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Discussion Starter #1
All,
I've run into a bit of an issue after replacing the A/C Evap Core, Upper & lower lines A/C lines AND the heater core. Along with all those parts the Water pump is fairly new (6 months or so) and radiator is newer (about 1 year old) and T-stat was changed out with radiator (according to mechanics charge). Also the Lower and Upper rad hoses were changed with the radiator job. Overfill tank + cap were replaced with all the work done to the heating/cooling system (didn't want the bottle to crack in 6 months)

Anyways, when I flushed and refilled according to the procedure found in the Topic Finder things have been going 'fairly well'. However, when I run the A/C, specifically, I'm noticing the overflow bottle get really full.

At one point it overflowed and was boiling through the cap. I took that cap off (it was new with the aftermarket Dorman Reservoir) and replaced it with the cap that I had from the replaced older Dorman Reservoir. Well today I noticed what that driving around with the A/C on, the tank was filled to the brim and it looked like the coolant was boiling inside (saw some bubbles coming from the bottom of the tank). Important to note that although the reservoir appeared to be completely full, it did not boil over. Within a few mins, the tank started subsiding as I would expect.

I may want to replace the t-stat but I'm not sure yet. Also, both fans are coming on up front as I would expect to cool the radiator. I just can't seem to understand why with all these new parts the coolant is doing this. I never had an issue before.

So, how can I test the temp of the coolant w/out burning the hell out of myself? Also, what should the temperature be? If I have to replace the t-stat, what temp range should I go with (160, 180, 190...). I live in FL so the need for HOT heat, even in the winter, is not really necessary.

Thanks!
 

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How many times has it "boiled over"?? Everything you've described sounds fairly normal. We don't usually SEE what the coolant is doing while driving and such. The easiest/best way to check engine temp IMO is to get a handheld "laser" temp gun. They are pretty accurate. Or install an extra aftermarket temp gauge.

I would go back to stock temp rating on the t-stat, and use Motorcraft/ford parts. I've seen cars with different temp rated t-stats experience driveability issues.
 

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QUOTE (ricer333 @ Mar 31 2009, 04:19 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=714100
All,
I've run into a bit of an issue after replacing the A/C Evap Core, Upper & lower lines A/C lines AND the heater core. Along with all those parts the Water pump is fairly new (6 months or so) and radiator is newer (about 1 year old) and T-stat was changed out with radiator (according to mechanics charge). Also the Lower and Upper rad hoses were changed with the radiator job. Overfill tank + cap were replaced with all the work done to the heating/cooling system (didn't want the bottle to crack in 6 months)

Anyways, when I flushed and refilled according to the procedure found in the Topic Finder things have been going 'fairly well'. However, when I run the A/C, specifically, I'm noticing the overflow bottle get really full.

At one point it overflowed and was boiling through the cap. I took that cap off (it was new with the aftermarket Dorman Reservoir) and replaced it with the cap that I had from the replaced older Dorman Reservoir. Well today I noticed what that driving around with the A/C on, the tank was filled to the brim and it looked like the coolant was boiling inside (saw some bubbles coming from the bottom of the tank). Important to note that although the reservoir appeared to be completely full, it did not boil over. Within a few mins, the tank started subsiding as I would expect.

I may want to replace the t-stat but I'm not sure yet. Also, both fans are coming on up front as I would expect to cool the radiator. I just can't seem to understand why with all these new parts the coolant is doing this. I never had an issue before.

So, how can I test the temp of the coolant w/out burning the hell out of myself? Also, what should the temperature be? If I have to replace the t-stat, what temp range should I go with (160, 180, 190...). I live in FL so the need for HOT heat, even in the winter, is not really necessary.

Thanks![/b]
Are you getting an over temp warning light, or high water temp gauge reading????

If not, then I'd suspect the cooling system didn't get burped good & you have a sizeable air bubble tapped in the cooling system somewhere.

A Motorcraft thermostat with an air bleed valve in it, or other make with an air bleed vave, makes it much easier to bleed the cooling system of trapped air.

With the expansion/overflow tank topped off & after fully warming the engine, park with the front of the vehicle up hill, run the engine some to encourage any trapped air to migrate to the radiator, then, shut it off & let it completely cool, then check the expansion/overflow tank level & see if it dropped any. If so the cooling system had air trapped & has burped.

So top off the overflow tank & repeat until it stops burping.

