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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'd like to get a ballpark on what a custom intake manifold for a Gen 4 duratec block would run. I'd like to get and idea of what it might cost if someone wanted to go the route of a roots style blower. I think Bob's right... It realy is an easier way then using a centrifigul charger. Much less plumbing and driving belt issues to worry about. Instead you just need a custom manifold, an adaptor to put your TB on some roots style blower, and a modified hood With the right sized cowel or "power bulge", you could certainly set something up. Then you dune for Forced Inducion and you're up and running... at least in theory. This eliminates the need for any kind of jackshaft, it opens up more possible doner SC candidates, and somewhat simplifies the install. On the negitive side, you need ot modify the hood and more importantly, fabricate an intake manifold. in theory, everything from the TB and out could be left stock or close to it if you wanted (though a cone filter would probably be prefered). The design ends up being very supercoupe-ish, or will look like DMX's setup. The roots style blower has an intake on the intake side of our cars and the drive shaft on the same side as our serpintine belt.

So, how do you find a shop that could quote a custom intake fabrication? I assume finding someone who can modify the hood isn't too hard.

-Dan
 

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Look in you local yellowpages for a Hot Rod shop. They might laugh at you (being that Tauri are "family grocery getters"), but who cares. They might also be very intrigued, and could be down for helping you develop it. A machine shop isn't a very good place to start, because they wouldn't have thge necessary know-how to fabricate the type of manifold you're looking for.

My advice: Hot Rod shop..

Where do you live???

JR
 

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Are the intake ports on the the Gen 4 heads different from the Gen 3?

I like the idea of the Eaton style SC, even if it takes a modified hood, but agree the limitation is that you need to have an intake fabricated, rather than just use tubing and silicone couplers. Once there's a design we think would work, it would most likely be cheaper per part if we get more than one unit made.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I live in Maryland. I think there is a shop not far from me that builds racecars. I think they have a port and polish shop as well. Maybe they can do the work or else could suggest who could. I just wonder if the job is in the hundreds or in the thousands. It would be nice for someone like me if I could develop the kit as a "Staged" kit... It owuld be neat if you could buy the manifold with a "Supercharger insert" so to speak that would co where the SC normally would go. You could get your hood modified and get the manifold installed before you had to drop the cash on a supercharger. This would help you to test locate everything first and maintain a running vehicle while you save up for the supercharger.

-Dan
 

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I would say that the job would probably be in the hundreds, rather than the thousands. It's a big job, but it's not that big. They might even be able to modify a stock Gen III intake (which I think has the same ports as the Gen IV) to accept the charger, or at least use it as a place to start...

JR
 

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I haven't read any threads on this, so I'm going to ask it...even if you could put on a turbo/super, how much boost could your engine take before blowing up? like, does anyone have the specs to the 'tec on what this thing can take? also, what other parts have to be taken into consideration as parts that could be taken beyond capacity with the turbo/super?

also, a modified hood doesn't seem like too big of a task. you cut the shape out, then get some sort of metal or something to form the cowel, and then get someone to match the paint with the rest of the car (or even a paintable cf hood w/cowel? ;D)
 

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I think (and I don't have any figures to back this up) that a 'tec could take about 6-7 psi before you'd start seeing problems. I'm sure that after awhile, even 6-7 psi will take its toll on the engine, and you'll start to see problems with burning up piston rings or worse. 12 psi would be right out...you'd have to do some major engine reworkings to use that kind of pressure...

JR

PS- 400th post!!!
 

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So long as you run moderate boost (under 8lbs.) there shouldn't be any tolerance issues. Get to high above that and you may start running into problems. There are plenty of cars running Dura blocks and internals with more power than the Taurus.
 

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I don't know if it's the block that would cause the problems. I would think that the heads and the rings would start to go before you had any problems with the block...

JR
 

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any things that can be taken to help prevent that, such as better piston rings? you're talkin to a newb here, so maybe piston rings aren't even replacable :D

also, say you had the 200hp/200tq tec w/no other real mods (other than a chip/modified air intake to compliment the turbo/super), and you slapped on that sc. if you were able to achieve around 8lbs of boost, how much hp could that possibly translate to? is there some equation to calculate this?

edit: i mean, *are there any things...*
 

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I'm not too familiar with the Duratec so I dont have much to add here :(

All I can suggest is that you can also copy the GM M90 setup and flip the blower upside down, blowing straight into the lower intake, one of the supercoupe guys (mannysc? i think) did that with his had good results. Only problem if you want to run higher boost you've got to find a say to stuff a small air/water IC in there.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
IIRC, the stock TC's on the WRX is only like a 10 PSI max boost as is, and that's on a engine built to handle forced induction. I think 6-7 PSI should yeild 50 - 75 HP on our engines, right? It doesn't sound like a lot, but I think those are good conservitive numbers, not power adding sticker type numbers.

I'm not sure how acurate this realy is, but it does give us some wishful thinking...

http://www.superchargersonline.com/hp_calculator.asp

According to this, a 200 Crank HP vehicle with 6 lbs of boost would be putting out about 280HP.

At 9 PSI we'd be at 305HP... over 50% more power then the stock configuration.

For me, I think I'd just run at 5-6 PSI. More then that and not only do you have to worry about your engine, but you have to worry about your drive train and such as well.

All I need to do is end up spending 3K on a supercharger setup and then end up paying another 3K for a tranny rebuild. Oi!

-Dan
 

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Originally posted by dant98@Jun 24 2004, 02:56 PM
IIRC, the stock TC's on the WRX is only like a 10 PSI max boost as is, and that's on a engine built to handle forced induction. I think 6-7 PSI should yeild 50 - 75 HP on our engines, right? It doesn't sound like a lot, but I think those are good conservitive numbers, not power adding sticker type numbers.

