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Doc recommended that I should look into extrude honing for the duratec manifolds, and although that looks far superior to hand porting, it also looks like it's way out of my price range. So how deep can you guys go when hand porting?

Here's a well-known company's price list for extrude honing just for reference. Your prices for hand porting look MUCH more affordable.

http://www.extrudehone.com/price_list2.pdf

Also, are you personally going to do the work, or are you going to delegate authority again? Just asking because I'd hate to see you take a bath on this one like with that last group buy.
 
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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
Originally posted by mikehawk@Feb 20 2004, 12:50 AM
Doc recommended that I should look into extrude honing for the duratec manifolds, and although that looks far superior to hand porting, it also looks like it's way out of my price range. So how deep can you guys go when hand porting?

Here's a well-known company's price list for extrude honing just for reference. Your prices for hand porting look MUCH more affordable.

http://www.extrudehone.com/price_list2.pdf

Also, are you personally going to do the work, or are you going to delegate authority again? Just asking because I'd hate to see you take a bath on this one like with that last group buy.
Extrude honing is expensive because of the media used, and the machinery to do it. Plus, many times a custom plate needs to be made to hold the part being honed. It is far easier to do, but like you said, expensive.

I have the Duratec upper now, and I'll take a look at it to see how far I can get in there. There's other products, like flexible shaft hones, that I can use to get deeper into the manifold also. Once I do it, I'll take some before/after pics.


There will be no more outsourcing.
 

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What if you just cut the friggin' manifold in half horrazontally so you an take the top off the bottom, port both halves seperatly and then carefully weld them back together, or weld tabs around the edge to put bolts in and put a gasket between the two?

-Dan
 
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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
Originally posted by dant98@Feb 21 2004, 08:13 AM
What if you just cut the friggin' manifold in half horrazontally so you an take the top off the bottom, port both halves seperatly and then carefully weld them back together, or weld tabs around the edge to put bolts in and put a gasket between the two?

-Dan
That could work, but it may end up taking about the same amount of time as making a custom manifold, and the gains of doing that to a stock manifold may not be worth the effort. It would however, make it much easier to clean the manifold later on. There's products made, such as Flex Hones, that will do a good job on them, it's just a matter of finding the correct size. I'll be measuring up the Duratec manifold this weekend, and getting some tools to be able to do them.
 

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$400 is one HELL of a deal! Just finding services like that for that price is tough, but on our specific cars.... forget it!

For us 1G and 2G owners, what about the idea of swapping the 2G manifold for the 4G one... or are you looking at a more significant gain than that? Is the overall diameter going to go up on the custom intakes?

I would also assume that if you are building tubular intake manifolds, you've also got the ability to build tubular exhaust manifolds... :evil_grin: If you came up with an affordable way to build Yamaha headers, the SHO community will beat a path to your doorstep.

That's it, I'm now a convert to Boblam. It's like Islam, only you move faster and there's none of that messy jihad stuff.
 
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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
QUOTE
I would also assume that if you are building tubular intake manifolds, you've also got the ability to build tubular exhaust manifolds...[/b]
Headers are a lot tougher to build, because you have to mate them with the y-pipe. It can be done, however without all the high tech machinery to make every header the same, I would literally need a car that I could mount them on, then weld them. Not saying it's impossible, but there's a whole lot of variables to contend with. Plus, emissions regulations vary by state. Certain states will not allow any modifications before the converter, and will flunk the car on a visual inspection, regardless of wheter or not it passes the sniffer. I know, headers aren't any different than manifolds, and are actually more efficient, but without CARB approval, things get a little sketchy.

QUOTE
For us 1G and 2G owners, what about the idea of swapping the 2G manifold for the 4G one... or are you looking at a more significant gain than that? Is the overall diameter going to go up on the custom intakes?[/b]
The plastic G4 intake is still a good alternative, but I'm not sure how everything would mate up. The G1/2 cars have the TB integral to the upper intake. The uppers will physically bolt on, but I'm unsure of how the separate TB will work out as far as throttle cable attachment and TPS sensor function. Someone <points at Tom> needs to be the test dummy on this project.


The intake tubes will be close to the stock size, perhaps slightly larger in diameter. The main gains, performance speaking, will be the smooth piping, ports for nitrous/water injection, and the ability to bolt on a larger TB, and have it be effective. IMO, even with a larger flange (think Jason King intake), the inside diameter of the upper intake restricts the airflow because it is only about 50-55 mm. Aesthetically speaking, it will kick arse.


*disclaimer: My statement about the JK intake was not made to flame anyone, just an example. *


QUOTE
That's it, I'm now a convert to Boblam. It's like Islam, only you move faster and there's none of that messy jihad stuff. 
[/b]
Shalom.
 

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Well, I picked up an extra duratec UIM and LIM at the junkyard today. For the pair, it was just under $40, is that a good price? I thought it seemed kind of high for junkyard stuff.