If you don't think it's trapped air, then maybe the thermostat isn't opening fully, just because it's new doesn't automatically make it good, I've seen plenty of bad new parts right out of the box!!!!

Be sure your using the specified heat range thermostat. Running a colder than specified thermostat will mess with plenty of things, like the emissions system, fuel trim, motor oil & tranny fluid won't lube right, as they're designed to do their things at the engines specified temp range, which is usually around 190-195 F.

If you have a scantool that'll read PID's, you can monitor the computers temp sending units PID to the computer, right from the front seat, with it plugged into the under dash diagnostic port.

If you don't have a scantool & can get to the temp sending unit, pull it's electrical connection & read the temp sending units resistance with an ohm meter & post the reading.

Some autoparts stores have non contact telescopic IR sensors to read temps of engine blocks, ect, in their Loan-A-Tool program, for a refundable deposit, so call around & check.

If your multimeter has a temp probe function, then utilize it to check engine temp.

A bunch of thoughts for pondering, let us know what you find.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
QUOTE (pawpaw @ Mar 31 2009, 05:04 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=714109
QUOTE (ricer333 @ Mar 31 2009, 04:19 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=714100
All,
I've run into a bit of an issue after replacing the A/C Evap Core, Upper & lower lines A/C lines AND the heater core. Along with all those parts the Water pump is fairly new (6 months or so) and radiator is newer (about 1 year old) and T-stat was changed out with radiator (according to mechanics charge). Also the Lower and Upper rad hoses were changed with the radiator job. Overfill tank + cap were replaced with all the work done to the heating/cooling system (didn't want the bottle to crack in 6 months)

Anyways, when I flushed and refilled according to the procedure found in the Topic Finder things have been going 'fairly well'. However, when I run the A/C, specifically, I'm noticing the overflow bottle get really full.

At one point it overflowed and was boiling through the cap. I took that cap off (it was new with the aftermarket Dorman Reservoir) and replaced it with the cap that I had from the replaced older Dorman Reservoir. Well today I noticed what that driving around with the A/C on, the tank was filled to the brim and it looked like the coolant was boiling inside (saw some bubbles coming from the bottom of the tank). Important to note that although the reservoir appeared to be completely full, it did not boil over. Within a few mins, the tank started subsiding as I would expect.

I may want to replace the t-stat but I'm not sure yet. Also, both fans are coming on up front as I would expect to cool the radiator. I just can't seem to understand why with all these new parts the coolant is doing this. I never had an issue before.

So, how can I test the temp of the coolant w/out burning the hell out of myself? Also, what should the temperature be? If I have to replace the t-stat, what temp range should I go with (160, 180, 190...). I live in FL so the need for HOT heat, even in the winter, is not really necessary.

Thanks![/b]
Are you getting an over temp warning light, or high water temp gauge reading????

If not, then I'd suspect the cooling system didn't get burped good & you have a sizeable air bubble tapped in the cooling system somewhere.

A Motorcraft thermostat with an air bleed valve in it, or other make with an air bleed vave, makes it much easier to bleed the cooling system of trapped air.

With the expansion/overflow tank topped off & after fully warming the engine, park with the front of the vehicle up hill, run the engine some to encourage any trapped air to migrate to the radiator, then, shut it off & let it completely cool, then check the expansion/overflow tank level & see if it dropped any. If so the cooling system had air trapped & has burped.

So top off the overflow tank & repeat until it stops burping.

If you don't think it's trapped air, then maybe the thermostat isn't opening fully, just because it's new doesn't automatically make it good, I've seen plenty of bad new parts right out of the box!!!!

Be sure your using the specified heat range thermostat. Running a colder than specified thermostat will mess with plenty of things, like the emissions system, fuel trim, motor oil & tranny fluid won't lube right, as they're designed to do their things at the engines specified temp range, which is usually around 190-195 F.

If you have a scantool that'll read PID's, you can monitor the computers temp sending units PID to the computer, right from the front seat, with it plugged into the under dash diagnostic port.

If you don't have a scantool & can get to the temp sending unit, pull it's electrical connection & read the temp sending units resistance with an ohm meter & post the reading.

Some autoparts stores have non contact telescopic IR sensors to read temps of engine blocks, ect, in their Loan-A-Tool program, for a refundable deposit, so call around & check.

If your multimeter has a temp probe function, then utilize it to check engine temp.

