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Discussion Starter #1
A handful of Ford and Lincoln branded products that I've been considering use this powertrain and, given how complex the repair process is for a water pump, I'm curious as to just how common it is.

In your opinion, what is the statistical probability that a Duratec of this generation (especially the 2007-2011, Ecoboost or otherwise) winds up with the water pump leaking coolant into the oil in the middle stages of its lifecycle (100k-275k)?
 

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Good question! My local Ford rep says it is very uncommon for the 35 to leak (i did not ask about the 37). I am sure someone out there has had to have one repaired.
 

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I have a friend who is a senior master tech at a large Ford dealer in upstate New York. He has told me they see on average 1 a week, usually on 100K++ mile engines. He has done quite a number of them, and can do a pump replacement in 4 or so hours. He also told me that the pump failing and dumping coolant into the crankcase happens, but is very rare.
 

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Good question! My local Ford rep says it is very uncommon for the 35 to leak (i did not ask about the 37). I am sure someone out there has had to have one repaired.
I think I might have talked to his brother in the early 00's about the 3.4 V8 Camshafts....

Very rare, isolated incidents....

Yeah, THAT'S the ticket!

 

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I have a friend who is a senior master tech at a large Ford dealer in upstate New York. He has told me they see on average 1 a week, usually on 100K++ mile engines. He has done quite a number of them, and can do a pump replacement in 4 or so hours. He also told me that the pump failing and dumping coolant into the crankcase happens, but is very rare.
4 hours sounds about right. It is (or was) on the books as a 12 hour job, which is crazy. Sure didn't take them 12 hours to do mine.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks for the input. So, we're in consensus that your average 2007-2012 transverse Duratec 3.5/3.7 has a 5-10% probability of requiring a water pump replacement before it reaches the 275k mile mark?

I have a friend who is a senior master tech at a large Ford dealer in upstate New York. He has told me they see on average 1 a week, usually on 100K++ mile engines. He has done quite a number of them, and can do a pump replacement in 4 or so hours. He also told me that the pump failing and dumping coolant into the crankcase happens, but is very rare.

This gives us at least some statistical baseline to start with. Given that, would you still consider buying a used vehicle equipped with that engine, or is the risk too high?
 

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Personally I wont buy a FWD/AWD Cyclone with the water pump buried in the engine.
 

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Personally I wont buy a FWD/AWD Cyclone with the water pump buried in the engine.
Don't blame you al all! If I would have known about this coolant pump, insane placement by Ford, on FWD Cyclone V6 equipped vehicles before I bought a new Taurus , I would have opted for the Impala , more than likely with the 3.6 HF V6. I guess I'd take my chances with the valve coking problems due to the DI those engines have. Or also the supposed weak timing chains purported by some say , the GM High Feature 3.6 V6 has, from which many say, is one of the hardest timing chains to replace also, when needed?
 

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Don't blame you al all! If I would have known about this coolant pump, insane placement by Ford, on FWD Cyclone V6 equipped vehicles before I bought a new Taurus , I would have opted for the Impala , more than likely with the 3.6 HF V6. I guess I'd take my chances with the valve coking problems due to the DI those engines have. Or also the supposed weak timing chains purported by some say , the GM High Feature 3.6 V6 has, from which many say, is one of the hardest timing chains to replace also, when needed?
The LLT (and resultant LFX) is supposed to be a significant improvement from the LY7, but is still said to be questionable due to the issues that you mentioned. It's one of the things that makes me slightly less passionate about the Cadillac CTS Wagon than I otherwise would be (aside from price, scarcity, and fears of AWD problems being added to the list of potential troubles with the powertrain). The funny thing is, at the end of the day, the MKS, Taurus, and MKX offer such a superior value to their competitors on my short list that, even with the potential $1200+ waterpump problem looming, they're still superior (or at least even with) the others. It definitely levels the playing field at least.
 

