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Discussion Starter #1
Hey all, I'd really appreciate some input on a continuing overheating issue on a '96 Duratec. My problem exactly mirrors this one: http://www.taurusclub.com/forum/82-maintenance-repair/227242-overheating-issue.html

The car isn't normally driven by me, but the water pump impeller shattered and the car got up to the H then was shut down. I removed the pump and found the impeller shattered. I have since replace these parts listed below (I always use OEM on my stuff but this car's owner is on a tighter budget):

Autozone Duralast waterpump
Oreilly Murray 192 degree thermostat
OEM Ford coolant bottle cap
Extended Life Antifreeze

The car was running perfect before the water pump failed now with that part replaced it's still overheating. Here are a few high points that I hope will aid some of you to help me come up with a recipe to sort this out. I'm monitoring the coolant temp via a scan gauge 2 rather than just the panel gauge.

*Purged cooling system with car running, heat full blast, squeezing hoses
*Heat blows VERY warm solid
*Engine runs at 225 degrees while driving without heat running
*Engine idles at 200 degrees with heat on blower motor high
*Squeezing hoses sloshes coolant in the bottle
*Both fan speeds engage and disengage at certain temp increments
*Running heat on full blast seems to cool the engine better than with it off or temp control on cool

Thank you guy's so much for the help in advance and I would really appreciate some input in helping me get this car running cool again.

Maybe this is one of those systems that must be filled via a vacuum and have the coolant sucked in.
 

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That does not really sound a lot like overheating to me. Are you expecting it to run at 195 all the time?
 

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My Duratec churns around 185-190F on the interstate, air on, under 80MPH normally with the ambient temp under 90F. If it's 100F, doing 80 with the air on, coolant's at 200.

I'd say his car is running too warm, definitely. Esp if needle is even going above the middle.
 

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Hey all, I'd really appreciate some input on a continuing overheating issue on a '96 Duratec. My problem exactly mirrors this one: http://www.taurusclub.com/forum/82-maintenance-repair/227242-overheating-issue.html

The car isn't normally driven by me, but the water pump impeller shattered and the car got up to the H then was shut down. I removed the pump and found the impeller shattered. I have since replace these parts listed below (I always use OEM on my stuff but this car's owner is on a tighter budget):

Autozone Duralast waterpump
Oreilly Murray 192 degree thermostat
OEM Ford coolant bottle cap
Extended Life Antifreeze

The car was running perfect before the water pump failed now with that part replaced it's still overheating. Here are a few high points that I hope will aid some of you to help me come up with a recipe to sort this out. I'm monitoring the coolant temp via a scan gauge 2 rather than just the panel gauge.

*Purged cooling system with car running, heat full blast, squeezing hoses
*Heat blows VERY warm solid
*Engine runs at 225 degrees while driving without heat running
*Engine idles at 200 degrees with heat on blower motor high
*Squeezing hoses sloshes coolant in the bottle
*Both fan speeds engage and disengage at certain temp increments
*Running heat on full blast seems to cool the engine better than with it off or temp control on cool

Thank you guy's so much for the help in advance and I would really appreciate some input in helping me get this car running cool again.

Maybe this is one of those systems that must be filled via a vacuum and have the coolant sucked in.
I was thinking fan kick on temp was like 215 plus so not suprised that a scan tool might see 225 if the scaling on it was off a tad. I would not want to see that high of accurate temp with good constant airflow through the radiator.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
The first fan stage kicks on around 210-215 and they higher speed around 220. The gauge needle is about 3/4 scale on the dash. It is definitely running too warm. I really don't know what else to do here.
 

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Think you got a bad thermostat perhaps? I think others have had issues with some of the aftermarket thermostats.
 

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Pull a few spark plugs and take a look. Do they show signs of running too hot? It may be the ignition timing being over advanced. That can cause hot running.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Tom, I was thinking about that but have seen a few threads having the same issue as me and they buy a motorcraft and still run hot.

I'll look at a plug or two, I didn't think timing would change much being all commuter controlled but I want to rule out all possibilities.
 

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Do you have any form of Scan Tool?
Check the timing advance, as mentioned ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Check what the CTS has to say, unplug it, do both fans go full blast?
Not a big fan of non OEM thermostats, I'd change it for the OEM MC RT1104, less than $20
 

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Discussion Starter #10
When I get home I'll see if my scangauge 2 can read timing and post the results.

On another thread with my same exact issue, the OP replaced his new aftermarket thermostat with a new Motorcraft one thinking the same thing and he got the same exact results. Being that this car runs exactly as bad with the aftermarket thermostat as it did with the original tells me the problem is probably not in the thermostat in my car. I'm a bit at my whits end on this one. It sure weeks to be pretty common but I havn't seen a solution for any of the same issues I've come across.

