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Discussion Starter #1
It's my turn to ask the exeprts... anyone ever seen or dealt with a P0411 Code before? Here's what I've gathered so far:
QUOTE
DTC P0411 - Secondary Air Injection (AIR) system upstream flow

POSSIBLE CAUSES: See DTC P1411

DTC P1411 - Secondary Air Injection (AIR) system downstream flow

The secondary air injection system did not detect the presence of air in the exhaust when introduced by the secondary air injection  system

POSSIBLE CAUSES:

l Electric AIR Pump
l Hose from AIR pump leak
l AIR bypass solenoid leak/blocked
l Hose from AIR pump blocked
l AIR bypass solenoid stuck open/closed

DIAGNOSTIC AIDES:

In order to test the AIR pump, it must be capable of driving the HO2S lean.

OVERVIEW:

The Secondary Air Injection (AIR) system controls emissions during the first 20 to 120 seconds of engine operation by forcing air downstream into the exhaust manifolds to oxidize the Hydrocarbons and Carbon Monoxide created by running rich at start up.

Electric Secondary Air Injection System

The Electric Secondary Air Injection (AIR) system consists of an Electric Air Pump (EAP), single or dual combination Check Air Injection Diverter (AIR Diverter) Valve(s), an AIR Bypass solenoid, a Solid State Relay, Powertrain Control Module (PCM) and connecting wires and vacuum hoses (Figure 172).

1. The PCM requires ECT, IAT and rpm inputs to initiate Secondary Air Injection function.

2. When the engine is started, the strategy will determine when to enable the EAP. The PCM signals the Solid State Relay and the AIR Bypass solenoid, after a 10 second delay, to begin system operation. Once the catalyst is lit-off, the PCM then signals the Solid State Relay to stop Air Pump operation and the AIR Bypass solenoid to stop the vacuum supply to the AIR Diverter valve(s).

3. The Solid State Relay provides the start-up signal and will switch this high current required to operate the Air Pump.

4. The AIR Bypass solenoid applies a vacuum to the AIR Diverter valve(s) causing it to open and to allow air to flow into the exhaust manifolds.

5. The function of the Splash Cap is to provide the Air Pump with a source of dry air, if equipped.

6.The Electric Air Pump delivers the required amount of air which controls emissions during engine operation. Air is forced into the exhaust manifolds to oxidize the Hydrocarbons and Carbon Monoxide created by running rich at start up[/b]
Any comments or suggestions, on this one? My Ford Manual really doesn't say much at all about the Electric AIR Pump assembly.

TIA
 

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Uh....Silvapain, I don't mean to state the obvious, but read the title of the post.


QUOTE
P0411 Code On My '97 Vulcan[/b]
Adam
 

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CRAP. I never read the titles fully. My fault Rock.


Only California Vulcans have secondaries.

The Electric air pump is located on the subframe. that's about all the Haynes manual says about it. Also, it says there is a relay for it, and that if you connect the battery voltage straight to the pump, it should run.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks for the info on the pump.

FWIW, the CarFax for my '97 Taurus does not show it ever to have been in CA. It was built in Georgia and registered there first, and then 44K later it made it's way up here to CT for good. But I'm not sure what that means.

I did some more digging, here is what my Ford Manual says:
QUOTE
The Secondary Air Injection (AIR) System Monitor is an on-board strategy designed to monitor the proper function of the secondary air injection system. The AIR Monitor for the Electric Secondary Air Injection Pump system consists of two monitor circuits: an AIR circuit to diagnose concerns with the primary circuit side of the solid state relay (SSR), and an AIR Monitor circuit to diagnose concerns with the secondary circuit side of the SSR. A functional check is also performed that tests the ability of the AIR system to inject air into the exhaust. The functional check relies upon HO2S sensor feedback to determine the presence of air flow. The monitor is enabled during AIR system operation and only after certain base engine conditions are first satisfied. Input is required from the ECT, IAT, and CKP sensors and the HO2S Monitor test must also have passed without a fault detection to enable the AIR Monitor. The AIR Monitor is also activated during on demand self-test.

1. The AIR circuit is normally held high through the AIR bypass solenoid and SSR when the output driver is off. Therefore a low AIR circuit indicates a driver is always on and a high circuit indicates an open in the PCM.

The DTC associated with this test is DTC P0412.