I'm not sure how acurate this realy is, but it does give us some wishful thinking...

http://www.superchargersonline.com/hp_calculator.asp

According to this, a 200 Crank HP vehicle with 6 lbs of boost would be putting out about 280HP.

At 9 PSI we'd be at 305HP... over 50% more power then the stock configuration.

For me, I think I'd just run at 5-6 PSI. More then that and not only do you have to worry about your engine, but you have to worry about your drive train and such as well.

All I need to do is end up spending 3K on a supercharger setup and then end up paying another 3K for a tranny rebuild. Oi!

-Dan
even 6lbs putting out 280hp is pretty damn nice...

right now i'm debating whether to try to hold out for a '92-'95 sho or get this damaged '04. the sho would be easier to mod (obviously, lol), but the '04 seems to be a better long term investment, because it's really cheap right now (only things damaged are the radiator and some front body work), and only has 10k miles, so it should last me a long time. i'm just afraid i'm going to buy a sho w/about 100k miles on it, spend some good money to mod it, then have it wear out at 170-200k anyways. i figure that if i get this '04, i'd have that as well as my current daily driver paid for by the time i get out of college (in '07 hopefully! ;D) and have a '04 w/only 10k miles (i don't plan to drive it too much while i'm in college...only keep it as my project car) already paid for. i know this is a super/turbo thread, but anyone wanna help me make a decision on this? :)

also, i like the challenge of having a 'tec where i'm going to have to do most of the work myself because of the lack of true gen4 aftermarket performance parts
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Get the Duratec. The SHO has been around for ages. All that can be done with it, pretty much has been. It's nice to work on newer technology i think and what you learn working on the Gen 4 will help all the gen 4 people who have only just begun to mess with thier cars (most are just comming off of warrenty now, so many haven't wanted to touch much with it).

My $0.02

-Dan
 

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weather you ahve the sc blow up or down to the intake is not that big of a deal but i don't think you have to worry about modifing your hood bc the mp90 is not that tall. heck it might be lower then the 2 runner intake.
 

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Dan, try Swift Racing Technologies. I read an article last night about a super and turbo charger that they just fininshed for the 350Z.

Swift Racing Technologies
5730 Sunnyside Ave.
Suites D&E
Beltsville, MD 20705

From North:
Take I-95 South towards the capital beltway I-495.
Stay at the right of the I-495 fork towards West.
At the fork take the left exit for US-1, stay on the right lane after the ramp to get on US-1 North.
Once you get on US-1 North, make a right turn at the third traffic light on Sunnyside Ave.
After approximately 1/2 mile and past one traffic light you will see an NTB on the Left,
we are located on the building AFTER the NTB on the back side. (Before the railroad tracks)

Let me know what happens. I'd be willing to lend a hand if they needed another mule for testing (if I have the time to).
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Thanks for the info. I'll drop them a line and see if they'd be willing to look at our setup.

-Dan
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
So far, the only real response:


Dan,

  Thank your for your interest in Wilson Manifolds. Wilson Manifolds designs state of the art custom sheet metal intakes for any application. Each manifold is designed, fabricated, and ported specifically for each customer's engine/vehicle combination. Our engineering staff uses the latest CAD/CAM software and computer modeling along with Wilson Manifolds' extensive experience in the development of racing manifolds for many different applications to provide the best possible design for your specific engine/vehicle combination. All machining and fabrication is performed by the country's leading craftsmen utilizing the finest equipment available.

  Available in single or dual carburetor, turbo or blower tops. Also available with fuel injection rails & bungs and/or nitrous oxide injection. Wilson Manifolds is known for its high quality welding and as a result, works closely with Lincoln Electric to continue to develop advanced TIG welding technology.

  Wilson Manifolds sheet metal intakes have been the choice for Greg Anderson, Jason Line, Reher-Morrison, Jon Kaase, Steve Schmidt Racing, Nickens Brothers, Tony Christian, Jim Summers, John Gullet, Precision Turbo, Rob Mansfield, Brandon Switzer and many more.

  Your project would run @ $3800.00, we would need the ported heads, Super Charger & bare block for mock up.



Wilson Manifolds






--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Thomas, Daniel J. [mailto:D[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2004 10:36 AM
To: '[email protected]'
Subject: Custom Intake Manifold



Hi,

I'm interested in availability and ballpark pricing for a custom intake manifold for a supercharger install application.  I'm looking for a fabrication source to build an intake manifold for a Ford 3.0 Duratec DOHC block with a roots style supercharger.  Please advise.

Thank you,
-Dan Thomas
For that, they better be handing me a bolt-on kit :p

-Dan
 

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Originally posted by dant98@Jun 24 2004, 04:10 PM
Get the Duratec. The SHO has been around for ages. All that can be done with it, pretty much has been. It's nice to work on newer technology i think and what you learn working on the Gen 4 will help all the gen 4 people who have only just begun to mess with thier cars (most are just comming off of warrenty now, so many haven't wanted to touch much with it).

My $0.02

-Dan
But the big question is , Do you want a car that is a blast to drive (SHO), or do you want to spend your time and money on a platform that ford is killing shortly and have spent YOUR time and Money, so everyone else does make YOUR mistakes. Better yet, talk to Kirk, he spent about $20,000 doing everything to a Gen 3 SHO you could(well Blower made it to the shop anyhow) the car is on Ebay, and someone is gonna get a hell of a deal, because I bet the reserve is just over $7000. those are the questions you need to answer that is all
 

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Hey Dan,
I emailed Tempest racing in Waldorf to see what they can do. They have nice shop and a Dynojet. You can check them out at www.tempestracing.com

-Jeff
 
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