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Discussion Starter #1
Ok firstly....excuse me if this is being posted in the wrong place. i browsed the forums looking for a suitable spot and wasn't sure wheather to post in General or the bull stable.

Anyway. anyone who's followed my last post knows i had a Car Accident on the 5th that unfortunately brought an end to my bull (1999 Ford Taurus SE) though i believe the car may actually still Run the front end was pretty messed up so i was doubting if it was worth saving.

so i went car shopping Today. and what stands out to me of course at a lot we went to was a 2005 Ford Taurus. without a price tag. they were negotiable on the price & eventually the Taurus was bought for 2500 & that includes everything. test drove the car & all was well....except for a few nagging issues which ill explain below.

The Good.

The car runs & drives fine.....the Vulcan V6 has fine power off the line & when passing....it's quiter & somewhat smoother running than the Vulcan in my other Taurus. the transmission shifts relatively smoothly & Quicker than the Transmission in my last bull. (i had got used to the somewhat lazy shifts of that one)

the exterior of the car is in OK shape. save for a few Flaws....like a Cracked side mirror housing that appears to have some sort of glue or resin bonding it. and various body dings.

the interior of the car is also in decent shape....some paint is wearing off some plastic pieces but that seems like normal wear.


Now.....to those issues i mentioned before....the car's already purchased so whatever issues present....im going to tackle them.

1. The center display in the instrument panel say's "Check Charging System" & at night you can see the battery light is actually lit but it appears someone TRIED to paint over it so it wouldn't Show (Great right?)

2. The Engine seems to have a bit of a misfire @ Idle......as it idles abit chunky...but if you give it enough pressure on the gas to raise the idle a few hundred RPM's it smooths out....but returns when you let it return to Idle speed.

3. The Messege center displays "Low Oil Pressure" & the Low oil pressure light illuminates......this only occurs at idle speed & if you give the engine some throttle....it dissapears.

all i can say is i HOPE i didn't buy something too bad.....my 1999 Bull was relatively reliable after needing some Various repairs pretty Early into ownership.

im pretty impressed by the overall feel on the Road.

however owning two of the same Car one generation i can't help but make comparisons.

the Gen3 Tauri are roomy cars inspite of their sloping trunklid & roofline....but the increased headroom in the back seat plus bigger trunk space are definetly noticable.

The Gen4 Tauri Interior has a mix of soft touch & hard plastics in the interior as the Gen3 does...however i definetly noticed that the materials on the Gen4 look & feel cheaper than those in the Gen3...the fitment is solid its just the materials seem cheaper (Just my opinion,dont rip me a new one)

i secretly wanted a later Gen 4 Tauri for the updated Instrument panel & steering wheel (so i guess i have one)
 

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Probably needs an alternator (common issue on that era of Bull). As for the oil pressure light, that's somewhat worrying. Could be a partially clogged pickup tube, excessive bearing clearance, etc.
 

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Welp, it's not likely to be something that will kill the engine any time soon. If you want, pull the oil pan and do an inspection and see if anything looks highly worn or out of spec. Actually for starters, go into engineering test mode (fun new feature you can access with these cars by holding reset and turning the key to "run" until you see engineering test mode on the display). See what the oil pressure number actually is. It shows up as "rads" and not PSI, but I'm curious as to what it is at idle. I can give you a comparison to my car. You can also see what the computer is seeing as charging voltage. If it shows a solid 13.8, that means that someone installed the wrong alternator during a previous replacement (the older style of alt had self regulation, your car is PCM regulated).

Even if it is a worst case bearing clearance issue, the engine will probably run a long time as long as you do regular oil changes. Especially if it's working normally and not making any odd noises. A replacement Vulcan is also like $300 these days too so it wouldn't be the end of the world if it needed replacement.

As for the misfires, I would start by looking and seeing if any codes are pending/stored. I would also check the plugs and plug wires, and the coil for cracks. Easy starting point.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
well i took the car for a quick run down the Freeway to gather some specs.

i followed the procedure to put the IC in "Engineering Test Mode"

i Took care to note the displayed battery Voltage as well as the Oil Pressure.

the Battery Voltage reads 12.1 Volts with the Car not running.....with the car running the battery Voltage maintained 14.5-14.6 Volts....which is quite abit over 13.8

The Oil Pressure light did not come on this drive....despite bringing the car to opperating temp. throughout the Drive the oil pressure maintained 232-234 RADS.

however i will be watching to see if the light comes on & at what pressure reads when the Oil Light Activates.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Welp, it's not likely to be something that will kill the engine any time soon. If you want, pull the oil pan and do an inspection and see if anything looks highly worn or out of spec. Actually for starters, go into engineering test mode (fun new feature you can access with these cars by holding reset and turning the key to "run" until you see engineering test mode on the display). See what the oil pressure number actually is. It shows up as "rads" and not PSI, but I'm curious as to what it is at idle. I can give you a comparison to my car. You can also see what the computer is seeing as charging voltage. If it shows a solid 13.8, that means that someone installed the wrong alternator during a previous replacement (the older style of alt had self regulation, your car is PCM regulated).

