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hi guys. I have a 2002 Taurus with the 3.0 duratec engine. When you start it, it idles and runs rough until you drive about 100 feet or so, then it smooths out. After that it runs well unless you give it more than 1/4 throttle from a dead stop. When trying to accelerate quickly from a stop or even from a roll it just stumbles and falls on its face and misfires like crazy. I have replaced the coil pack, wires and plugs within the last year. It also had a vacuum leak for a while that I just found and fixed which did not solve the problem. I got a code for cyl 1 and cyl 5 misfire but it has not thrown those codes in weeks. also it seems to idle rough when the air conditioning is on sometimes. other times the a/c has no effect. anyone got any ideas why it does this but does not throw a code? bad pcm? bad injector(s)? I'm at a loss
 

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What brand coil pack and plugs/wires did you use?

Rough idle with AC can be a vac leak issue, you may want to replace your upper and lower intake manifold gaskets. (Not too hard, there are tutorials here).
 

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Discussion Starter #3
What brand coil pack and plugs/wires did you use?

Rough idle with AC can be a vac leak issue, you may want to replace your upper and lower intake manifold gaskets. (Not too hard, there are tutorials here).
Thanks for the reply. I'm pretty sure it is not a vac leak or the intake manifold gaskets because I had it smoke tested to find original vacuum leak. and we replaced the faulty vacuum hoses. There was a little oil in the #5 spark plug hole when i inspected the plug the other day. I cleaned it all up and the oil has not come back. I wonder if the valve cover gasket could be the cause of a vacuum leak

edit: the wires I used were the more expensive ones at the auto parts store, i forget the brand, and the coil pack was probably a cheap autoparts store brand. The plugs are motorcraft stock replacements
 

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Well, the only coil packs worth anything are the BWD and Motorcraft units, so you could have a defective coil still.

As for the intake manifold gaskets, the leak can be quite small and only show up under a heavier load. Over 100k those need to be replaced without question.
 

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There have been failures reported on aftermarket coil packs other than BWD. I am confused, were the codes cleared from the last occurrence and have they reappeared? Given the history have you checked signal pulse on the coil connector? You may have an issue at the connector or a chaffed wire
 

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Discussion Starter #7
the lean codes went away when we fixed the vacuum leaks. The misfire codes have not come back since clearing them weeks ago. it is strange because it idles like crap when you first start it then after you drive for 30 seconds it clears up and only stumbles under hard acceleration. I'm going to check the wires tonight. I wish the coil wasn't under the intake, such a pain to get to
 

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When I replaced my engine (01 Vulcan) I had a really bad miss and it was showing a lean code for bank 1. I had the injectors from my old, blown engine, also an 01 Vulcan. Known good, so I rehabbed them by cleaning the injectors with undiluted, pressurized injector cleaner & a 9v battery to fire them, and new o-rings. Solved the miss and killed the code immediately. I'm thinking you might have one or more bad injector.

In the past, I have had a miss from one seeming new, but defective plug wire. New wires solved it. (On a Lumina.)

You may be able to check your ignition with an inductive timing light. We old school guys have them in our "useless" tool boxes--where infrequently or never used tools go to collect dust. Got a ring compressor and a valve spring compressor and a never used drum brake spring expander in mine. As soon as I'm done with my front suspension my pitman arm/ball joint and tie rod compressors will join them.
 

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shiela said:
How's the pcv hose/tube assy.?
Yes, just like that that other misfire (but no codes now) trouble that "carproblems" had - in that other thread:

and similarly as "carproblems" / could suggest:

? - ya the PCV valve & rubber elbow (if this car has one) - & hoses - check all
[ Vacuum leaks, non functioning PCV system, gunked up plugged hose etc. etc. must check]

? - don't run with little or very low fuel in the tank. (sucking air and crap from bottom of tank? Affecting fuel pump and fuel pressure at times - causing misfires ???)

? - change where you buy gas / try some better quality gas as an experiment.
[ poor or low quality fuel or fuel with water or other contaminants. Big argument and controversial, i know- but i know my old high milage 2000 taurus runs like crap on regular fuel w/10% ethanol. I run premium now - w/no added alcohol]

? - do the throttle body / intake clean out "spray" procedure.