Bob, have you figured out the pricing for the duratec manifolds? And how's it going with the overbore secondaries project? Are you offering that yet?

Should I just hold on to the manifolds right now since you seem pretty swamped with the group buys and stuff, or will you take it now? I know it sucks to have a million things going on at once. Do I have to pay up front, or can I wait until it's ready to be shipped back?
 
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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
$40 is not bad at all, I paid $75 for the upper and lower that we used for the big bore project.

Speaking of big bores, they'll be installed on March 12th. The car will not be dyno'd on that day, we'll have too many other things going on, but at least we should be able to feel a slight difference.

I can do some porting with the uppers, and for the lower, we'd need one to make the big bores. I'd say hold on to things for right now, and once the big bores are installed, we can figure out what to do.
 

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2001 Ford Mustang. 2005 Harley Deluxe. 2016 Freightliber Cascadia.
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Ok, how much for a port and polish of my little 4 cylinder head? I also plan on having it milled .010, and maybe get some slightly larger valves put in and doing some other minor valve work, which of course larger valves and valve job would be done before it was sent if I went that route.

Michael
 

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Originally posted by Bob Gervais+Mar 13 2004, 07:07 PM-->QUOTE (Bob Gervais @ Mar 13 2004, 07:07 PM)
<!--QuoteBegin-mikehawk
@Mar 13 2004, 10:05 AM
So is Spy Guy's car the test car?
Nope. Dylan's 98 is the test cah faw da big baw buddalflies.
[/b]
I guess I'll just go pawk tha cah in tha Hahvad yawd.

So, have you stuffed some bigger butterflies in that lower intake yet?

To save weight on shipping, I was thinking about taking off as much crap as possible. Should I try to take out the rail and stock butterfly valves, or do you need the hardware? And can I remove the IMRC box and cable, too?
 
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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
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What if you just cut the friggin' manifold in half horrazontally so you an take the top off the bottom, port both halves seperatly and then carefully weld them back together, or weld tabs around the edge to put bolts in and put a gasket between the two?[/b]
This kind of defeats the purpose of porting because you will just add back in a bunch of welding seams. Half of the crap the porting gets rid of is weld seam.
 
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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
Originally posted by mikehawk+Mar 13 2004, 11:53 PM-->QUOTE (mikehawk @ Mar 13 2004, 11:53 PM)
Originally posted by Bob [email protected] 13 2004, 07:07 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-mikehawk
@Mar 13 2004, 10:05 AM
So is Spy Guy's car the test car?

Nope. Dylan's 98 is the test cah faw da big baw buddalflies.
I guess I'll just go pawk tha cah in tha Hahvad yawd.

So, have you stuffed some bigger butterflies in that lower intake yet?

To save weight on shipping, I was thinking about taking off as much crap as possible. Should I try to take out the rail and stock butterfly valves, or do you need the hardware? And can I remove the IMRC box and cable, too? [/b]
Big bores are installed, and kick a**.
No dyno numbers yet, in a few weeks we're all getting together to dyno Brad's, Dylan's, and mine. Seat of the pants though, you can definitely feel the car pulling harder when the secondaries open. Being that it was late when we came home, and we'd had a few beers, we didn't really open the car up, today I'm going to convince Dylan to let me "test drive" the car, me being a responsible installer and all...


As far as spare parts, and removal, take off everything on the lower except the throttle plate shaft, and the old secondary butterflies. On the upper, take off as much as you can to save on shipping.

And it's PAHK THE CAH.
 
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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
Originally posted by fantacmet@Mar 13 2004, 06:20 PM
Ok, how much for a port and polish of my little 4 cylinder head? I also plan on having it milled .010, and maybe get some slightly larger valves put in and doing some other minor valve work, which of course larger valves and valve job would be done before it was sent if I went that route.

Michael
Well, being that there's only one head, cut the V6 price in half. Intakes would be the same though.
 
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Discussion Starter · #37 ·
Originally posted by mikehawk+Mar 14 2004, 10:10 AM-->QUOTE (mikehawk @ Mar 14 2004, 10:10 AM)
<!--QuoteBegin-Bob Gervais
@Mar 14 2004, 10:01 AM
And it's PAHK THE CAH. 
Okay, I hosed up the Boston accent a little, but I didn't do too bad for a Florida boy.

So are you ready for me to ship?

Are you gonna throw in a phenolic spacer, too? [/b]
You can ship whenever you'd like, and I'll get started. No problem on the accent, it's taken us a long time to butcher up the English language.


As far as the phenolics, I don't think they'll be that effective on these after seeing the gaskets. Since the gaskets are plastic with an o-ring, it seems that the intake is already insulated. I could try though, it can't hurt.

PM me if you need the address, or, it's on my website. Can't wait to get started!
 
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Discussion Starter · #39 ·
Overbore is to 35mm, though I'm looking to go larger. There's plenty of room, and the injectors can definitely keep up with the increased airflow. Stock size was about 32mm, so you get a 3mm overbore, or about 1/8".
 
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