Even if it is a worst case bearing clearance issue, the engine will probably run a long time as long as you do regular oil changes. Especially if it's working normally and not making any odd noises. A replacement Vulcan is also like $300 these days too so it wouldn't be the end of the world if it needed replacement.

As for the misfires, I would start by looking and seeing if any codes are pending/stored. I would also check the plugs and plug wires, and the coil for cracks. Easy starting point.

Ok took the car out for a longer drive....Oil Light comes whenever im coming to a Stop & the RPM's drop to Idle speed.

Again.....the Light will go off if i pick RPM's back up enough to generate Oil Pressure....this seems to only happen when the engine is compleatly warmed up & Only at Idle Speed.

Reguarding the Oil Pressure in the center display.....upon further research i discovered that the sensor is only really an oil pressure switch....232-234 Rad when the light is off....and drops to 0 Rad which then triggers the Oil Light seconds later.
 

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Welp, guess you can take the oil pan off and see if anything stands out. Id just live with it though. Warm idle results in the lowest engine speed and thus pressure. Its probably barely below the switch threshold. Im fairly sure it wont grenade, many people have had this issue.

Oh, you can also try putting 5W30 in it and see if it stops. Totally safe to do so.

As for the charging system light, I'm not sure why it's lit if you're seeing that kind of generator voltage. What happens if you turn on every accessory except rear defrost (headlights and blower on high)? If it drops below 13.5 there's a problem. That may be why it's lit. The cluster should have also logged a DTC code which will tell you what condition it saw that lit the lamp. Engineering test mode or a scanner can show you those codes.
 

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Ok took the car out for a longer drive....Oil Light comes whenever im coming to a Stop & the RPM's drop to Idle speed.

Again.....the Light will go off if i pick RPM's back up enough to generate Oil Pressure....this seems to only happen when the engine is compleatly warmed up & Only at Idle Speed.

Reguarding the Oil Pressure in the center display.....upon further research i discovered that the sensor is only really an oil pressure switch....232-234 Rad when the light is off....and drops to 0 Rad which then triggers the Oil Light seconds later.
It's been some years since I had an engine that did this. Sounds like the on board electronics isn't going to be much help. You could go get a mechanical oil pressure gauge and a suitable T fitting (so that you can retain the oil pressure switch.) Hook it all up and see what your hot idle pressure is. On my old Toyota, it was the crank journals and bearings-slow death for an engine.Yours could also be bad cam journals and bearings.

As someone else pointed out, used Vulcans are so cheap and plentiful, it doesn't pay to even consider rebuilding. They are not easy to remove and reinstall, tho. And if you have to pay someone to do the work, it probably is cost prohibitive. I did the engine on my 01 and it was an adventure. Replaced a 212,000 mi. engine with one that only had 110,000*. The engine isn't all I replace--new engine, trannie, and dogbone parts, all the hoses, the radiator and thermostat, and a bunch of suspension parts. I'm pretty happy with the results.

If you can't manage the work yourself, find a low income person to do the work. I don't mean this in a racist way, but here in Tucson, there are a variety of extremely talented Hispanic mechanics. My Hispanic nephew (in Reno) can even rebuild automatic transmissions.

It can be done in a carport, but it's an adventure,:unsure:

*I got mine at a wrecking yard and it came with a one year warranty, steam cleaned, compression readings, and an oil pressure reading. It was a lot more than $300.
 

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Probably needs an alternator (common issue on that era of Bull). As for the oil pressure light, that's somewhat worrying. Could be a partially clogged pickup tube, excessive bearing clearance, etc.
Being a Vulcan the FIRST thing I would suspect is the cam synchro, and move on from there.


Is there any chirping at idle? Also what do the RPM's drop to at idle because if it's too low, there might not be enough rpm to effectively have enough oil pressure which would trip the light. Same goes for the alternator. Do you have an ELM and Forscan? If not, get one because that will give you MUCH more information about the car and what it's doing than the information center. I would also hook it up to a scanner now, just to be certain that there were no codes, or pending codes, having the possibility of the CEL light being blown out. If you turn the key to on(do not start it) does the CEL go on, then shut off after a couple seconds? You'd be surprised at what dealers do to get a car pushed off their lots....... Is there any warranty with this car being that you bought it from a lot? I would be bringing it back to them for the money you paid.