? - run fuel injector cleaner in the gas (give it a try- might help)

? - run some premium gas line antifreeze (isopropyl alcohol type) to remove possible water from the fuel system

DOSE IT . Give it the DOSE - to clean it out / do whatever else to clean it out.

? - the "Autolite" sparkplug issue Chart mentioned in that thread. Ignition issues.

? - other?
 

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Yes, just like that that other misfire (but no codes now) trouble that "carproblems" had - in that other thread:

and similarly as "carproblems" / could suggest:

? - ya the PCV valve & rubber elbow (if this car has one) - & hoses - check all
[ Vacuum leaks, non functioning PCV system, gunked up plugged hose etc. etc. must check]

? - don't run with little or very low fuel in the tank. (sucking air and crap from bottom of tank? Affecting fuel pump and fuel pressure at times - causing misfires ???)

? - change where you buy gas / try some better quality gas as an experiment.
[ poor or low quality fuel or fuel with water or other contaminants. Big argument and controversial, i know- but i know my old high milage 2000 taurus runs like crap on regular fuel w/10% ethanol. I run premium now - w/no added alcohol]

? - do the throttle body / intake clean out "spray" procedure.

? - run fuel injector cleaner in the gas (give it a try- might help)

? - run some premium gas line antifreeze (isopropyl alcohol type) to remove possible water from the fuel system

DOSE IT . Give it the DOSE - to clean it out / do whatever else to clean it out.

? - the "Autolite" sparkplug issue Chart mentioned in that thread. Ignition issues.

? - other?
As a starting point, fuel starvation at high use rate. Fuel filter, fuel pump.
Monitor fuel pressure at the OBDII.

Of course if the filter in not new, first things first.
New is not always good, if brand X.
Old school stuff.

Ignition weakness shows at high throttle. Plugs, wires, coil.

-chart-
 

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Yes, just like that that other misfire (but no codes now) trouble that "carproblems" had - in that other thread:

and similarly as "carproblems" / could suggest:

? - ya the PCV valve & rubber elbow (if this car has one) - & hoses - check all
[ Vacuum leaks, non functioning PCV system, gunked up plugged hose etc. etc. must check]

? - don't run with little or very low fuel in the tank. (sucking air and crap from bottom of tank? Affecting fuel pump and fuel pressure at times - causing misfires ???)

? - change where you buy gas / try some better quality gas as an experiment.
[ poor or low quality fuel or fuel with water or other contaminants. Big argument and controversial, i know- but i know my old high milage 2000 taurus runs like crap on regular fuel w/10% ethanol. I run premium now - w/no added alcohol]

? - do the throttle body / intake clean out "spray" procedure.

? - run fuel injector cleaner in the gas (give it a try- might help)

? - run some premium gas line antifreeze (isopropyl alcohol type) to remove possible water from the fuel system

DOSE IT . Give it the DOSE - to clean it out / do whatever else to clean it out.

? - the "Autolite" sparkplug issue Chart mentioned in that thread. Ignition issues.

? - other?
Fuel injector cleaner never solves problems--tho it does help avoid problems. Works too slow to do any good. I run mostly Chevron (or Texaco) in my vehicles--Techron does keep the fuel system clean.

Cleaning the throttle body also doesn't do much, tho cleaning the contact surfaces on the IAC sometimes helps. And the one can clean the MAP/MAF sensor with acetone & a q-tip and rinse with 100% denatured/rubbing alcohol.

My 01 Vulcan runs like a dream on (Chevron) regular--premium is just a waste of cash.

For the dyi-er, there's a video on Youtube about cleaning injectors on the bench. It requires a small investment--about 20 bucks, but does the job. I can clean a set of injectors in 10 minutes or less. And changing injectors, when you've done it before, takes less than 20 minutes. I run really high mileage stuff--my Dakota has 245,000 mi. on it and a good cleaning helps keep it running strong.

Clean the exteriors of the injectors with brake cleaner and be sure to replace the o-rings.