Does this system really need to be vacuum filled?
 

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Do not expect to see any temp under 200 in the summer.
See pic, this from Lin Cont in pristine condition.
The thermostat just manages the minimum temp of ~195.
Fans do the rest. 220F is not an issue.

Gage temp is a non issue. There are no numbers on the temp gage for a reason. It does not matter inside the "normal" range. It is not accurate.

Sometimes best to not try to fix what ain't broke.

-chart-
 

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When I get home I'll see if my scangauge 2 can read timing and post the results.

On another thread with my same exact issue, the OP replaced his new aftermarket thermostat with a new Motorcraft one thinking the same thing and he got the same exact results. Being that this car runs exactly as bad with the aftermarket thermostat as it did with the original tells me the problem is probably not in the thermostat in my car. I'm a bit at my whits end on this one. It sure weeks to be pretty common but I havn't seen a solution for any of the same issues I've come across.

Does this system really need to be vacuum filled?
I thought on your first post that all was well and there was a sudden overheat issue directly related to the water pump shattering. One thought that came to me as I type was were all the parts of that water pump recovered? On a car of that vintage, I might also suspect how much buildup there is in the radiator effecting cooling and wonder if the fans run are running at the proper speed. Had an issue like that on one Taurus where the fan worked but just ran a little slow and would cause the car to run hot.
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
I thought on your first post that all was well and there was a sudden overheat issue directly related to the water pump shattering. One thought that came to me as I type was were all the parts of that water pump recovered? On a car of that vintage, I might also suspect how much buildup there is in the radiator effecting cooling and wonder if the fans run are running at the proper speed. Had an issue like that on one Taurus where the fan worked but just ran a little slow and would cause the car to run hot.
I agree that 220 may not be considered overheating. But, this car always ran at 1/4 scale for decades until the pump failed. Since then it runs at 3/4, that's not right. Period. I know the dash gauge isn't considered very accurate but I have backed it up with numbers and it's accurate enough to see something is very wrong. I recovered most of the pieces but I think a small piece was missing. I'm wandering if that may be an issue. But, what are the chances of the same exact thing happening to the other threads with the same exact issue?

The fans are both running at the same and correct speeds. This thing was functioning perfectly until the water pump let go. Now it's running really hot with all the new parts.
 

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Well I would start with an infrared thermometer gun and get some readings on different locations of the coolant flow system: hoses, rad outlet, engine outlet to rad etc.
 

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I agree that 220 may not be considered overheating. But, this car always ran at 1/4 scale for decades until the pump failed. Since then it runs at 3/4, that's not right. Period. I know the dash gauge isn't considered very accurate but I have backed it up with numbers and it's accurate enough to see something is very wrong. I recovered most of the pieces but I think a small piece was missing. I'm wandering if that may be an issue. But, what are the chances of the same exact thing happening to the other threads with the same exact issue?

The fans are both running at the same and correct speeds. This thing was functioning perfectly until the water pump let go. Now it's running really hot with all the new parts.
How about the design of the new pump? At least on the Vulvan motor some of the replacement pumps do not have the same impeller design as the OEM pump. I am not sure about the 24v motor. Just trying to toss out some ideas here.
 

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+1 ^ Good point there. When I replaced the water pump on my 3.0 Vulcan, the impeller design was identical. Also I replaced the whole unit, not just the impeller, and the existing impeller was perfect - It was the bearings that had gone.

I haven't had any issues with overheating/running too hot.

What was the state of the impeller? near perfect or worn? I'm wondering if it was worn, the coolant wasn't circulating too well, and the sudden force of a new pump caused some crap to dislodge and get stuck somewhere?
 

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The impeller on my replacement was metal :)
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Well, I've been trying to troubleshoot some more with this thing. It's still running way too hot. With the air all off it runs at 222-225. That's too hot. If I turn the defrost on full hot and the fan on full i can get it down to about 202. I have a scan gauge 2 that I think shows ignition timing. I'm not sure what the parameters should be but it reads around 8 at idle and rougly 24-28 while driving.

Should I be testing for a head gasket failure or something? I have no steam out of the exhaust or water in the oil. But, SOMETHING has happened when the water pump impeller shattered to cause a chronic running hot problem which was not there before. Maybe it's either a piece of the impeller lodged somewhere or combustion gases heating up the coolant in the heads? I have no idea.
 

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Alright, a few things first. What is the coolant percentage in the system? Go buy a tester if you don't have one and report back.

When you replaced the pump, did you back flush through the block so water came out the water pump holes? Was the radiator back flushed to remove any pieces?

What effect does speed have on the cooling? Is the temp higher or lower at 70 MPH vs. 35?

I know you don't believe it will help, but Motorcraft thermostat may be worth a shot if you are out of ideas...
 
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