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Discussion Starter #1
Before I left the US. I checked into getting a K&N for the 04 Duratec. I come to find out through my bro, who is a service tech for the Ford Dealer (reason why I got a Taurus for 15'900). That if I chose to get a K&N filter, that it would void the warranty.

Although, if If I got a "performance" filter by motorcraft that it wouldn't void the warranty. Although, there isn't a motorcraft one for the Taurus.

hmm... guess what company makes that filter and just dies them blue.

K&N!!

all I can say. WTF!!!
 

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Originally posted by KINGxOFxSKA@Apr 15 2004, 12:48 AM
that sux..... ohh well, im enjoying my K&N filter for now. if i have to take my car in... i still have my stock air filter, i could always swap it back in 5 min.
If that should ever happen, make sure the K&N filter has not left oil residue inside the intake, MAF, or TB. The service tech can say you had an oil impregnated filter in there... which according to the warning on the filter box (at least on Gen 3's) states an oil impregnated filter will void the warranty.

I won't be taking my K&N out, but I won't let Ford service my vehicle either.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Originally posted by spridget@Apr 15 2004, 04:14 AM
I won't be taking my K&N out, but I won't let Ford service my vehicle either.
I'm not letting Ford USA service my vehicle either. I live in England right now, so I'll be taking it to the local British Ford dealer, who probably doesn't know what a [email protected] is...
 

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Personally, I don't use them, but I do know that dropping in a K & N air filter will not void your warranty.
 

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Originally posted by rockledge@Apr 15 2004, 06:41 AM
Personally, I don't use them, but I do know that dropping in a K & N air filter will not void your warranty.
Not to sound like an a$$, but it plainly says on your airbox, that if you use an oil impregnated filter (which a K&N is), it will void your warranty. It says that on all Gen 3s, at least...

JR
 

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Originally posted by godspunk32+Apr 15 2004, 07:07 AM-->QUOTE (godspunk32 @ Apr 15 2004, 07:07 AM)
<!--QuoteBegin-rockledge
@Apr 15 2004, 06:41 AM
Personally, I don't use them, but I do know that dropping in a K & N air filter will not void your warranty.
Not to sound like an a$$, but it plainly says on your airbox, that if you use an oil impregnated filter (which a K&N is), it will void your warranty. It says that on all Gen 3s, at least...

JR [/b]
On the K&N box it says it's illegal or unconstitutional for a car manufacturer to void a warrenty because of an air filter.
 

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Originally posted by mikehawk+Apr 15 2004, 07:19 AM-->QUOTE (mikehawk @ Apr 15 2004, 07:19 AM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2004, 07:07 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-rockledge
@Apr 15 2004, 06:41 AM
Personally, I don't use them, but I do know that dropping in a K & N air filter will not void your warranty.

Not to sound like an a$$, but it plainly says on your airbox, that if you use an oil impregnated filter (which a K&N is), it will void your warranty. It says that on all Gen 3s, at least...

JR
On the K&N box it says it's illegal or unconstitutional for a car manufacturer to void a warrenty because of an air filter. [/b]
I can't speak for that, but based on what I know about law in the few classes that I've taken in college, K&N's warranty (on the box, which states that an air filter can not void a warranty) would have no bearing on the warranty granted by Ford. The only thing that would have any bearing on Ford's warranty would be local or state statutes regarding implied and expressed warranties that are applicable in addition to the Ford warranty or that limit the Ford warranty, but I might be mistaken...

JR
 
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From the K & N website:

http://www.knfilters.com/warrantyletter.htm

QUOTE
Dear K&N Consumer:

K&N Engineering, Inc., is informed that some automobile dealers and manufacturers are telling their customers that the factory warranty on their motor vehicles is “void,â€Â� if an original equipment (OE) replacement air filter, manufactured by K&N, has been installed on their vehicles.  K&N finds such instances disturbing, and while it does not purport to give legal advice, K&N would like to refer you to the federal Consumer Product Warranties law, often referred to as the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, which states, in part, in Title 15, United States Code, Section 2302, subdivision ©, as follows:

“No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumer's using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade, or corporate name; except that the prohibition of this subsection may be waived by the [Federal Trade] Commission if –

(1) the warrantor satisfies the Commission that the warranted product will function properly only if the article or service so identified is used in connection with the warranted product, and

(2) the Commission finds that such a waiver is in the public interest. The Commission shall identify in the Federal Register, and permit public comment on, all applications for waiver of the prohibition of this subsection, and shall publish in the Federal Register its disposition of any such application, including the reasons therefor.�

Under this federal statute, a manufacturer, who issues a warranty on your motor vehicle, is prohibited from requiring you to use a particular brand of air filter, oil filter, or other service or maintenance item, unless such item is provided, free of charge, under your warranty or unless the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) waives this prohibition against the manufacturer.  K&N is unaware of any exemption or waiver granted by the FTC to any motor vehicle manufacturer, which pertains to air filters or oil filters.

