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Nearly 100 years ago, the Ford Model T averaged 25 miles per gallon. In 2003, the average Ford car and truck got just 22.6 mpg.
thats because we love POWER!!!!
If the price for all our beloved power is a measly 2.4mpg decrease in our current average 100+ yrs later then it has been worth it considering how much more efficient today's gasoline engine is compared to its predecessors. It generates loads more power in a smaller package than was previously thought possible. Let the enviro weenies think what they will, they will be wishing that they had chosen a Taurus when their little Prius gets hit by any number of the suvs proliferating this nation of ours.
 
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It's called being competitive with the rest of the market. And like sabledale said - we love POWER!! We don't want it to take half an hour to get to 60 mph.
I'm sure those hippies will really do some damage to Ford
They better get after some of the other auto makers, too. Dodge is dumping it's Hemi into everything - they are going to be the problem area before Ford is.
 
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I do agree with the article that auto manufactures need to work on getting better gas milage, etc but I see no reason why they are targeting ford. I think its the stupid trend that "bigger is better."

About the escape hybrid, I hope it comes out soon, if not I hope ford is using this time for R & D. Considering the other hybrids out on the market today have above average reliability, it would be a shame for the escape to have problems. I'm wondering what hybrid offerings there will be for cars from ford or any other manufactures. Honda is already talking about a hybrid v6 accord and oddessy with variable cylinder management due out in fall 2004
 
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The Escape seems to be Ford's baby right now in the SUV department. I think they've done a very nice job with it so far and am confident that their hybrid powertrane will be on par with the quality shown so far. I am also anxious to see what they come up with. Generally speaking, I think Ford is usually really good about about getting their crap together before releasing a product (no need to mention the first gen Focus or V8 SHO's for that matter).
 

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Why are they targetting Ford? Ford is actually MAKING a hybrid vehicle unlike many car companies I can name right now. Seems kinda silly to compare a Model T to a modern car. Unless they don't mind bugs flying in their face, and no idea of what a climate control, radio, RUBBER tires, or shock absorbers are, ok, I'll give them that one.

What a bunch of fools. My Taurus gets better mileage than a Camry or Accord V-6 (As does the Dura) and only needs regular fuel. Why not target those polluting Japanese companies too? Oh yeah, all their cars just put out fairy dust and other magical things that help re-build our atmosphere.
 
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Originally posted by sabledale@Mar 17 2004, 10:51 PM
just a question.
Why do so many avid enviromentalist drive Hummers(the real thing) but yet go after the excursion for bad gas milage?
I couldn't tell ya - but a Diesel Excusion doesn't get all that bad of mileage.
 

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Did the model T have catalytic converters?

STFU TREE HUGGERS
 

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Considering that the Model T had a whopping 8 horsepower and the average car/truck has about 150 horsepower. Correct me if I'm wrong but we have gotten 142 more horsepower with essentially the same amount of fuel. They have the audacity to say that cars have gotten inefficient. If these people were as concerned about the environment as they sound, the wouldn't be driving down the road, eatind McDonalds, throwing the wrappers out the window, releasing evil CFC's into the atmosphere with there older more efficient air conditioners, causing some damn carbon monoxide with their 4,000 some odd candles spread throughout their house because using 1kW/hr will pollute the environent too much. They wouldn't be smoking their pack of cigarettes a day, rolling their medicinal herb in paper because god forbid that we use some trees, for if we do there will be none left for these hippies to hug.
 

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Its the usual sensationalist crap PETA, GreenPeace and every other enviro group uses to try and get their point across... what they also forget to mention in their little comparo is that 1) the Model T used cruder forms of gasoline (I think it was even a gas/kerosene mix) 2) it didn't have the emission systems found in modern cars (cat converters, ECU's to change the engine performance for maximum efficiency, etc.).

What do you get with all that? Sure the Model T does a couple more MPG, but the exhaust gases that it puts out in the process are probably 100X more saturated in pollutants and other not-so-enviro-friendly emissions compared to modern cars.
 

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Why the hell are they beatin on us and not GM? All they pretty much produce anymore are gas guzzling SUVs.
 

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assmonkeys..
 

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Nearly 100 years ago, the Ford Model T averaged 25 miles per gallon. In 2003, the average Ford car and truck got just 22.6 mpg.
thats because we love POWER!!!!
Not to mention more room and better utility. I don't know about you, but cars like the Prius and Echo can cause claustrophobia! Oh, let's not forget that a hybrid will be costlier to service should anything go wrong.

Not intending to knock hybrids, but it's still a relatively new technology. I'd rather wait to see if hybrids will advance further to where it can be used in a midsize vehicle with comparable power to a regular drivetrain.

