Taurus Car Club of America : Ford Taurus Forum banner

1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Added another Ford to the collection. Only issue with the entire car is that it has poor, poor heat performance. After much common sense diagnosis and reading on here, I flushed the cooling system. Not necessarily by the wiki, I did from the upper and lower I was thinking it was in the radiator. Heat came back temporarily, like a day, then problem persisted.

Observations made:

When the gauge reads exactly halfway:
1. There appears to be no movement of coolant in the degas bottle.
2. The degas bottle is completely filled.
3. The mixture is exactly 50/50 green antifreeze and water, no additives.
4. The elbows going to the heater core on the firewall (the two 90 degree bends opposite each other) both are hot to the touch with the heater on or off.
5. The upper radiator hose is very hot and very firm.
6. The lower radiator hose is luke warm at best and squishy.



From these observations, can I conclude...

1. Replace the waterpump.
2. Replace the thermostat.
3. Backflush the system, this time getting the heater core as well.

Any other serviceable components I should do while I'm in there? Timing chain? Timing cover gasket?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Any reason why on the thermostat? I was concerned with the lack of circulation or really movement of any kind in the degas bottle.

Slowbra is under the knife again, then paint. I cannot get this new clutch to release properly.

This is when she was longtubes, side exits, 150 shot, 4.30s, suspension, electric water pump, meziere dampener, 03/04 coil on plug, tuned. 330whp on 103 all motor, stock cams, heads, shortblock. Water pump failed, grenaded motor. Researched, found out how much lighter the LS1 was, is becoming a popular Fox swap. I wouldn't say it was direct bolt in, but it was pretty close. AJE K member and Kooks LTs took care of 99% of the work of such a swap.




vs. my best friend's STi

his car now



We just finished built shortblock, Cosworth heads and cams, radiator and fans, Perrin front mount, fuel rail kit, injectors, GT35R, meth injection, 255 pump. Made 496awhp @ 25psi running out of fuel. Big boy pump and lines needed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,392 Posts
Maybe you have a vacuum leak that's making it so the heat blend door isn't opening, since you have pressure, you have hot heater core hoses, so somthing is up with the blend door
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
When I move the heat position switch, it definitely switches in increments to cold and very cold :dunno:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,064 Posts
Tstat is fine.
Its not a vac leak either. The blend door is controlled by an electronic servo.
I would flush the heater core and the whole system(Search for "Clinton") as outlined on the site. If that doesn't do much, then its the pump.

Won't hurt to check the blend air door actuator first. Pull the radio out. With everything connected turn the car on(don't have to start) and watch the milky white cigarette box sized control unit. You should see the arm move.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,392 Posts
The only other thing I can think of would be water pump. I know it seems like it should overheat, but they don't always do that when a water pump goes. What puzzles me is that you said both heater core hoses are hot and you have pressure in the cooling system.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
One other observation I made was that in these 20 degree mornings in PA the car takes FOREVER to come up to operating temperature, at least a solid 15 minutes of driving. At least ten minutes more than the Escape needs to have scorching hot air blowing.

Which makes me again think thermostat, coupled with the lower radiator hose issue. But I don't get why BOTH heater core elbows seem to be very hot to the touch yet I get minimal air.

Possibly two problems? Thermostat + blendor actuator? Thermostat explains the lower radiator hose and the long warm up time, actuator explains poor heat but two hot heater hoses (after flushing).

I'll try and do that test on the blendor motor actuator tomorrow. Unless I find it bad, I ordered a thermostat, heater core, and water pump for Saturday. My dad wants to hang out and play cars so we'll use his heated garage. Other toys taking up mine currently. I'll do the flush and thermostat first and see what we get from there, but I'd rather have the parts and not need them than need them and have to wait another week while I order them and get time to put them in.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,686 Posts
As for the degas bottle, you won't see much movement in it, since the only real coolant flow into it is thru the small vent lines. It's really just an expansion tank for the cooling system - somewhere for the coolant to go as it expands and contracts with temp changes. The coolant doesn't really flow thru it very much, which is why it gets so dirty and gummed up over time if you don't keep on top of cooling system flushes.

When you flushed the cooling system, did you isolate and backflush the heater core? If not, start with that. Even tho the heater hoses feel hot, the core may still be restricted. It's not that hard to do, and won't cost you anything other than a little bit of coolant to top the system back up with when you're done.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Thanks for that tidbit Nidan. None of my other Ford degas bottles did that but I read other threads where people were looking for movement in the degas bottle expecting it. My latest conclusion of multiple problems, that was the only detail not covered by thermostat + blendor motor.

Tomorrow is the day to pick up the parts and toss em in.
One more item of note is that at a traffic light or otherwise stopped for 30 seconds or so, the heat gets bitter cold. As soon as you start moving again, it gets back to the warm. I have been trying to visualize what is going on in the cooling system in my head and I cannot figure it out. Maybe the heater core is restricted, not totally clogged, causing some but poor heat. At idle when the water pump is spinning slowest it is not enough flow/pressure to force fluid through the core. But when I get it moving, it forces just enough to get minimal heat. So again, backflushing the heater core or replacement if really bad should resolve most or all of my issues (except the take long time to warm up, which is VERY likely stuck open thermostat).


Starting with inspecting the blendor motor.
Backflush heater core.

If problem still persists, I am replacing the water pump and thermostat.
And if it still does, the heater core is getting replaced.