Can you take a video of the car running at cold and warm idle then post it? That would help.


I'm going to be honest with you as I'm not into sugar coating things...... I think you got hosed for $2500. The check charging system, and oil light would have made me run fast and hard away from it at that price knowing the possibilities of the issues and knowing there are others out there that are mostly sound drivers at that price.
 

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I'm going to be honest with you as I'm not into sugar coating things...... I think you got hosed for $2500. The check charging system, and oil light would have made me run fast and hard away from it at that price knowing the possibilities of the issues and knowing there are others out there that are mostly sound drivers at that price.
Afraid so. And the as-is rule puts it all on the buyer. Sounds like the car was not maintained.:(
 

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Being a Vulcan the FIRST thing I would suspect is the cam synchro, and move on from there.


Is there any chirping at idle? Also what do the RPM's drop to at idle because if it's too low, there might not be enough rpm to effectively have enough oil pressure which would trip the light. Same goes for the alternator. Do you have an ELM and Forscan? If not, get one because that will give you MUCH more information about the car and what it's doing than the information center. I would also hook it up to a scanner now, just to be certain that there were no codes, or pending codes, having the possibility of the CEL light being blown out. If you turn the key to on(do not start it) does the CEL go on, then shut off after a couple seconds? You'd be surprised at what dealers do to get a car pushed off their lots....... Is there any warranty with this car being that you bought it from a lot? I would be bringing it back to them for the money you paid.


Can you take a video of the car running at cold and warm idle then post it? That would help.


I'm going to be honest with you as I'm not into sugar coating things...... I think you got hosed for $2500. The check charging system, and oil light would have made me run fast and hard away from it at that price knowing the possibilities of the issues and knowing there are others out there that are mostly sound drivers at that price.
Also worth checking the syncro. I just figured he would have mentioned if it was sounding like cricket city :lol2: And yeah, a code scanner would be a lot more effective for sure. As for him getting hosed? Yeah, kinda. This seems to me more like a $1500 ish car given the issues.
 

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The deed being done I won't add any further comment on the price.
You almost surely have the wrong alternator in there, hence the overcharging and battery light.
In the absence of more info I suspect what John does when it comes to the oil pressure, the revs may be too low. What are you seeing for RPM at idle? Can you define what you mean by "it idles abit chunky" for us? Are there any stored codes? If you are unfamiliar with why the synchro question was asked the synchro and oil pump are driven from the same gear.
As far as "it's not likely to be something that will kill the engine any time soon" goes few things are more dangerous to an engine than legitimately low oil pressure for the commensurate operating revs.
 

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well i took the car for a quick run down the Freeway to gather some specs.

i followed the procedure to put the IC in "Engineering Test Mode"

i Took care to note the displayed battery Voltage as well as the Oil Pressure.

the Battery Voltage reads 12.1 Volts with the Car not running.....with the car running the battery Voltage maintained 14.5-14.6 Volts....which is quite abit over 13.8

The Oil Pressure light did not come on this drive....despite bringing the car to opperating temp. throughout the Drive the oil pressure maintained 232-234 RADS.

however i will be watching to see if the light comes on & at what pressure reads when the Oil Light Activates.
Charging volts are adjusted by the temperature, and as the car can only know the air temp and not the bat temp, it is adjusted according. The chart is for below zero overnight. Colder is higher setting according to the PCM and adjusts down after the time programmed in after starting.

If you have the wrong alt, that is pre '02 the PCM will not be happy and the volts will be managed by the Alt regulator and not the PCM. Will work ok but will not tell you if you are not charging. Light on all the time.

The apparent low oil pressure is OK if it does not knock. Do well to check with a gage but as long as you have some you are OK. Friend drove a Ford truck for years with indicated zero pressure at idle but some at speed. No knock, drive on but be sure to change the oil regualrly and filter, use MC. Ok to move up on the viscosity.

Buying a used car needing some help is OK if you do your own work. If you have to pay a shop, they see you as $$$.

-chart-


-
 

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Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
Guys i will have some Videos of the car up soon....i've got one from a 30 minute drive that i need to Edit down.

in the mean time to awnser a few questions.

the Check Engine Light DOES NOT illuminate.....even when you cycle the Gauge Cluster through the Portion that tests the Warning Lights.

Now weather or not this is a Burnt Bulb or otherwise is to be determined....however based on the fact i can see someone tried to paint over the battery warning light (this was not visable until the first time i drove the car at night) i wouldnt be suprised if they pulled the bulb so the light wouldnt show...

i Did however have Autozone Scan the car the first day off the lot to see if any codes did exist,and surely enough they are.

printed out on a paper and handed to me.

