Taurus Car Club of America : Ford Taurus Forum banner

1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,552 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
96 Taurus GL with 177K miles.

Got the codes read at autozone.

Got p1400 which seems to be the DPFE sensor. (I had changed this 6 yrs, 45K miles back). Oh well another $45.


What concerns me is the P0430. Could P0430 be due to the P1400?

Also the P0430 print out says "probable" causes:
1. Cat convertor defective (#2, 3, or 4). Are there 4 cats? or are these references to the four O2 sensors?
2. Engine misfire.
3. Large vac leak.
4. Oil leak into exhaust valve guide seals, piston rings.


Thx!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,283 Posts
The P0430 is right up my alley. The P0430 code means the catalytic converter is not functioning properly. This won't go away by itself, but it was likely caused by another problem.

Typically the converter fails due to a long term rich condition that damages and overheats the catalyst. A misfire will definitely contribute, as will a vacuum leak. Oil leak will only cause the problem if its a pretty severe oil leak. But in my experience, i the problem is not immediately apparent, it is most often old worn out O2 sensors. The O2 sensors are considered maintenance items to be replaced roughly every 80,000 miles, or every major tune up. If they are not changed, they get neglected till they start to fail, and will usually kill a cat long before the computer detects that they are faulty. The car is getting along in age, so any of these problems could contribute.

Once the code has set, about the only way to make it go away is first identify and repair the underlying cause of the catalyst damage, then replace the faulty converter.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,365 Posts
The P1400 could be due to the P0430. Excessive backpressure can destroy the DPFE sensor. How is your fuel economy? If it's poor then the evidence leads to a plugged cat. (I thought the Vulcan only had one?). I agree with oxygen sensor replacement (2 needed, upstream), you can get NGk/NTK new cheap off ebay, they're original equipment. Also I'd be interested in things like cleanliness of MAF element, vacuum leaks and intake gasket integrity, anything that would contribute to long-term rich adjustments. Do it all at once and have it running well for a while.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,552 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
OK, reading all that I gather that, the first thing to isolate/change is o2 sensors?

P0430 says cat efficiency low bank2

1. Which one is bank 2? Front exhaust manifold side or the rear / (behind the motor)manifold? Each bank has two O2 sensors right?

2. Thoughts on if I need to replace all four 02 sensors? I don't plan to keep this car beyond next 2 months. I just need to get the inspection done for now...


3. Are the oxygen sensors the same between Gen3 and Gen 4 vulcans?

Thx
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23,363 Posts
Bank2 is the front bank (radiator). Might try changing out the dpfe sensor and cleaning the egr passageway from the valve to the uim first and clearing the codes. Often a faulty dpfe will illuminate a number of erroneous codes along with its own.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,365 Posts
To be blunt, I'm not sure why you'd spend money on a car you're going to dump in 2 months. Catalytic converter replacement will be expensive, not including a couple of sensors. You could try turning off the light before inpsection and running it hard on the highway. The light won't reset for at least 5 drive cycles.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,552 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
WJC,
Sure I can try that. But I think I need to fix at least the DPFE.

Won't the OBD say not-ready when the inspection guy reads the codes?

I cleaned the EGR tube & passages, the DPFE sensor itself and disconnected the batt for about 5 mins, the MIL light came on with in under 5 miles of driving. (Not sure if 5 mins is enough)

I haven't read the codes again. So not sure if both p1400 or p0430 are set.

Here in NC they read the OBD codes at inspection that's pretty much it, they don't even open the hood.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,283 Posts
Ok, the O2 sensors may be partly at fault, but they will not likely make your P0430 code go away. P0430 is telling your your catalytic converter isn't working, not that your sensors are faulty. The sensors are something you would replace along with the converter.

I agree, deal with the DPFE sensor/EGR issue first, clear the codes, see if the problem comes back or not. If it does come back, you will need to deal with the converter. Since you don't plan on keeping the car, no point is replacing the sensors, just fix the cat and let the buyer deal with it further down the road.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23,363 Posts
I had numerous problems with the dpfes (duralast or wells) from az. Light reappeared in 3-5 mi. Switched to the borg-warner (part# egr155) from adv. auto or oreillys and have never had another egr (dpfe) code. That part# applies to a gen3 tec but probably is the same for a vulcan?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,552 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Ok, the O2 sensors may be partly at fault, but they will not likely make your P0430 code go away. P0430 is telling your your catalytic converter isn't working, not that your sensors are faulty. The sensors are something you would replace along with the converter.

I agree, deal with the DPFE sensor/EGR issue first, clear the codes, see if the problem comes back or not. If it does come back, you will need to deal with the converter. Since you don't plan on keeping the car, no point is replacing the sensors, just fix the cat and let the buyer deal with it further down the road.

I changed the DPFE sensor, disconnected the batt for about 20 mins & reconnected.

Have driven about 25 miles, no MIL light yet! Will drive some more.

How long does the OBD2 cycle to set all monitors to ready?
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
8,590 Posts
It will take more than 20 mins of driving for the cat efficiency monitor to complete. EGR monitor has robably been completed in 20 min depending on the type of driving you did. A scan tool would show you which IM monitors are completed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,552 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
You were right. EGR/DPFE p1400 is fixed.

But I got the P0430 after almost 105 miles of driving. It seemed to come on when I was doing more of stop & go city driving... (This code does not come on summer only winters! Dam cats)

Well now I cannot go for the NC inspection (which includes obd2) without fixing the cat I suppose. (since the cat monitors have to be ready I guess.)
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
8,590 Posts
Check your local emission test information / laws. Some places you pass with 1 and possibly 2 IM monitors not complete. Some places, all IM monitors must be complete.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,552 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
nope not here in NC for 96 & newer. Flunk the test if the light is on. period.

I guess time to try the O2 sensor spaces!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,552 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
My car does have a slight exhaust leak before the cats... but not sure where or which bank. If I could locate it, I was planning to put some high temp sealant.

Can this leak lead to P0430?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
NC inspection allows up to 2 monitors not be ready and still will pass.
Have the codes cleared and then drive till the monitors are ready. Really
helps to have a reader to watch monitors.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,552 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
NC inspection allows up to 2 monitors not be ready and still will pass.
Have the codes cleared and then drive till the monitors are ready. Really
helps to have a reader to watch monitors.
You are right,
per this website NCDENR - Division of Air Quality - Motor Vehicle Inspection and Maintenance (I/M) Program - FAQ

"The vehicle must be driven in order to set the OBDII monitors to a ready state. Some vehicles become ready very easily while some are more difficult to become "ready".
Acceptable limit of not-ready monitors are:
2 - for all 1996-2000 model year vehicles"


So you are saying, reset the codes drive just enough so that the P0430 is not yet ready?. (P0430 came back only only after 100 miles of driving)
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
8,590 Posts
Yup, clear codes and drive until all but cat efficiency monitor is complete (probably 20 to 40 miles of varied driving) and then go in for the test before the CEL trips on for the 430. Note that EVAP test doesnt run in cold temps (like under 30 to 40 deg) so that one will take forever to reset. If you are allowed 2 incomplete, EVAP and cat efficiency are the 2!!!!
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Top