[Idiot Sable]

its been three times doing the same repair changing the oil pan gasket and the front seal at Ford dealer and its never been fixed yet it's still leaking. The problem the dealer mechanics always tell me that they are sure about the problem. WTF, so fix it. I am disappointed i dont know how make them fixed it i feel like an idiot i was thinking to go to the court i dont know, the dealer is really careless about the problem and i am not sure if they really work on the car or not they just let me park it in the morning and pick it up at the end of the day. They charged for the service 500 bucks and the car is 04 mercury sable LS

Please help, the problem has been for a year now

 

[rudedog]

front(crankshaft) seal or oil pan gasket??? there have been a couple of updates along the years for oil pan gaskets for the Vulcan.

 

[Idiot Sable]

the engine is not vulcan its Duratic

 

[mediarocker]

Duratec? So wait, do you have a picture of where the leak is? It's kinda hard to tell what it is. It's really hard to chase leaks because sometimes their point of discovery is completely different than point of origin. A big one on these cars that occurs is the rear main where the transmission and engine join. I've noticed this occurs in the vehicles later years. Matter of fact it happens in most FWD vehicles i've owned around 90-100K miles.

 

[Idiot Sable]

Dear mediarocker

its really hard to see where the leack comes from i cant tell since the oil leak amount is so small like tiny drops. I have thought about the possibilty of oil leak origin being from the main rear seal i have talked to mechanics about it they denied it completely they still insist the problem is coming from the oil pan gasket!!!!!
the car mileage is almost 89000 miles

 

[dbfruth]

The Vulcan can leak between the crankshaft end and the inner part of the harmonic balancer if not sealed with a little RTV before the harmonic balancer to crank bolt is installed. The oil will work its way down the key way past the bolt on the balancer. Also if the harmonic balancer has a grove scored into it by the old oil seal the scored area can cause the new seal to fail prematurely. If that is the case there is a repair sleeve that can be slid over the balancer to restore a smooth sealing surface

Edit -oops just I read your earlier post, So is the leak from the transmission side or belt side?

 

[wjc]

You can at least determine the end or side of the engine that's leaking, narrowing it down to front or rear. I kind of doubt the dealer is that daft, not to be able to determine whether it's the front or rear main leaking (wind will blow it to the left or right of the engine, not front/rear).

Three possibilities come to mind: it really is the front main seal leaking, and the problem is the crank thrust bearing is worn out, which makes the crank move back and forth too much on the lip seals. OR the lower block half is leaking, where it's mated with permatex from the factory. That would require pulling the engine. OR the timing cover gasket is leaking, almost impossible to see on the front of that motor jammed into the Taurus engine bay.

Have they done a flourescent dye test? That usually involves cleaning the motor, dropping dye in the oil, letting the customer drive a week, then returning. With a blacklight and a dark room, you're almost guaranteed to find the source. You can actually do this test yourself. If the dealer hasn't done this, I wouldn't give them any more chances.

 

[Monsoon]

OK a couple of questions. I operate and own a Duratec / Sable LS, great engine by the way.

1st, 89K is the magic number where the OEM pan gasket is either leaking or starts to leak. What year is your Sable?

I replaced my pan gasket around 110K miles. OEM pan gaskets are very common to leak at or around 100K miles with the Duratec's from my experience.

I don't have a front or rear main seal leak and I'm approaching 200K miles. When I replaced the OEM gasket I went and got another motorcraft gasket and used a small bead of silicone to install it. It's been on for about 3-years has hasn't leaked a drop.

Here's what I would recommend and its kind of a PITA. Get some degreaser and spray the bottom part of the engine and oil pan and clean it up. Rinse it off with the garden hose.

Drive the car for a couple of miles go underneath the car and see where the real leaks are. This way you can verify what really needs replacement. Pan gasket? Seals? Or both? If the dealer says seals when you only need a pan gasket well then you may want to find another location to replace the pan gasket.

I haven't replaced the seals so I don't know the details that go into this job. The pan gasket is a straight forward task. The only tricky part with the pan gasket replacement is dropping the Y-pipe low enough to slip the oil pan away from the engine. Other than that its bolt removal clean it up and stuff a new pan gasket in place. Torque the pan bolts once when its cold and once when the engine warm.

Monsoon

 

[Idiot Sable]

my sable is 200 u guys talking to someone who never ever even changed his car's oil i am not good in cars so i am asking u to help end the dealer stupidity

 

[wjc]

my sable is 200 u guys talking to someone who never ever even changed his car's oil i am not good in cars so i am asking u to help end the dealer stupidity

Unfortunately you'll have to learn the basics to be able to help yourself out with things like this. The dealer will be stupid as long as you keep paying him. If you don't want to deal with it yourself, then simply take it to another shop and explain the problem completely.

 

[Idiot Sable]

thats frustrating i wish i could die and never be sucks in cars

 

[Monsoon]

You have to remember the dealer is in business to make money. If you don't know what you're talking about the dealer could charge just about anything that is reasonable.

One of issues I have with the dealer is I can never talk to the mechanic. I have to talk to the service manager. In a lot of cases the service manager doesn't know **** from apple butter and doesn't have to, to do their job. They are there to deliver the vehicle back to you without a lot of details.

If you ask technical questions to the service manger and he says "I don't know", my confidence factor is dropping by the minute. You're paying good money to have the dealer fix your car and the he doesn't know anything? Get a clue. If I'm forking out money to fix my car he better know something other than "Your car is ready". Really? My 6-year old son can say that.

It's time to find some one else that is more customer knowledgeable. And keep in mind not all dealers are the same. I've been to some really cheesy Ford / Mercury dealers (Albuquerque) and I've been to some really good ones (Tempe). Keep your wits about you. If they are trying to sell you something you don't need, a red flag goes up.

Monsoon

 

[james27613]

hi,

please check the pcv valve.
wife 1999 sable had oil pan gasket leaks, small at first,
then the care was oozing oil from the pan gasket at multiple places.

I pulled the PCV valve and there were no guts inside of it!

Replaced the valve and no more oil leaks.

regards

 

[Idiot Sable]

James, your experience sounds reasonable for me and it sounds an easy job. What do you mean by " I found no guts inside it" its sounds Jargon for me

 

[mediarocker]

James, your experience sounds reasonable for me and it sounds an easy job. What do you mean by " I found no guts inside it" its sounds Jargon for me

The PCV Valve should "rattle" when you take it off and shake it. This is how the PCV valve functions properly, without the rattle, the part that makes it work is not present.

 

[sheila]

Or gunked up. Spray with carb. clnr., etc.

 

[akdonkey]

Where is that PCV valve your talking about I will look at that on mine. I dont believe my pan is leaking but its leaking from the rear of the motor up high running down my transmission

 

[sheila]

Akdonkey, what eng., what yr.?

 

[sheila]

If its a vulcan, itll be on rear valve cover, pass. side. If its a duratec, it could be in 3 diff. places depending on the yr.

 

[arizonian]

I chased a "pan" leak on my wife's car for a year...


Right now the motor is out of the car...

Plugged up the breathers and added minimal air pressure to the crank case and found the leak...

The timing cover gasket was bad...

Should find out this weekend if my fix works...

Bill