P0405 - Exhaust Gas Recirculation Sensor A Circuit Low

P2272 - Lack Of HO2S-22 Switching,Sensor Indicates Lean

P0405 - (Same As Above)

P2272 - (Same As Above)

to awnser what i mean when i say the engine idles "Chunky"

it basically doesn't Idle smoothly and Vibrates more than it should....enough so to make the steering Wheel Vibrate.

sometimes when pulling away from a stop a Slight Hesitation is felt as well.

as to any strange noises......there are a few questionable noises coming from the Firewall but none i would describe as Chirping.

there does seem to be something loose behind the dash that Vibrates at idle speeds and Low RPM's right off idle.

as for the one that seems to be coming from behind the Firewall. there is what i would describe as a slight "clacking" noise....

the Exhaust pipes at the back of the car vibrate against the body of car when its Loaded with people at idle.....thats more of an annoyance and im not concerned at all about that.


As For getting Hosed?.....im not going to Compleatly Disagree with anyone...so im not even offended. Yes the car is paid for....No Warranty As is....so any issue with it im going to have to Suck it up and deal with it myself unfortunately.:(

i don't consider myself an easily fooled car shopper....however impatience is a big minus on my end.:angry:

so therefore i probably rushed getting a Car in a hurry to get another one to replace the Wrecked 99 SE.:unsure:

i was Willing to Tackle issues on my Last Taurus so i guess soon that'll be the case here.

I appreciate the help guys....i'll have updates soon.:D
 

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Those codes aren't too bad honestly. The Oxygen sensor stuck lean is the code you want to see if you're getting 02 sensor codes, because 99% of the time it means you just need to replace the sensor, as when they stop reading the voltage goes to max (thus lean). Looks like bank 2 sensor 2 is the problem. The recirc sensor is the DPFE sensor which goes bad often. Ensure the hoses are still connected though. If they're not, you likely have a bigger issue with catalyst failure. The sensor is directly behind the upper intake manifold.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
OK Guys no video. i have taken several clips but my Movie Editor is pissing me the hell off among other issues getting it uploaded ANYWHERE! >_<

i haven't been able to get the Oil Light to come back on in Several Days.....even when the Car has been running a long While (Hour Long drives in Warm weather) im not ignoring anything tho (this is how i give myself grey hairs)

As for Idle Behavior.....Warm Idle seems to fall somewhere in the 700-800 RPM Range (if i look at the digital tach in the messege center its not a steady number and fluctuates)

Ocassionally the Idle becomes somewhat unstable under certain conditions (Revving the engine slightly & letting the RPMS fall back down,Putting the Car in Gear,Switching on a Heavy Electrical Load)

in which case the Idle dips lower than it should (IE Below 600 & Once down to 400) obviously when this occurs you feel the engine roughen up abit and raise the Revs Back up.

Usually on a Cold Start (Sitting Overnight) the Revs go up to 2000 or slightly Over & Lower Gradually.

sometimes lately though when you start it....the Engine Idles Low (like at the same speed it would if the engine was Warm) for a Second or two then goes up to it's Normal Cold Idle (Much Higher)
 

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OK Guys no video. i have taken several clips but my Movie Editor is pissing me the hell off among other issues getting it uploaded ANYWHERE! >_<

i haven't been able to get the Oil Light to come back on in Several Days.....even when the Car has been running a long While (Hour Long drives in Warm weather) im not ignoring anything tho (this is how i give myself grey hairs)

As for Idle Behavior.....Warm Idle seems to fall somewhere in the 700-800 RPM Range (if i look at the digital tach in the messege center its not a steady number and fluctuates)

Ocassionally the Idle becomes somewhat unstable under certain conditions (Revving the engine slightly & letting the RPMS fall back down,Putting the Car in Gear,Switching on a Heavy Electrical Load)

in which case the Idle dips lower than it should (IE Below 600 & Once down to 400) obviously when this occurs you feel the engine roughen up abit and raise the Revs Back up.

Usually on a Cold Start (Sitting Overnight) the Revs go up to 2000 or slightly Over & Lower Gradually.

sometimes lately though when you start it....the Engine Idles Low (like at the same speed it would if the engine was Warm) for a Second or two then goes up to it's Normal Cold Idle (Much Higher)
Most of that idle behavior sounds correct. Interesting that the light has stayed off for a while. Wonder if you have an intermittent oil pressure switch and that's it. Would be an easy fix :D
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Not much else to report on the Taurus.

according to the messege center im Averaging 14-15 MPG around Town and 22-23 on long extended highway Travel.

also worth nothing there's ocassional bucking under hard acceleration when cold.

which it did make its first somewhat lengthy road trip from Fort Worth to Tyler,Texas.
 
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