However, for saving the environment I'm willing to bet that fuel cell vehicles will dominate sooner or later. - Reinhart
 

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Originally posted by 93taurusSX@Mar 18 2004, 02:08 AM
Its the usual sensationalist crap PETA, GreenPeace and every other enviro group uses to try and get their point across... what they also forget to mention in their little comparo is that 1) the Model T used cruder forms of gasoline (I think it was even a gas/kerosene mix) 2) it didn't have the emission systems found in modern cars (cat converters, ECU's to change the engine performance for maximum efficiency, etc.).

What do you get with all that? Sure the Model T does a couple more MPG, but the exhaust gases that it puts out in the process are probably 100X more saturated in pollutants and other not-so-enviro-friendly emissions compared to modern cars.
Well, what do you expect from a group of people with probably almost no knowledge of cars? The knowledge that they probably have is that they use fossil fuels and pollute the atmosphere as a consequence.

They mention gas milage, but they forget about power output versus fuel consumption, not to mention emissions.

Also, they are just like any other advocacy, IMO. They lie through silence. They will say anything that will bolster their point, but disregard anything that will prove them wrong. The comparison between a Model T versus a Taurus is an example. They state the alleged truth of slightly superior fuel economy on the Model T but fail to mention, perhaps deliberately or through sheer ignorance, that a Taurus has substantially more power, the ability to achieve a higher speed and maintain it, strict emissions controls, has a higher curb weight, and precision computerized regulation for drivetrain functions. Of course, as another poster mentioned, the Taurus would require a fuel having better refinement over what was used back in that day. It's a comparison that is highly flawed. The Taurus is more efficient than the Model T not becaue of the petty difference in gas milage, but because the Taurus is able to squeeze more power out of the same amount of fuel at one time. While the greens didn't state an outright lie, they are still fibbing by omitting important points, even though those very points would work against their argument. They are shaping opinion by using flawed information with flawed interpretation of that data and presenting flawed conclusions.

If you find fallacies like that in an argument, that by itself may be enough to question the honesty and integrity of the person or organization that presented it. - Reinhart

P.S. Perhaps I ought to send them an e-mail about this, although it will either fall on deaf ears or my inbox may get bombed by those unwilling to consider different viewpoints.
 

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Well, if today's F series had an open cab, wooden frame, and weighed like 1,000 pounds, yeah it could probably get better mpg than a damn Model T, but nowadays even with more power and less mpg, the exhaust is CLEANER!!!! Hell you could drive a SUV and still have cleaner exhaust than a econo box, its all about the tech they use now.

I can get around 31 mpg on lond highway trips, and 25-28 mpg most of the time around LSU and some highway driving. Thats good enough for me!!! Its not 55 mpg, but then I'D RATHER LIVE IN AN ACCIDENT!!!!


Lol and the idiots claim Ford isnt pushing the hybrids enough, there is no damn market for them!!! Except for a bunch of cali people and some hippies that want an SUV while still *claiming* they help the environment.

HAHAHAHAHA this dude from Greenpeace came up to me at LSU and asked if I wanted to save the trees or some s***, I looked at him and yelled BURN THE FVCKIN TREES!!!!!! Lol it was hilarious, quite a few people were around all ROFLMAO!!!! I've also told these organizations that I give a rats a** about whales, endangered roaches, or most of the BS they push, think from now on every time they come up to me I'll just say burn whatever they are pushing at the time lol
 

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Diamler Chrysler is cruising to be the next target of the enviroweenies since they are starting to put the "Hemi" into more and more of their product line. They will have to start giving away neons and all their 4 cyl models inorder to try to maintain their CAFE mpg ratings or face heavy government fines
 

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I know this topic is old, but I just saw it and wanted to add something untouched on by previous posters:

Where did the enviro-wackos get that the Model T got 25 mpg?

According to Ford's :ford: Model T Facts Page (Model T Facts):

The Model T was introduced on Oct. 1, 1908. It had a 20-horsepower, four-cylinder engine, reached a top speed of about 45 miles per hour, got about 13 to 21 miles per gallon of gasoline and weighed 1,200 pounds. It was the ninth of Henry Ford's production cars.

The enviro-wackos are outright lying!!! 13 to 21 is less than 22.6 and far less than the 25 mpg Sierra Club claims!!! So Ford's average mpg increased as well as hp between the 20 hp Model T and my 2004 155 hp Vulcan-powered Taurus. :tcca_small: Plus, my Taurus is cleaner burning, safer, more comfortable, and has features no one could have even fathomed in 1908!!! Plus I can go way past 45 mph!!!

This, of course, is typical of environmental extremists who don't think twice about bending the truth or suppressing debate to advance their cause of restoring us to the peasant life before cars, technology, and the numerous other advances that have transformed us from utter worldwide poverty to the quality of life enjoyed in the developed world post-Industrial Revolution.
 
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