2. The AIR Monitor circuit is held low by the resistance path through the AIR pump when the pump is off. If the AIR Monitor circuit is high there is either an open circuit to the PCM from the pump or there is power supplied to the AIR Pump. If the AIR Monitor is low when the pump is commanded on, there is either an open circuit from the SSR or the SSR has failed to supply power to the pump.

The DTCs associated with this test are DTCs P1413 and P1414.

3. The functional check may be done in two parts: at startup when the AIR pump is normally commanded on, or during a hot idle if the startup test was not able to be performed. The flow test relies upon the HO2S to detect the presence of additional air in the exhaust when introduced by the Secondary Air Injection system.

The DTC associated with this test is DTC P0411.

4.The MIL is activated after one of the above tests fail on two consecutive drive cycles.[/b]
So it seems that my situation would fall under #3, and that somehow my H02S is not detecting additional oxygen in the exhaust when there should be some in there??

As I said, I'm a little perplexed. I don't recall ever reading anything about this before.
 

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..but that would mean that BOTH your H02S would go out at the same time, right? The other thing is, the Haynes manual states that the Secondary air injection system only operates in the first 20-120 seconds after startup - BEFORE the H02S have a chance to get up to the proper 600F.

I would check to see if you even have a secondary air injection system. if not, then the PCM is trying to turn on something you don't have, and of course would throw a code, because the H02S can't detect more air coming from a pump that doesn't exist.

I would think that the PCM's for all states would be the same, but a jumper (or something like that) would be used to disable that function for non-California cars. Maybe a jumper got dislodged somewhere.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks for the reply. So these Secondary AIR systems are only on CA vehicles?

And because of that, it's possible that my PCM is giving a false code for some reason, since my non-CA Vulcan it doesn't have one? I will have to consider that as a cause, then.

QUOTE
..but that would mean that BOTH your H02S would go out at the same time, right?[/b]
I see your point, but it might be that only one 02 sensor needs to register low on oxygen to trip the code while the "System Monitor" test is being performed. which seems to be consistent, too, with the following: (View Source)

QUOTE
AIR System Monitor

The secondary air system utilizes an electric air pump as well as one or two electrically controlled check valves to deliver air into the exhaust manifold. The AIR pump flow check monitors the HO2S signal at idle to determine if secondary air is being delivered into the exhaust system. The air/fuel ratio is commanded open-loop rich, the AIR pump is turned on and the time required for the HO2S signal to go lean is monitored. If the HO2S signal does not go lean within the allowable time limit, a low/no flow malfunction is indicated. (P0411) The electric air pump draws high current and must be energized through a separate relay. Both the primary and secondary circuits are checked for opens and shorts. First, the output driver within the PCM (primary circuit) is checked for circuit continuity (P0412). This circuit energizes the relay and the control valve(s). Next, a feedback
circuit from the secondary side of the relay to the PCM is used to check secondary circuit continuity (P1413, P1414).

AIR Monitor Operation:

DTCs P0411 functional check, P0412, P1413, P1414 circuit checks
Monitor execution:  Functional - once per driving cycle, circuit checks - continuous
Monitor Sequence:  Oxygen sensor monitor complete and OK
Sensors OK: ECT
Monitoring Duration:  20 seconds at idle

Typical AIR functional check entry conditions:

Time since engine start-up:  600 seconds
Engine Coolant Temp: 50F
Short Term Fuel Trim: 12.5%
Fuel Tank Pressure: 4.5 in H2O
Closed Throttle: at idle rpm
Purge Fuel Flow: 0 lb/min 0.2 lb/min

Note: No P0411 DTC is stored if IAT < 20 oF at the start of the functional test although the test runs. (Precludes against identifying a temporary, frozen check valve.)

Typical AIR functional check malfunction thresholds:

Minimum time allowed for HO2S sensor to indicate lean: < 4 seconds[/b]
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I found it!

My Secondary AIR Pump is located underneath the battery tray support (see outline in pic below), kinda next to where radiator drain plug is. Looks a little tight under there, but manageable. So I decided to take the rest of the afternoon off to dig in a little deeper (got an emissions test coming up in the spring), and I'll post back with any info.

