Taurus Car Club of America : Ford Taurus Forum banner

1 - 20 of 28 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
OK my cousin came to me with few bucks to get some tires for his taurus, luckily I had a set he could have. but when I picked up the car I noticed it was missing and of course the check engine light was on and flashing. so I had it towed to my house(I know flashing light is when converter damage is happening). upon inspecting it with my cheap scan tool he had mutliple misfires so I started pulling plug wires at the coil one by one to see if I had one that made no change, and I did, cylinder 1 and 5, no change when the wire was pulled. I then pulled the plugs notice one the ceramic broke dropped covering the spark area(nothing broke off though luckily) so I put a new set of autolite double platinums(I believe at .040) and a set of wires. tried to crank it up and it would not start.... triple checked the firing order on the coil and positions of each cylinder and everything was right, sprayed some either and cranked it again, heard a pop and had a small engine fire melted the snorkel... So I then realized there was some more issues at hand.. did a compression test and sure enough 1 and 5 were low, pulled the reed valve out of the comp tester and put air in the cylinders and found 2 leaking intake valves... got all that fix now im stuck with a now start still.. i am getting fuel and getting spark but its not starting and the few times it does start its running rough. to me it seems like the ignition timing is too far advanced... Why... because when you are cranking it it seems to hit a hard spot almost like it doesn't make it to top dead center ready to fire then before it pops then forces the engine backward or slowing the starter drastically and not letting it start right. right out the bat I plugged up my scan tool and according to it the computer is advancing timing 10 degrees during starting. I'm not 100% sure what its supposed to be at during cranking but I would assume 0 if not retarded to help rotate the engine, but its at 10. the reason other reason I suspect it has something to do with the timing is, if I Unplug the crank sensor(disables fuel and spark) the engine turns over flawlessly fast and no hickups, but as soon as spark is reintroduced it slows down the cranking and it hits those hard spots, it hits hard too like you can hear the flywheel ring very sketchy... I pulled the cam sensor out to see if it was damaged and it looks fine so I marked the position and tried turning it a little both ways and it seemed to help for a second then start hitting the hard spot again.. but again unplug the coil pack or crank sensor and it spins like butter.

is there any way to test some of these sensors?(I have a voltmeter, but no oscilloscope) I tried adjusting the tps and broke it(not adjustable, lol) according to the scan tool it was at 17.9 throttle, so I though it needed to be adjusted. anyway its at the right voltage according to other forum suggestions. so that's a+ now. but still no start, tried a junkyard MASS AIR (since the snorkel caught fire, assumed maybe it damaged the MAF) but still no start...

Still hitting the hard spot with the ignition hooked up, I'm scared to use starting fluid as that's what popped and caused my little fire, lol any Ideas would be greatly appreciated
 

·
Has It Been That Long?
Joined
·
11,999 Posts
It would be easier if you took your time next time when posting, please. I made it through your wall of text, most people wouldn't bother going past the first line.

What were ALL the codes it listed when you checked it?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
409 Posts
you need one of these ...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
the machine shop found the head with the bad valves also had a hairline crack between exhaust and the spark plug on #5 after cutting the seats so that head was replaced with a used head of the same casting and then both heads received a valve job(valves and seats ground then lapped) and a resurfacing. and everything was put together with a felpro head gasket kit. all the parts were meticulously cleaned prior to their installation, including the injectors all held pressure none leaked, and all had decent spray patterns(I cleaned them individually with fuel injection cleaner pumped through a hose and pulsed by hand, it cleared some of the sideways spray patterns so all have good patterns now)

the engine fire was contained by the intake snorkel, as soon as I saw it my extinguisher was used, so if it damaged anything it would be the MAF but a used replacement didn't change anything, and I got a used replacement snorkel and air temp sensor(the original got melted a little)

and when I checked the codes originally it was just a multiple misfire, after the tune up I cleared them, since then nothing else has came up(it hasn't ran since)

and where can I get one of those muffler bearings? y brother is a manager of an advanced auto parts, that would make an awesome gag gift for him
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
what controls timing on these cars? I read somewhere that the cam sensor only controls the timing of the injectors, and the crank sensor determines engine position so the computer can control timing., and i read that the crank sensor either works or doesn't work, that there is no in between that if it gets fire and fuel the crank sensor works, I'm getting both but ignition timing just seems too far advanced. but cant figure out why, I'm going to call my cousin he bought this thing for 500 a year or 2 ago and as far I know he drove it on the 4 cylinders since he had it, lol
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,538 Posts
Read my no-start guide if you haven't yet: http://www.taurusclub.com/forum/82-maintenance-repair/174401-why-won-t-my-car-start-comprehensive-no-start-troubleshooting-guide.html

The PCM controls the timing period. The sensors just tell the computer where the engine is, and the computer decides when to fire the spark or the injectors on it's own.