K&N interprets this law to also prohibit the motor vehicle manufacturer from restricting your use of a particular brand of air filter, oil filter, etc. K&N’s interpretation of this law is consistent with the interpretation given it by the FTC, the government agency responsible for the interpretation and enforcement of this federal law.

The rules and regulations adopted by the FTC, to govern the interpretation and enforcement of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, are set forth in the Code of Federal Regulations, Title 16 - Commercial Practices, Chapter I - Federal Trade Commission, Subchapter G - Rules, Regulations, Statements and Interpretations Under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, Part 700 - Interpretations Under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act.  Contained within these rules and regulations is Section 700.10, which states, in relevant part (with specific language highlighted by K&N), as follows:

“© No warrantor may condition the continued validity of a warranty on the use of only authorized repair service and/or authorized replacement parts for non-warranty service and maintenance. For example, provisions such as, "This warranty is void if service is performed by anyone other than an authorized 'ABC' dealer and all replacement parts must be genuine 'ABC' parts," and the like, are prohibited where the service or parts are not covered by the warranty.  These provisions violate the Act in two ways. First, they violate the section 102© ban against tying arrangements. Second, such provisions are deceptive under section 110 of the Act, because a warrantor cannot, as a matter of law, avoid liability under a written warranty where a defect is unrelated to the use by a consumer of "unauthorized" articles or service. This does not preclude a warrantor from expressly excluding liability for defects or damage caused by such "unauthorized" articles or service; nor does it preclude the warrantor from denying liability where the warrantor can demonstrate that the defect or damage was so caused.â€Â� 

We think this FTC rule is pretty clear and unambiguous. Please note that the FTC requires the “warrantor� (this would, generally, be your motor vehicle manufacturer) to “demonstrate� that the defect in or damage to your vehicle was caused by your installation or use of a K&N air or oil filter, or other “unauthorized� part, before a warranty claim can be denied. We contend that this requires credible proof as to the cause of a failure and not merely your dealer’s guess, speculation or unfounded opinion as to the cause.

Therefore, K&N considers any threat to void your factory warranty, or the actual voiding of your factory warranty, solely for the installation of a K&N replacement air filter or oil filter, to be a violation of federal law.

The foregoing addresses only your rights and protection under federal law.  Of course, you may have greater rights under the consumer warranty laws applicable in your state.

If you have encountered a motor vehicle dealer or manufacturer, who refuses to perform warranty repairs on your vehicle, solely because you have installed a K&N replacement air filter or oil filter, then we ask that you request that the dealer set forth the warranty denial, in writing, together with a written statement that the warranty on your vehicle has been voided because of the installation of the K&N air filter or oil filter, and that you send a copy of this written statement to K&N.  We also ask that you direct your dealer and manufacturer to the federal law quoted above.  While K&N cannot act as your legal advocate or assume responsibility for enforcing your warranty rights under state and federal law, we will write to the dealership and to your motor vehicle manufacturer and insist that they provide a legal basis for their position.

In addition to any action K&N may take, you should consult an attorney and various state and federal agencies, who may be able to assist you in protecting and enforcing your warranty rights, if you encounter a motor vehicle dealer’s or manufacturer’s refusal to honor your motor vehicle warranty.

 

Sincerely,

STEVE ROGERS,
President & CEO
K&N Engineering, Inc.[/b]
 

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Yeah... Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. I was trying to remember the name.
 

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Originally posted by godspunk32@Apr 15 2004, 08:48 AM
Not to sound like an a$$, but it plainly says on your airbox, that if you use an oil impregnated filter (which a K&N is), it will void your warranty. It says that on all Gen 3s, at least...

.......................

I apparantly stand corrected...Good news for all of us...

JR
You don't sound like an a$$, not at all, you're just someone who had the same impression that a lot of other people have regarding the use of a K & N air filters. As I said, I don't use them myself, so I certainly don't feel any need to defend them.

And let's face it, obviously it is Ford's policy to discourage the use of an oiled filter such as the K & N type. The fact that there is even a warning at all imprinted on the airbox I think says a lot about that. So it certainly was reasonable for you to point that out.

But just to clarify, the Gen III airbox warning is that use of an oiled filter may (not "will") void the warranty, followed by the old familiar "Refer To Your Owners Manual" cop-out.
 

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Originally posted by Noir04+Apr 15 2004, 05:44 AM-->QUOTE (Noir04 @ Apr 15 2004, 05:44 AM)
<!--QuoteBegin-spridget
@Apr 15 2004, 04:14 AM

I won't be taking my K&N out, but I won't let Ford service my vehicle either.
I'm not letting Ford USA service my vehicle either. I live in England right now, so I'll be taking it to the local British Ford dealer, who probably doesn't know what a [email protected] is... [/b]
They probably don't know what a Taurus is, either...


