" run is...there is no way, even with the Pro-M that it would be that off with and w/o the chip.

Now, if he cannot solve this issue on his end, I'd have to compensate by richening it up a litle, but it would be better to find the cause on his end.

As for the first and second graphs, it could be pickup from the wiress as was said or simply that the "smoothing" function was not used to the scale it was on the first run. There is a function called "smoothing factor" in the Winpep software that ranges fropm 1 to 5...you can use this to smooth out the traces...

 

[americanmotorsport.com]

Originally posted by jtkz13@Mar 16 2004, 11:21 PM
I dont know what the big spike in torque is from, but since it doesnt really follow the curve and the 1st dyno didnt have it, I would say it might be a dyno error. Regardless, it still put down a little over 180wtq and almost 170whp, which is about a 10-15 hp & tq increase over stock. More importantly what is the average tq&hp from each run? Are you running premium with the chip? It looks like the chip leaned out your a/f ratio a little bit, where I'm sure some of the hp & tq came from. Just be very watchful for any pinging on acceleration because 15.0:1 a/f is starting to get decently lean. Optimal a/f is 12.5:1 at WOT, remember during part throttle your a/f is going to be alot leaner than WOT. Its good to see that the a/f doesnt get leaner as rpm increases.

The dyno is accurate. This has to do with the way I re-made the converter lockup schedule to get more power to the wheels. Clearly, the first dyno graph wouldn't have it...

As for the a/f...as I mentioend you cannot pay attention to that. It is not really that lean. There is something off on the MAF or the WB. I do lean it out *some* but it yields very little power from just that. I have made pulls back to back with the 87 octane and you do not pick up too much power from the revised a/f alone, but you up, up some. It is a combination of the things I do that gets those results.

As for a/f, I agree. The car has 12.6 commanded...but as you can see even from the stock trace, there is something not right. Stock, they run that thing way rich and it still "reads" 14 on that trace... It is not really that lean. How much power do you think it would have made at 15:1?

Remember, when a car is too lean, cylinder pressures drop. You get leaner than 16:1 and cylinder pressure and temperature drop dramatically and it's actually safer to run 17:1 than it is to run 12:1. I know some will have a problem with that, oh well, get over, it's physics. Now 15:1 is not yet at this point, but like I said, it is not really commaning that a/f. However, this is mainly an issue with blower cars, where the danger zone is 13:1 to about 16:1. (This range does not apply here since this is an N/A car, but I threw it in here for background info since that is what forums are for). Still it made a lot of power for "being at 15:1"...)

Also, when you hit the "rev limiter' in the newer cars, the EEC shuts off the injectors and you instantly go from your WOT a/f to like 18-20:1...and nothing blows. It hits a "limiter" because you make no power. This is all not really relevant but it is here since I htoguiht it would be a good place for this info. I promised Bob I would post useful info here where relevant.

Anyway, he is not really that lean and as I told him and Bob, we need to find the issue on his end or the dyno's end....Bob suspects the WB sensor and he has his reasons. It was my first suspicion but not my only one. Bottom line is, in this case, disregard the a/f...

 

[D Man]

I don't know if it makes a difference but, when I did my first run I had a K&N cone filter and MAF adapter. Maybe this has something to do with leaness in my first run.

I will clean the MAF this weekend and maybe clean it again before I go back to dyno and if their is still an issue with the a/f I will send the chip back for a quick reburn. Maybe with the BBB installed their might be some need to increase the rev limiter. If the power keeps growing in the higher RPMs, which is where the BBB come into affect. We'll just have to wait and see

 

[americanmotorsport.com]

There is an issue. BOTH runs were lean. Clearly, mine was leaner since it is supposed to be, but NEITHER should be that lean. If you look at what the OEM commands and what I command, your MAF is shifted by the same percentage....

So like I said, if you cannot solve the issue, I can compensate for it...

What is this MAF adapter you speak of? Send me a note. If this is what I think it is, it could be what is shifting the curve. We can work around it in the program. I would then post our findings here for future reference.

 

[Guest]

The MAF adapter bolts to the MAF, so that you can use a cone filter, or adapt a cold air induction tube. Like this:short ram

 

[americanmotorsport.com]

That won't do it. I was thinking a reducer-type adapter. I still think it is oil form cleaning his filter, if ever, or the WB. I'd like for someone to take apart that MAF and use electrical contact cleanrer on it to see if this helps. Also, do you know how old that WB sensor they use is? It cold also be some otehr reason that it is shifted but these I would look into first.

If the reason is not found I'll compensate, but it would be best to find out why.

 

[Guest]

Originally posted by americanmotorsport.com@Mar 18 2004, 12:02 AM
That won't do it. I was thinking a reducer-type adapter. I still think it is oil form cleaning his filter, if ever, or the WB. I'd like for someone to take apart that MAF and use electrical contact cleanrer on it to see if this helps. Also, do you know how old that WB sensor they use is? It cold also be some otehr reason that it is shifted but these I would look into first.

If the reason is not found I'll compensate, but it would be best to find out why.

I've been trying to get in contact with the Dyno shop. I'll update as I know stuff.

 

[afi292]

so any duratec with this chip can expect 4 hp and 25ft-lbs torque?

 

[americanmotorsport.com]

Maybe. Al cars are different, You may pick up the same, or less, or a little more. I simply optimize the setup, and the car picks up what it picks up.

Also, it is only 4hp peak, but look how much he picked up down low which is more important...like 20 at the wheels!

For the money though, clearly these gains are worth it.

 

[afi292]

Originally posted by americanmotorsport.com@Mar 23 2004, 11:40 AM
Maybe. Al cars are different, You may pick up the same, or less, or a little more. I simply optimize the setup, and the car picks up what it picks up.

Also, it is only 4hp peak, but look how much he picked up down low which is more important...like 20 at the wheels!

For the money though, clearly these gains are worth it.

Ok, i have another question for you...

If i did put one of your chips in my car, and i need warranty work done... can i pull it out, and reset it somehow so the dealer would have NO idea whatsoever that it was ever in there???

 

[americanmotorsport.com]

If you are gonna do that, it would be best to flash the EEC...that way there is no way they would know.