Techron can be bought at Walmart & most auto parts stores as an additive. Soaking a sticky PCV in the stuff--straight--works well.


Valve cover gaskets do not cause vacuum leaks.

However, there's a vacuum fitting on the right side of the rear of the plenum (Vulcan engine) that is a vacuum leak waiting to happen. Really cheezy--it needs to be attached to the plenum with a hose clamp--and the soda straw lines need to be upgraded--Autozone sells kits.
 

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GOOD ! More details and better methods to do those things.

Cleaning the throttle body also doesn't do much, tho cleaning the contact surfaces on the IAC sometimes helps. And the one can clean the MAP/MAF sensor with acetone & a q-tip and rinse with 100% denatured/rubbing alcohol.
[ my mechanic says differently - although he may have done what you mention also ]


Acetone - that's in some nail polish remover product isn't it ? Would you think nail polish remover would serve as acetone ? Strong enough?

Reason I ask - Nail polish remover / acetone in small bottle - can be found at Dollar Store sometimes - nearby and very inexpensively.

Side thought.
[ Nail polish remover / acetone, I have learned - has many good household uses and is very handy - also works well to remove black magic marker - but careful on what surface - it's harsh stuff - and will also rub off some surface finishes / coatings. Test first on hidden spot if possible. Mineral Spririts or Varsol is less harsh for magic marker removal.Could try. I've used gasoline on rag too - to remove magic marker off some surfaces.]


100% denatured/rubbing alcohol
Rubbing alcohol = Isopropyl Alcohol Yes? So if 100% denatured - could also serve as premium gas line antifreeze. Bonds / mixes tightly with water and gas in the tank - and mixes all together well - and then out goes the water as the fuel burns. Good way to get water out of tank - if any. As I mentioned. We use it here in winter, in the tank, when it gets really cold - to prevent gas line freeze ups.


My 01 Vulcan runs like a dream on (Chevron) regular--premium is just a waste of cash.
OK. But .

My 00 Vulcan runs like CRAP on Petro CANADA REGULAR (Canadian Gas Co.) or any other Canadian gas co. REGULAR fuel.

Most noticable when you try to step on the gas. Car acts and sounds like a DEAD FART (very sick BEAVER) on Canadian regular gas.

Suspect: The 10% Ethanol they put in the Regular (Bronze) and in the Plus (Mid Grade/Silver) - AND - suspect they're putting in also some other CRAP that burns (sort of/but not very well/to get rid of it and to make more profit) - which makes car run like crap. Solvents and such - other stuff that "burns" (sort of) is being added to the lower grades here.

PREMIUM (if advertised with NO Ethanol / just good GASOLINE) - I have much better results with - in my vehicle.

And I figure that the bit extra I pay for PREMIUM - is worth it .

This is CANADA here. Shysters and taxers. Fraudsters. They're adding the **** to the lower grades of gas. For the regular proles / regular citizens to buy and use and burn. ( Proles = the prolitarians = the serfs = the middle and lower classes / bulk of the population - who don't have big dollars for gas)

Here in CANADA they're selling the CRAP to the average citizens.

But they gotta keep at least ONE (1) grade of gas here "GOOD" (Premium / Gold ) for those that "know" the scoop, have better vehicles / higher performace or expensive luxury vehicles, and price that gas a little higher, since it is better, and also to keep the proles from all buying it or using it.

Society has always been this way. Quality costs - and is reserved for those who have more money / or willing to spend more for it.

Here, in CANADA, for your vehicle - your very important transportation - I believe, it is worth it to pay that extra amount - for better fuel - regardless. For better operation, better performance, better winter operation as well, fewer "problems".

I know it's controversial / argumentative / a "theory".

But practically - I can observe a large difference - in the operation of my 00 / higher mileage vehicle.

There are other scenarios, observations, and opinions.

They're selling us the crap here - in CANADA - in the lower grades of fuel.
 

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They're selling us the crap here - in CANADA - in the lower grades of fuel.
Many parts of the US are also forced to use that "reformulated" gas with ethanol in it. In my town they do it in the summer months. You have to drive a county over to get regular gas.
 