A bunch of thoughts for pondering, let us know what you find.
[/b][/quote]

a friend of mine has the ScanGauge2. We hooked that up and ran it (at idle/ and 2000RPM). The temp got up to 215 and then dropped down to 190 something. So that seems to signal that the t-stat and cooling fans are working as they should.

I never did 'burp' the system... silly me just figured it would burp itself while driving around. Sounds like I should do this at some point soon. Is there a 'proper' way or should I just try to find a 'hill' in flat land Florida to do this?

Thanks for the quick replies.
 

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It should work the air out on its own - that's the degas tank's job.

+1 on the Motorcraft thermostat - I've had a few different aftermarket ones and had nothing but headaches with all of them. I haven't found an aftermarket thermostat that fits the water outlet correctly, since the water outlet and the OEM thermostat are slightly egg-shaped. Every aftermarket one I've found is round, and I don't think I've gotten any aftermarket ones with the jiggle valve, either.

I've had two Dorman degas tanks, one black top (actually a Gen 3 style tank) and one revised clear top (currently). I haven't had a Dorman cap last more than a month - my first one fell apart opening it (I never thought there were THAT many parts in the cap! :lol2:) and the second one didn't hold pressure from the start.
 

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Well if you have a set of ramps, or jack stands, you can fashion your own "hill" in the flat lands!!!! lol

So if you can get the air bubble to work it's way back to the radiator, with it raised, it should burp after a cool down or two.

Some systems are more difficult than others to burp. The heater core is a good air trap, so be sure to set the cabin temp control for MAX heat, so you have max coolant flow through the heater core, to move any air out of it.
 

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With OBDII you can use a scan tool and a laptop to get all kinds of good info, including coolant temp. Here's the scan tool I use: http://obddiagnostics.com/
 

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QUOTE (mt_goat @ Mar 31 2009, 08:51 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=714165
With OBDII you can use a scan tool and a laptop to get all kinds of good info, including coolant temp. Here's the scan tool I use: http://obddiagnostics.com/[/b]
On my 97 with a 96 3.0L Vulcan, i am having similar issues. New radiator, flushed block, new aftermarket
thermostat with jiggle valve, new water pump. It has not puked yet, but runs way to hot for my tastes.

I really think that its some crack in one of the heads that only happens once the motor is warmed up.
If it gets bad enough and pukes, the heads will come off and we will see.

bob
 

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Sounds to me like it is doing what it should. When cold fill the degass tank up to the top. Put the new cap back on. Drive around for a while normally. The next day when cold fill it up to the top again. Repeat this cycle for a couple of days and the coolant should stay withing an inch of the top where it should be. Pay no attention to the cold/hot marks on the tank.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
wanted to add something to this thread, and get some feedback.

first, after about a month of problem free coolant/reservoir issues, this past Sunday it decided to bubble over again. I was heading into a bowling league, so I just left it. When I came back all but 1" of coolant was all over the parking lot. Luckily I had some spare in the trunk (been carrying around since this all started).

There was no signs of this. Again, the A/C was on, but I was driving highway and you would think that the air from the drive + the air from the fans would keep everything nice and cool.

So, I decided to do a little experiment here. I just came back from a 20 minute drive. The temp gauge got up to normal and the heat in the cabin was HOT. When I parked the car I proceed to take the cap off! I KNOW, I KNOW, you're not supposed to do that because the cap and reservoir are pressurized which in turns lowers the boiling point. Taking the pressure away raises the boiling point and can explode all over you and the car.

Here's the thing, I didn't hear any hissing (as pressure escapes) that I have heard with previous tanks/tops. This is the 2nd top, one that I took from the working tank that I had no issues with when I replaced this one (I replaced it in hopes of not having the tank develop a crack and costing me all this time).

So, does anyone else's car hiss and expand when the coolant is at temp?

I did see some flow back from the tube that connects the reservoir to the back of the engine. When I saw this flow back I immediately screwed the cap on tight again and it proceed to lower the level of the coolant.

This signals to me that some pressure is being held by the cap. But I'm starting to think that this tank/cap combo isn't holding the 16psi that it is rated for. IF the pressure isn't being held, it could explain the bubbling over (b/c the coolant is raising above boiling point). This would also explain the bubbles that I see when it is bubbling over (bubbles within the tank).

Am I correct or just losing my mind here?
 