At 129,000 miles, I can easily justify chucking parts at the problem, since just about all this stuff is long beyond its intended service life anyhow.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,064 Posts
Thanks for that tidbit Nidan. None of my other Ford degas bottles did that but I read other threads where people were looking for movement in the degas bottle expecting it. My latest conclusion of multiple problems, that was the only detail not covered by thermostat + blendor motor.

Tomorrow is the day to pick up the parts and toss em in.
One more item of note is that at a traffic light or otherwise stopped for 30 seconds or so, the heat gets bitter cold. As soon as you start moving again, it gets back to the warm. I have been trying to visualize what is going on in the cooling system in my head and I cannot figure it out. Maybe the heater core is restricted, not totally clogged, causing some but poor heat. At idle when the water pump is spinning slowest it is not enough flow/pressure to force fluid through the core. But when I get it moving, it forces just enough to get minimal heat. So again, backflushing the heater core or replacement if really bad should resolve most or all of my issues (except the take long time to warm up, which is VERY likely stuck open thermostat).


Starting with inspecting the blendor motor.
Backflush heater core.

If problem still persists, I am replacing the water pump and thermostat.
And if it still does, the heater core is getting replaced.

At 129,000 miles, I can easily justify chucking parts at the problem, since just about all this stuff is long beyond its intended service life anyhow.
[/b]
Gets cold at idle but ok at speed?
That sounds exactly like a few others on the board where the pump had all the blades rotted off.
I would put money on the pump is toast and the heater core is almost plugged. Still wouldn't rule out the blend door motor though. But its sounds like the pump is most at fault here, with the heater core not far behind.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
834 Posts
Gets cold at idle but ok at speed?
That sounds exactly like a few others on the board where the pump had all the blades rotted off.
I would put money on the pump is toast and the heater core is almost plugged. Still wouldn't rule out the blend door motor though. But its sounds like the pump is most at fault here, with the heater core not far behind.
[/b]
x2 ^^^ I'll put my money on the waterpump. It might not be too late for the core...but that pump is as good as a door stop now.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Well, flushed the heater core and then removed the thermostat and flushed the entire cooling system by just going the opposite way through the heater hoses.

The cooling system was pretty clean, the heater core was a brown tint pretty bad. Dumped all the fluid in the utility room sink, had a tablespoon of what looked like sand at the bottom. Not quite sure how that little bit did so much damage, but it did.

Replaced with new thermostat, all new coolant, fired it up and for the first time since the other flush we had to turn off the heat. Got uncomfortable it was so hot when pointed on your face. A great feeling.

Did some plugs, wipers, other little stuff too, productive day. I purchased the water pump and held onto the receipt, I'll hold onto it for a few more days in case this comes out. Worked on brother's car too, got a bunch of stuff done for him, car has been sitting 8 or so hours now so we'll get a couple more cold starts before the day is over to see how long it takes to warm up and if it stays hot during driving.

I've gotta remember to do a full stop and sit there, see if the heat is better. Seemed good sitting in the garage but we did not make a full stop on our ten minute or so test drive.

Is there any way to give rep or feedback on the site, I really appreciate all the help everyone has had here to offer.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
Test drive home says everything is wonderful. Car comes up to operating temperature a lot quicker, like my other cars, probably the thermostat issue.

Heat is still very very hot, and we did stop a couple times and it does not fall off when stopped.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
834 Posts
<div class='quotemain'>
Gets cold at idle but ok at speed?
That sounds exactly like a few others on the board where the pump had all the blades rotted off.
I would put money on the pump is toast and the heater core is almost plugged. Still wouldn't rule out the blend door motor though. But its sounds like the pump is most at fault here, with the heater core not far behind.
[/b]
x2 ^^^ I'll put my money on the waterpump. It might not be too late for the core...but that pump is as good as a door stop now.
[/b][/quote]


:homer: This is why I wouldn't last 5 min at the Casino!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
I'm not ruling out the water pump, I have it in the back seat with the heater core and some more tune up parts for next weekend. During the week I work and work in my free time on my cars, on the weekend our wives like to talk and talk and talk so we need something to do so we run out to his garage.

I actually moved my favorite car, the Cobra, over to his house so we could finish up some of the work we're doing over the winter finishing up the LS1 swap. He's got a lot more room over there, the help is definitely welcomed for that stuff, and we need a back up in case we finish tinkering on his, his wife's, my, my wife's, or my brother's daily cars. LOL.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,392 Posts
Nice Cobra, I love Mustangs! My grandma has a '06 GT convertable, although it's a little too much power for her-she already has 2 speeding tickets! She's 75 years old :noes: I've offered to trade her, but the Mustang is her baby
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
834 Posts
I'm not ruling out the water pump, I have it in the back seat with the heater core and some more tune up parts for next weekend. During the week I work and work in my free time on my cars, on the weekend our wives like to talk and talk and talk so we need something to do so we run out to his garage.

I actually moved my favorite car, the Cobra, over to his house so we could finish up some of the work we're doing over the winter finishing up the LS1 swap. He's got a lot more room over there, the help is definitely welcomed for that stuff, and we need a back up in case we finish tinkering on his, his wife's, my, my wife's, or my brother's daily cars. LOL.
[/b]
The pump is probably gonna rear its ugly head as a problem in the future. The tablespoon of "sand" as you called it was probably some of the pumps impellers broken down. Did you install a bypass hose at the core. I believe that helps the core from clogging as fast?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
453 Posts
You may have had a little air in the system too which you got out on your last repair. But the thermostat is a cheap and easy repair.
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Top