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GOOD ! More details and better methods to do those things.



[ my mechanic says differently - although he may have done what you mention also ]


Acetone - that's in some nail polish remover product isn't it ? Would you think nail polish remover would serve as acetone ? Strong enough?

Reason I ask - Nail polish remover / acetone in small bottle - can be found at Dollar Store sometimes - nearby and very inexpensively.

Side thought.
[ Nail polish remover / acetone, I have learned - has many good household uses and is very handy - also works well to remove black magic marker - but careful on what surface - it's harsh stuff - and will also rub off some surface finishes / coatings. Test first on hidden spot if possible. Mineral Spririts or Varsol is less harsh for magic marker removal.Could try. I've used gasoline on rag too - to remove magic marker off some surfaces.]




Rubbing alcohol = Isopropyl Alcohol Yes? So if 100% denatured - could also serve as premium gas line antifreeze. Bonds / mixes tightly with water and gas in the tank - and mixes all together well - and then out goes the water as the fuel burns. Good way to get water out of tank - if any. As I mentioned. We use it here in winter, in the tank, when it gets really cold - to prevent gas line freeze ups.




OK. But .

My 00 Vulcan runs like CRAP on Petro CANADA REGULAR (Canadian Gas Co.) or any other Canadian gas co. REGULAR fuel.

Most noticable when you try to step on the gas. Car acts and sounds like a DEAD FART (very sick BEAVER) on Canadian regular gas.

Suspect: The 10% Ethanol they put in the Regular (Bronze) and in the Plus (Mid Grade/Silver) - AND - suspect they're putting in also some other CRAP that burns (sort of/but not very well/to get rid of it and to make more profit) - which makes car run like crap. Solvents and such - other stuff that "burns" (sort of) is being added to the lower grades here.

PREMIUM (if advertised with NO Ethanol / just good GASOLINE) - I have much better results with - in my vehicle.

And I figure that the bit extra I pay for PREMIUM - is worth it .

This is CANADA here. Shysters and taxers. Fraudsters. They're adding the **** to the lower grades of gas. For the regular proles / regular citizens to buy and use and burn. ( Proles = the prolitarians = the serfs = the middle and lower classes / bulk of the population - who don't have big dollars for gas)

Here in CANADA they're selling the CRAP to the average citizens.

But they gotta keep at least ONE (1) grade of gas here "GOOD" (Premium / Gold ) for those that "know" the scoop, have better vehicles / higher performace or expensive luxury vehicles, and price that gas a little higher, since it is better, and also to keep the proles from all buying it or using it.

Society has always been this way. Quality costs - and is reserved for those who have more money / or willing to spend more for it.

Here, in CANADA, for your vehicle - your very important transportation - I believe, it is worth it to pay that extra amount - for better fuel - regardless. For better operation, better performance, better winter operation as well, fewer "problems".

I know it's controversial / argumentative / a "theory".

But practically - I can observe a large difference - in the operation of my 00 / higher mileage vehicle.

There are other scenarios, observations, and opinions.

They're selling us the crap here - in CANADA - in the lower grades of fuel.

Ok something has to be said about this............ your posts are SO confusing to follow and just run off on tangents it's extremely hard to follow what you are saying and where you are going with your points. Almost all of your posts are like this. Please, in the future, don't post every plausible option in the known universe to an issue as this can create confusion on what the REAL solution to an issue is, especially when members are using the search feature to find a solution to their issue. Short, concise and to the point is best.
 

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bergs - I had similar symptoms in my '01 DOHC engine. Would sometimes be hard starting and is stumbled on acceleration or under load but no DTC's. It had a little over 100k and I pulled the plugs and they needed replacing so I replaced those and the wires which helped the starting issue but it still stumbled under load. One day out of frustration when it started stumbling I floored the gas to see how it would react and the stumbling got worse and finally threw a CEL. That was the first time I've ever been happy to see a CEL! The code was for a misfire on two cylinders so I replaced the coil pack and the stumbling is gone. I know you said you replaced yours but don't rule out that you got a bad one. Good luck!
 
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