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would have known about this coolant pump, insane placeme
The LLT (and resultant LFX) is supposed to be a significant improvement from the LY7, but is still said to be questionable due to the issues that you mentioned. It's one of the things that makes me slightly less passionate about the Cadillac CTS Wagon than I otherwise would be (aside from price, scarcity, and fears of AWD problems being added to the list of potential troubles with the powertrain). The funny thing is, at the end of the day, the MKS, Taurus, and MKX offer such a superior value to their competitors on my short list that, even with the potential $1200+ waterpump problem looming, they're still superior (or at least even with) the others. It definitely levels the playing field at least.
6 equipped vehicles befo

The GM SUVs & Sedans, even the spartan base V6 Impala are pretty competitive with any Ford product you can name at comparable prices, IMHO. There are things that GM designers seem to always have the edge on Ford's too. Like that GD glare on the info & function read out screen , that I cant read in bright sunlight on my Taurus! At least GM had the sense to put a "visor" over their screen, even on their cheaper vehicles too! & talk about the bothersome Ford Sinc system on my 2015, it's not user friendly at all. GM had the common sense too, to NOT put the coolant pump, inside the engine too, a BIG plus for them! Ford always seems to skimp too much. Anyway , considering the service I got at the Ford dealer & the WP issue , discount plan or not, this will be my last Ford I'll ever buy, unless they come out with something really innovative in design or function , which Ford usually never does. From the 1970s on , they seemed to be terrified to put out vehicles styled a cycle or so ahead of their competition.
 

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The 83 Thunderbird and 86 Taurus styling was light years ahead of every other manufacturer on the planet who were still building ugly cars that looked like boxes. Engine wise, consider the 80s Mustang SVO and Thunderbird Turbo Coupe with the 2.3 SOHC intercooled turbo engine that, with a few inexpensive mods, could easily put most V8s to shame and get 26+ mpg any day of the week.

Ford has lost its edge since then, turning out bland vehicles, many with questionable ergonomics and reliability. Quite sad.
 

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Every sedan still on the market is styled aggressively because of Ford's hard strike with the 2013 Fusion redesign.

GM and FCA still haven't produced a Raptor competitor, and Ford sells those hand over fist with impressive margins.

They delivered an uppercut to GM two years ago with the new Expedition and Navigator, so much so that GM was forced to cancel their planned refresh in favor of a full rework on their SUV triplets, and might finally be modernizing them (IRS, among other things).

The new Bronco (not the Baby Bronco also in development, likely to be called the Maverick) is being developed to strike right at the Wrangler, as Ford wants to be the leader in off-road vehicles. Manual transmission, solid front axle, two and four door options, manual lockers, etc.

The new Super Duty pushes out 1050 pound feet of torque from the in-house 6.7L Scorpion diesel and can tow 37,000 pounds. And it's joined by Ford's first new clean sheet pushrod V8 in decades, which already is class leading in power output.


Lot of stuff for a company without an edge.
 

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I would not expect to make it 275,000 miles on a water pump in the duratec 35 or 37, this is extreme wishful thinking. I have a 2011 SEL @ 190k that I just had to replace the water pump for mixing coolant into oil and possibly vice-versa a few days ago, including the thermostat to water pump pipe due to it leaking out on the top of the motor. On 11/29/2010 they began a "late-build" for the 35 motor, my taurus was built in 12/10, the early build is the one I believe that you hear about not making it past 100k without a major mechanical water pump failure. The timing chain goes from a single tiny link (like the normal secondary chains) to a very thick multi-linked "silent chain" or heavy duty chain, this requires the late-build water pump to have a dual sprocket instead of the early-build single sprocket. The crank sprocket on the late-build is also a few millimeters wider on the teeth.

I believe that the late-build was a quick fix to help and make sure the pump and timing assembly last a decent amount of time, and in my case, that seems to have worked, there is no doubt in my mind that if I had the early build prior to 11/29/2010, my motor would be totaled from the typical water pump failure.
 
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