You have spark? Next would be to measure fuel pressure with a gauge (no shortcuts). Also would be thinking about the battery being weak, so try jump starting it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
I actually looked through that when I signed up on this forum, and I'm going to rent a fuel pressure tester tomorrow, but to me it just seems like the timing is way out, like too advanced.

also how much play is allowable on the cam syncro (there's a small bit of play on this one)
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,538 Posts
10º of timing advance is not enough to prevent it from starting. It would still be sputtering at least.

There should be zero lateral play on a camshaft syncro.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Oh and the battery is actually hooked up to a 200amp roll around charger, and even when it sounds like its cranking fine its on the 200amp start feature. So power isn't an issue. So if the ecu controls timing period and nothing else has any control of it, I need to get the engine to tdc realldy to fire, and see where this cam sensor is at and get it synced up, I believe its like 35degrees from straight(saw a picture somewhere earlier) just going to have to find that tool. And hopefully someone had the thing off a tooth or something
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Ok so I'm going to order the Dorman synchro kit with the sensor and setup tool and hopefully that will get it going, if not I guess a new computer...
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,538 Posts
Ok so I'm going to order the Dorman synchro kit with the sensor and setup tool and hopefully that will get it going, if not I guess a new computer...
We only recommend you get the Motorcraft cam syncro, the Dorman part is of inferior quality and may fail in less than a year. Get the alignment tool and hopefully you can find TDCC #1 without 50 posts like the last guy...

Personally I would just do a quick voltage check while cranking to ensure things are okay. If the battery is completely dead 200 amps may not be enough. Jump start from a running vehicle is still better.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,801 Posts
We only recommend you get the Motorcraft cam syncro, the Dorman part is of inferior quality and may fail in less than a year. Get the alignment tool and hopefully you can find TDCC #1 without 50 posts like the last guy...

Personally I would just do a quick voltage check while cranking to ensure things are okay. If the battery is completely dead 200 amps may not be enough. Jump start from a running vehicle is still better.
Great line!!!!!!!!!!

Was the motor any more apart then to replace a head just curious?

I thought you said in one post the motor starts sometimes. How long does it run for?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
since it was running like the timing is off I assumed maybe it jumped time so, the car also got a timing chain, it had a little slack in it, hard to tell if it jumped a tooth or or not but it was really hard to check, but there was over an inch of deflection. and the new chain was kinda hard to get right too but what I did was layed it out on a table and the 2 dots together and made sure they were straight across and even with each other with a straight edge then made my own alignment marks to make sure nothing got shifted during installation, I even wire tied the top gear(removed once installed) to make sure everything stood in place. so I'm 100% sure the t-chain is on right, other than that just the head up.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
oh and its only started like 3 times since and usually its really rough and its only 3 or 4 seconds. but today after doing the timing chain it cranked up and ran for like 10-15 seconds, as soon as I touched the throttle(lightly at the throttle body, it cut out) so still no codes :/ so i then played with the syncro(assuming it controlled timing like a distributor) and it got rid of the hard spot during cranking and sounded like it was gonna start but never did and eventually got the hard spot back, but again disconnect ignition and it spins like butter.. no hard spot.. to me it really seems like timing is too advanced and its firing before it gets to top dead center so it get pushed backwards or slowed down to almost a stop. the braided ground wire got hot a few times so i also added a few engine to batter/frame grounds and no more hot grounds but still no start..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
yeah, I'm going to rent the comp tester and fuel pressure tester and I'll post the results, maybe snap a few pictures, I love looking at pictures, lol maybe it will help get more views, lol
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
Ok so fuel pressure during cranking is on the lower side of the scale but still within spec at 36-37 psi and is still holding pressure.. compression test is next
 
1 - 20 of 28 Posts
Top