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Discussion Starter #1
Just watched CCR on the Cdn SPEED channel, saw an interesting idea to increase the life of the Taurus transaxles! These guys were rebuilding a Ford Ranger and used a method designed to increase the life of the tansmission and transfer case. Get this, they stripped all the gears and bolts from the trans (and xfer case), took them to a liquid nitrogen supplier and had the parts frozen for 24 hours, brought back to room temperature for another 12 and baked them at 300 degrees for another 12.

I have heard of this for tools, (drill bits, etc) for hardening, does this actually work for for gear sets and bolts?? How much would something like this cost?? worth doing? Too bad FoMoCo couldn't do this, they would probably never sell any replacement gears again though!


How about other parts, axles, or engine parts?
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Oops, sorry, muliple post, had an error the first time I tried to post it and thought it didn't work...

Oh well...
 

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Hmm.
It seems like doing that could actually make the parts brittle. They would be harder, but their structure would be compromised in the process, making them brittle.

However, if the cooling and heating were'nt done too quickly, that may not be a problem.
 

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i think i saw something similar to this in the sho section... Maybe someone will chime in that remebers it more.
 

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this is one of the hardening techniques... I read in metallurgy long backk =) forgot the name...
these have to be done carefully with alot of research done..
otehrwise u would increase internal stresses.. and cause premature failue..
 

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Yeah, a couple of SHO folk are going to get their tranny internals cryo'ed (erm cryogenically treated?) because they keep breaking them with their SC'ed engines
 

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Discussion Starter #7
If I understood the show correctly, it takes a full 3 days for the complete process, 24 hours just to freeze the parts with 12 hours each for the return to room temp and the heating. Is that gentle enough or would a longer time be needed for the room temp part?

I would imagine its not just the SHO's with blown trannies, mine is going on my '96 Vulcan too...
 

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It would depend on the part...basically how heavy it is, its density etc. You basically do not want to bring it up back to normal temp too fast or else the chemical bonds between the molecules will not have enough time to settle together in their strongest form.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Any idea how much something like this would cost? Or a shop able to provide this in/near western Canada?

Thanks!!
 

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I got a quote for rotors to be done from a place near me that makes racing brake parts. They cryogenically freeze the parts and slowly bring them to room temperature. If I supplied the rotors, they would charge $60 each and I would have to wait a week or two, since they waited for larger batches to be done at once. I passed up on the offer and bought some $20 rotors from discound auto that lasted 30,000 miles and still were good when I traded the car in.

In the transmission, there are many problems that can occur. For instance, on my 00' SEL, the tranny had electrical problems resulting in 2 of the 3 shift silanoids burning up, thus creating havoc and a $2,200 repair bill on a car that wasn't even 3 years old(milage was 40,000
, so no warrenty coverage). So, this process on a tranny will NOT make it bullet proof and it would more than double the cost of a rebuild. So you would be looking at a cost of $4,000-$5,000 I guess to get this done. Is it worth it? I think not, but I leave that for you to decide.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
It would double the tranny rebuild?? Ouch!


Crap, I have burnt fluid with some sticky shifting and was hoping it would be a way to get better life out of it (I drive -really- hard...) Bulletproof isn't really necessary, just longer life for the major (expensive) parts...

Any idea how much the gears, and other internals are? I assume the case is fine, no obvious holes or cracks, yet... $60 for a single brake rotor is lower than I thought it would be, (rotors up here are over $140, each, for the rotor itself) does the price depend on the part, the size, or weight, (or combination?) I assume if you aked the shop to do all the parts as a single batch, it would be more?
 
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Cryogenically treating metal parts puts the "grain" of the particles in a denser concentration. It's hard to explain, but the denser the concentration of the molecules, the stronger the part will be. The SHO people seem to be making out well with their cryo'd gears, however the reason for failure on them is the shaft that the gear mounts on flexes, causing side loading to the gear, and breakage. Adding power just multiplies this effect. IMO, it's a bandaid fix for the problem, but until someone comes up with something better, it's all they've got.

On the Taurus ATX, I don't think cryogenically treating the parts will help any. Usually the things that fail are not broken gears, etc. but rather torque converters, clutches, etc.
 

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And if you have burnt fluid then you need to change it.

Hardening the ATX parts wouldn't do much good. There are already better parts that you can install. Most come in a TransGo kit. Then add an extra clutch and steel to the 1,2,3 gears. This with a good cooler and fluid changes before it is burnt and carbonizing the internals is how to keep a tranny going. Be sure to get the TC beefed up when changing the tranny.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Thanks for that TransGo info!! I was just checking out their site, that sounds like it would be perfect! http://www.txchange.com/main.htm

I will just have to see if I can afford what I need, (the prices on their ebay store are US$ I assume, x 25% to convert to canadian).


Do the '96 vehicles have at least the rad mounted trans cooler already? It is such a tight fit, I can't tell from the top of the engine bay, (sorry, don't have ramps right now to get underneath,)

TC - Tranny cooler I assume?
 

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There is a factory tranny cooler that goes through your radiator and an additional (very small) one that is external. Over the past few years it has been determanned that this still is not sufficient with our trannies. I would look for a "stacked plate" design. They usually fun for $45-$85 or so depending on size and brand. It is kind of tricky to get in there to find a perfect spot for it, but it isn't too bad. The actual hooking up of the hoses is very simple. If you want more info. I think thre is some on the modifications page or just ask around on here. Good Luck.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Oh good, I didn't think they had both... I can probably just replace the secondary cooler with a bigger and better one then.

Ford and their trannys, ugh. I had a '79 full size wagon with the same problem. Get this, my old wagon had a 5.8L Windsor V8 and stupidly, a C4 auto trans backing it up. What a P-O-S combo.


That platform had an optional C6, but I didn't have that one in it, crap.. I burnt that C4 4 times in 5 years!!!!

I wonder if Old Henry Ford would be proud or turning in his grave eh?

Whats the biggest trans cooler anyone has gotten to fit with a minimum of metal cutting? I was thinking the nose support right on front of the rad?
 

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Mine is a Hayden #679 stacked plate, #30,000. It is the biggest they offer. Deminsions are: 9 7/8 x 11 x 3/4. They say it is rated for Heavy Duty driving, Class A motor homes, large travel trailers, and 5th wheels. Is this over kill?

Not in South Florida, and an occacional heavy foot in stop n' go traffic.

I put this in in January, and I just notticed that it wasn't in my garage. LOL time to update.....
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Lets see... South Florida... Lead foot Larry driving... Buggy tranny... Sounds like almost enough to me...


But Holly Hannah, that thing must be HUGE! Just a slight bit smaller than the rad eh?
Can you measure the fluid temp while your driving to see how much it helps? Bet it is pretty cool, if its after the rad cooler...

Oh wow, their website is awesome!! www.haydenauto.com

Now I just got to save up BIG TIME! I can get a cooler for my '79 t-bird too! Mmmm can't wait...


Is an engine oil cooler recommended too? Could kill 2 birds with one store!

Oops, its their info page, can't order from it, how much was your #679? Any info available on pricing? Or available by call only?
 

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I think I paid $80 @ Pepboys. I did a lot of research and I couldn't find it much cheaper on the net(with shipping and handling).
 
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