Also, I found some more information in my Ford Manual regarding the Secondary AIR System, which I added to my original post.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Found the problem!
(Pretty sure I did, anyway)

Take a look below at the harness connector that goes to the pump, do you see any kind of breaks in the wires that could be causing my troubles? (I count 4
)

My hypothesis: The wires were all tightly wound around each other and pinched tight, so they must have been rubbing back and forth all these years, and then when the insulation finally broke down enough, the current start arcing across the various wires. Sound reasonable?
 

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is there any evidence of the wire jacket melting? Is the copper strand green/black or brittle? A picture is never as good as looking at the real thing, but it looks to me more like it is the result of a physical pinching, like if you crush a wire with wire strippers or something. Also, did you try jumpering the pump right off the battery to see if it worked properly? all that arcing could really cause havac with the windings on that pump's motor.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
It looked like a mixture of both ...there was some definite evidence of "crimping" of the wires but also some minor evidence of melting insulation. The exposed parts of the copper wires looked a bit tanished, though, and not really like a lot of sparks had been flying around or anything like that.
I did end up hitting the copper parts with some emery cloth just a tad before repairing the broken insulation on the wires. And on the right-most wire, the one with the biggest chunk of copper wire gone (I'd say it was about 1/2 its usual thickness), I decided to heat the exposed wire up and melt in a drop of solder as a kind of "patch" which seemingly worked well.

I did not test the motor by applying 12v directly to it, the main reason being is I couldn't find the wiring schematic to tell me which wires were which, and I didn't want to risk frying anything, especially when I was pretty sure that the circuit was probably just shorted by what is shown in the second picture.

I did end up taking off the pump cover plate, which is located toward the front of the car (not visible in first pic), to get at the small air filter inside there, and although it looked OK, I cleaned it out with solvent anyway and dried it out thoroughly. I cleaned the harness connections with contact cleaner, put a little dilectric grease on there, and buttoned it all up. I've taken 3-4 test drives since then, city and highway, and so far no CEL. My fingers are still crossed, but like I said, I feel pretty confident about the fix.

Thanks for the feedback, I'll be sure to post if anything interesting happens from here.
 

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Im having the same issues with my 97 Taurus GL 3.0 Vulcan. Mine is also the P0411 code so my car identifies with cause #3 as well. I checked the pump and it fucntions properly. I connected it directly to the battery and it spins. I put it back and the code was gone. Then about 20 miles later it came back on when I was sitting idle at a stop light. Now Im assuming because it was hot and I was idle I may have an issue with HO2S ?

I took it to a mechanic and all he found was that my Camshaft Positioning Sensor was completely destroyed. I replaced the sensor and the drive assembly cause that half moon was destroyed. The code was gone again (probably because I unplugged the battery). Then poof again 20 miles later at a stop light the light is back on and the same code comes up. The car runs fine except for the speedometer needle that sort of stutters between 5-30 miles an hour.

Im stuck now I dont know what to do. This damn car has had a rejection sticker for over a year and I really need to get it inspected. Any ideas ?

Thanks
 

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As stated years ago in this thread :)

The SAI only works during the first 20-120 seconds of the engine being started. If at this time the O2s aren't heated and sense the additional O2, then it will test at some other time. Probably when you were at idle. If the O2s don't sense the extra oxygen after the second test it set the code.

Probably a bad relay.
 

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So even though the pump worked when I connected it directly to the battery the relay could still cease to allow it to function when I start the car up ? Sorry for sounding dumb I just dont want to do the wrong thing. Its a real PITA to take that sucker out.

Thanks for the reply BTW
 

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Yes if the relay is no good it can't pass the electricity to the motor.

I took mine out for good after the second one. You can usually find the pump and relay for $25 on eBay.
 

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I also have a P0412 code on my '96 sable Duratec but have been unable to find any info about it till I read this thread. Today I had to take my car in for the emissions test and it failed the 40kph tests, though passed the idle tests. The SES light was on.

Have to take it in thursday for a full diagnostics to see exactly what is wrong. I am hoping it's not the catalytic converters as those are not something I can get off the junk yards.
 

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Yes that is the pump. The black end is usually pointing down and the relay is under the pump attached to the same bracket.
 

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Ah nice man thanks a lot. :notworthy:

I know Im a pain. But when you pulled yours did it burn up your catalytic converter ? Would it do that ? Im thinkin no but :dunno:

Thanks again man :bowrofl:
 
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