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Heat soak can cause boiling after shut down, especially if the system isn't holding pressure and you're running close to the boiling pt. Its happened to me before (different vehicle) at very high elevations (like 11-12,000 ft). When it happens coolant is pushed out of the system by the expanding gases. My over-flow tank would drain out all over the ground.

Another possiblity is a blown head gasket sending combustion gases into the coolant.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
QUOTE (mt_goat @ May 5 2009, 09:35 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=723141
Heat soak can cause boiling after shut down, especially if the system isn't holding pressure and you're running close to the boiling pt. Its happened to me before (different vehicle) at very high elevations (like 11-12,000 ft). When it happens coolant is pushed out of the system by the expanding gases. My over-flow tank would drain out all over the ground.

Another possiblity is a blown head gasket sending combustion gases into the coolant.[/b]

what is 'heat soak'? also, wouldn't there be some other signs of a blown head gasket? everything seems to be running fine with the engine minus this once in awhile boiling over.

thanks for the reply!
 

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QUOTE (ricer333 @ May 5 2009, 07:08 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=723111
wanted to add something to this thread, and get some feedback.

first, after about a month of problem free coolant/reservoir issues, this past Sunday it decided to bubble over again. I was heading into a bowling league, so I just left it. When I came back all but 1" of coolant was all over the parking lot. Luckily I had some spare in the trunk (been carrying around since this all started).

There was no signs of this. Again, the A/C was on, but I was driving highway and you would think that the air from the drive + the air from the fans would keep everything nice and cool.

So, I decided to do a little experiment here. I just came back from a 20 minute drive. The temp gauge got up to normal and the heat in the cabin was HOT. When I parked the car I proceed to take the cap off! I KNOW, I KNOW, you're not supposed to do that because the cap and reservoir are pressurized which in turns lowers the boiling point. Taking the pressure away raises the boiling point and can explode all over you and the car.

Here's the thing, I didn't hear any hissing (as pressure escapes) that I have heard with previous tanks/tops. This is the 2nd top, one that I took from the working tank that I had no issues with when I replaced this one (I replaced it in hopes of not having the tank develop a crack and costing me all this time).

So, does anyone else's car hiss and expand when the coolant is at temp?

I did see some flow back from the tube that connects the reservoir to the back of the engine. When I saw this flow back I immediately screwed the cap on tight again and it proceed to lower the level of the coolant.

This signals to me that some pressure is being held by the cap. But I'm starting to think that this tank/cap combo isn't holding the 16psi that it is rated for. IF the pressure isn't being held, it could explain the bubbling over (b/c the coolant is raising above boiling point). This would also explain the bubbles that I see when it is bubbling over (bubbles within the tank).

Am I correct or just losing my mind here?[/b]
You could have more than one problem on the heat soak upchuck.

Seeing as how your radiator cap is 8 years old, maybe consider having it pressure tested, or better yet considering it's vintage replace it.

I'd also consider having the fan temp switch tested too, as it should turn on & cool things down if the heat soak temps get high enough.

Check your coolant to water mix ratio, it should be 50% distilled water, to 50% coolant.

Also check in front of & between the AC condensor & radiator for plastic bags, varment nests, bug debris, mud, ect, restricting air flow.

Some more thoughts for consideration, let us know what you find.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Just wanted to clarify some things, cause maybe I haven't been clear.
The cap is not 8 years old. The cap is 8-9 months old and the reservoir is 1-2 months old (and i replaced the cap that came with the reservoir originally -- thinking cap problems). I only replaced these parts when I was doing the heater core/ evap core replacement seeing as the coolant had to be replaced. I figured that the tank and cap should be replaced because they tend to crack (my own experience).

I could have it pressured tested, I agree.

There is not enough foreign debreis in the rad fins or anything else to prevent proper cooling.

I have mixed the coolant myself after a proper flush. Everything that has gone in is 50/50 mix. I buy 100% coolant and mix it with distilled water before it hits the tank.

Also, I never had this problem before doing the Evap Core, Heater Core, High/Low A/C line replacement and Coolant Flush and fill. Again, I replaced all those parts and decided to replace the Reservoir/Cap with a Dorman from AZ.

Again, just curious, does your Bull not hiss when you crack the cap of the reservoir tank when the coolant is hot? I tend to remember this happening.
 