When I had my SHO in the UK, local Ford dealers did not want to touch it. The main reason was the lack of parts and the length of time it would take to get parts.



Mark
95 SHO
 

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Originally posted by mikehawk+Apr 15 2004, 07:19 AM-->QUOTE (mikehawk @ Apr 15 2004, 07:19 AM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2004, 07:07 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-rockledge
@Apr 15 2004, 06:41 AM
Personally, I don't use them, but I do know that dropping in a K & N air filter will not void your warranty.

Not to sound like an a$$, but it plainly says on your airbox, that if you use an oil impregnated filter (which a K&N is), it will void your warranty. It says that on all Gen 3s, at least...

JR
On the K&N box it says it's illegal or unconstitutional for a car manufacturer to void a warrenty because of an air filter. [/b]
unconstitutional? I doubt our founding fathers sat there and wrote about it being unconstitutional for it voiding a warranty if someone to put a k & n air filter on this car...
 

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Guess the only way to REALLY find out is to have someone try and get a MAF sensor or other related part replaced by Ford if a K&N filter was used. Also, I suspect the vehicle will be taken to a Ford garage for repair, not to the K&N factory. Hope no one has to find out the hard way.............
 

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Discussion Starter #16
The other thing that is funny about this whole situtation of is the fact that Motorcraft is now putting out performance filters made by K&N!!

I was'nt aware of the K&N filter disclaimer. That's really good to know. At least the Ford Warranty isn't like a BMW. In that, you can't take the garage anywhere that isn't specifically licensed by BMW. If you do it voids the warranty.

I'm putting a K&N filter on order!!

Quote Markus

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They probably don't know what a Taurus is, either...


When I had my SHO in the UK, local Ford dealers did not want to touch it. The main reason was the lack of parts and the length of time it would take to get parts
--------------------------------------------------------------------


But they will do Warranty work right?

As far as length of time to get parts, most mechanics around here now that we can get parts shipped cheaper and faster to us (military) so the have us do it.
 

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Originally posted by afi292+Apr 15 2004, 12:35 PM-->QUOTE (afi292 @ Apr 15 2004, 12:35 PM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2004, 07:19 AM
Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2004, 07:07 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-rockledge
@Apr 15 2004, 06:41 AM
Personally, I don't use them, but I do know that dropping in a K & N air filter will not void your warranty.

Not to sound like an a$$, but it plainly says on your airbox, that if you use an oil impregnated filter (which a K&N is), it will void your warranty. It says that on all Gen 3s, at least...

JR

On the K&N box it says it's illegal or unconstitutional for a car manufacturer to void a warrenty because of an air filter.
unconstitutional? I doubt our founding fathers sat there and wrote about it being unconstitutional for it voiding a warranty if someone to put a k & n air filter on this car...
[/b]
I couldn't remember if it was because of a law passed or a supreme court ruling, so I threw in some wording to accomodate each situation.
 

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It is too late for me to read all that law paper. But if you look on the SEMA website they have something in plain english about it. Basically if Ford wants to supply you with a new filter for free when ever you want then they can tell you which filter to use. If you can't a reusable enviromentally friendly oil impregnated filter they can't stop you. Also if you read the K&N stuff it says somewhere that a factory oiled K&N won't contaminate the maf.

Another thing. All Ford MAFs have a backer/silencer plate over the sampling tube anyways so no oil is going to get straight at the wires. Just another way for Ford to screw over the customers.
 

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Originally posted by Noir04@Apr 16 2004, 09:32 AM
The other thing that is funny about this whole situtation of is the fact that Motorcraft is now putting out performance filters made by K&N!!

I was'nt aware of the K&N filter disclaimer. That's really good to know. At least the Ford Warranty isn't like a BMW. In that, you can't take the garage anywhere that isn't specifically licensed by BMW. If you do it voids the warranty.

I'm putting a K&N filter on order!!

Quote Markus

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They probably don't know what a Taurus is, either...


When I had my SHO in the UK, local Ford dealers did not want to touch it. The main reason was the lack of parts and the length of time it would take to get parts
--------------------------------------------------------------------


But they will do Warranty work right?

As far as length of time to get parts, most mechanics around here now that we can get parts shipped cheaper and faster to us (military) so the have us do it.
I doubt they'll do warranty work unless you have a specific arrangement between Ford UK and Ford US. If you check the manuals that came with the car, they say that when outside of North America you pay for warranty work yourself and then ask for reimbursement when you return. My SHO was out of warranty and they still refused to work on it.
 
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