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QUOTE (ricer333 @ May 5 2009, 08:57 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=723149
QUOTE (mt_goat @ May 5 2009, 09:35 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=723141
Heat soak can cause boiling after shut down, especially if the system isn't holding pressure and you're running close to the boiling pt. Its happened to me before (different vehicle) at very high elevations (like 11-12,000 ft). When it happens coolant is pushed out of the system by the expanding gases. My over-flow tank would drain out all over the ground.

Another possiblity is a blown head gasket sending combustion gases into the coolant.[/b]

what is 'heat soak'? also, wouldn't there be some other signs of a blown head gasket? everything seems to be running fine with the engine minus this once in awhile boiling over.

thanks for the reply!
[/b][/quote]


From this link I quote: http://cjbfire.com/Heatsoak.pdf

QUOTE
The phenomenon known as "heat soak" occurs when the engine is turned off. At this time, the combustion process is terminated. This terminates the momentum of the crankshaft, which in turn stops the turning of the water pump. As the coolant is no longer being circulated, the engine block and cylinder temperature increase for a period of approximately 3 to 10 minutes, depending on the engine design and additional components.
2 Source: Chilton’s Auto Repair Manual, Chilton Book Co., 1986, pg. U183
During this time, the engine block radiates heat to the air surrounding the engine, which slowly cools the engine. However, the cooling process occurs slowly, and as a result, the temperature of the engine block transfers the heat to the coolant. The coolant temperature then increases, which in turn increases the pressure inside the coolant system. This is why the vehicle's coolant temperature gauge increases over a period of time after the engine has been turned off.[/b]
 

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Get the cap tested. If it is good and seals on the tank then you have a leak some where else.

FWIW if you have ever cross threaded the cap then the tank is probably hosed.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
QUOTE (SHOZ123 @ May 6 2009, 12:03 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=723178
Get the cap tested. If it is good and seals on the tank then you have a leak some where else.

FWIW if you have ever cross threaded the cap then the tank is probably hosed.[/b]

Ok, how do I go about doing this? I saw one mechanic back in the day put some device onto the tank where the cap would go and use some sort of hand pump to add pressure to the system. This is how the leak in the radiator was found about a year and a half ago. Would this same device be used? Is there another way to test the cap?

Thanks guys (and gals)! I have a road trip starting tomorrow afternoon. I may just have to spring for a new Motorcraft degauss tank and cap. :(
 

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They have a special pressure tester for the Ford tanks and caps. AutoZone should have it.
 

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Ricer, I'll respond to your PM here in case someone else might need the info, or some with more knowledge might have something to add.

I didn't mean to scare you, I was just throwing out possibilities. I think the first thing I'd do is pressure test the cooling system to see if its holding pressure. If its holding pressure, both cold and warm, I might have the coolant tested to see if there are signs of exhaust gas in it. Other things to check for a possible HG failure would be a simple exam of the spark plugs and keep an eye on the engine oil (looking for signs of coolant mixing with the oil). Blackstone labs will run a used oil analysis (UOA) for about $20 and part of the test is for coolant in the oil. http://www.blackstone-labs.com/

Blown head gasket signs are basicly one or more of the following things; coolant in oil, oil in coolant, exhaust gas in coolant, or coolant in exhaust (the last shows itself as lots of white smoke out the tail pipe, usually at start up)

Another possibility is a cracked head, but that and the blown head gasket may be unlikely with your engine. I haven't been around these Ford engines very long to know their weak points. I owned a Toyota truck engine (3VZE) that the head gasket was a very weak point so I know the signs of a blown head gasket very well.

Gasket failures and cracks are weird, they will open up and close back sometimes depending on the temp and/or the rate of change of the temp.

Good luck
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Thanks SHO and Goat for the replies.

I did a good old Google search and found this write-up on pressure testing. Although this says to pressure test the Cap, it doesn't say how to.

The picture of the 'Radiator Pressure Test Kit' is exactly what I have seen other mechanics use before.

Just FYI, the dealership wants $40 to pressure test it. I'm sure that I can get the kit from an auto parts store for about that price, right?

Link: http://www.aa1car.com/library/coolant_leaks.htm


The 2nd link really expands (no pun intended) the write-up
Link: http://www.troubleshooters.com/tpromag/200204/200204.htm

So, guess it's time to invest in pressure test kit and make sure things are sound before this trip to Jacksonville this weekend!
 
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