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Hard Starting...long Cranking

47K views 27 replies 13 participants last post by  gtx2000 
#1 ·
i have a '98 Taurus w/the 24V V6. lately, it's been difficult to get her started...i crank and crank on it, but it just won't fire up!

i see ford has tsb 98-21-12 on what sounds like this. does anyone have an answer to it?

after i get it running...it runs just like the first day i had it. doesn't stall or idle roughly....and no service engine light either.

any help would be appreciated.

thanks in advance,

joe
 
#3 ·
Sounds like a weak battery to me. How long since the battery has been replaced, if at all? How cold is it where you are? The colder is it, the harder it will be for your battery to crank that starter. So a weak battery in freezing temperatures will have a helluva time cranking that starter.
 
#4 ·
thanks for the replies...

well, can't be the cold...i'm in southern california, and the battery is just a couple years old. it cranks and cranks...but it just won't fire up for 4 or 5 10-15 second tries.

someone also mentioned the multi-pack relay...???

but like i said....it runs fine after it's started.
 
#6 ·
I think this is a Duratec thing. Alot of guys here complain of the same problem. I don't know if there is a fix for it.
 
#8 ·
Originally posted by PC_Marine@Jan 15 2004, 04:20 PM
My 2000 w/ the vulcan has been hard starting ever since it's gotten cold outside.

To avoid cranking the starter forever, I lightly press the gas pedal which usually fires the engine right up.
I'm thinking this is a fuel related problem, but like someone else said it could be a battery related problem. Since I live in WI, it's like <20 degrees F outside, and my battery hasn't been replaced ever (I have 70K miles).
 
#9 ·
Take it into Kragen or Autozone and have the charging system checked. Rule out the charging system first. If it checks out find, it may be your fuel system. Could be a fuel pump problem.

There can be a number of reasons why you are having starting problems. I woud discribe everything, but I don't have time to break it all down. But, start with the charging system (battery & alternator).
 
G
#10 ·
Originally posted by fix_it_joe@Jan 15 2004, 01:33 PM
well, can't be the cold...i'm in southern california, and the battery is just a couple years old. it cranks and cranks...but it just won't fire up for 4 or 5 10-15 second tries.
Im in socal and my mom's battery just crapped out on her windstar. Dont rule anything out. Autozone does free battery testing while the battery is in the car, as well as complimentary replacement.
 
#11 ·
Originally posted by fix_it_joe@Jan 15 2004, 03:52 PM
i have a '98 Taurus w/the 24V V6. lately, it's been difficult to get her started...i crank and crank on it, but it just won't fire up!

i see ford has tsb 98-21-12 on what sounds like this. does anyone have an answer to it?

after i get it running...it runs just like the first day i had it. doesn't stall or idle roughly....and no service engine light either.

any help would be appreciated.

thanks in advance,

joe
hold down on the gas pedal while cranking. but do have this checked. also are your spark plugs clean? You did say you live in S. Cali. so it can't be the weather. do have it checked out immediately. BUt in case if you get stuck, cranking+holding down gas pedal usually fires it up.
 
#12 ·
My engine sometimes takes a couple seconds to crank but I have to remember it is -30 degrees outside. I never have to touch the gas pedal though.
 
#14 ·
If it was a fuel delivery problem then the car would not be running normal after it has finally turned over. Your car would have a hard time starting then would cough and sputter and run like complete a** if there was a fuel delivery problem.
One thing you can do, though, if you have not already. Let the fuel lines pressurize themselves before you start it. Put the key in the ON position and leave it there for about 5 seconds. This pressurizes the fuel lines which gets the injectors ready to fire. Try it and see if it becomes any easier to start the car.
 
#15 ·
To anyone who has to press the gas pedal a bit to get the engine to start: You have a non-funtional Idle Air Control Valve (IAC). Period.

Steve
 
#18 ·
I had this problem for the first time today.
Waiting for the lines to prime allowed me to start the car.
 
#19 ·
Originally posted by PC_Marine@Jan 15 2004, 05:20 PM
My 2000 w/ the vulcan has been hard starting ever since it's gotten cold outside.

To avoid cranking the starter forever, I lightly press the gas pedal which usually fires the engine right up.
Up here in Boston just a couple days ago it reached -29 with the windchill. In other words its pretty goddamn cold this winter. Anyways, my car usually fires right up. But because of the temps during the last week or so I have to press the button twice on my remote starter every morning. WhenI press the button for the first time, the engine cranks but fails to start. I'll press it again and it will start up just fine.
 
#20 ·
Don't forget to check the fuel pressure regulator. if the rubber in the regulator goes bad it lets the fuel drain back into the tank. Heroin you may need to crank for sometime before the fuel reaches the fuel rail. all of you with this problem get the fuel pressure checked make sure it holds pressure for more the 10 mins without losing 5 psi if is loses more the 5 psi in 10 mins replace the fuel pressure regulator
 
#21 ·
I'm pretty sure that on the 98 there is no fuel return to the gas tank. Everything is in one direct path from the tank to the injectors. I know my 2000 has a "Returnless Fuel System" so I wouldn't be surprised if the 98 was the same. I don't think it's the IAC valve though. My Scirocco used to have the same problem as it would loose fuel pressure quickly after shut down. By taping the gas, it signals the PCM through the TPS to flow more fuel, and in the case of not having enough pressure, it's enough fuel to start and idle. I'm sure of this because the Scirocco doesn't even have an IAC valve that opens and closes. It's always open as it's a little hex screw on the back of the intake manifold and it moves a spring that opens the bypass plate. Was a real problem too because it would often vibrate out and the engine idle would increase (that is until I lock-tighted that baby down). And, if I turned the keep to ON I would hear the fuel pumps start buzzing, give them maybe 5 seconds at an extreme most, and it would kick right over no problem. I'm guessing fuel delivery problem.

-mobiuslogic

EDIT: Forgot to mention that I've also had this problem in the taurus, but like Twilight said, I just let the line get some pressure in them and it fires right up too. And my battery is A-OK. Batteries tend to last longer in warmer climates.
 
#22 ·
Originally posted by mobiuslogic@Jan 17 2004, 04:03 AM
I'm pretty sure that on the 98 there is no fuel return to the gas tank. Everything is in one direct path from the tank to the injectors. I know my 2000 has a "Returnless Fuel System" so I wouldn't be surprised if the 98 was the same. I don't think it's the IAC valve though. My Scirocco used to have the same problem as it would loose fuel pressure quickly after shut down. By taping the gas, it signals the PCM through the TPS to flow more fuel, and in the case of not having enough pressure, it's enough fuel to start and idle. I'm sure of this because the Scirocco doesn't even have an IAC valve that opens and closes. It's always open as it's a little hex screw on the back of the intake manifold and it moves a spring that opens the bypass plate. Was a real problem too because it would often vibrate out and the engine idle would increase (that is until I lock-tighted that baby down). And, if I turned the keep to ON I would hear the fuel pumps start buzzing, give them maybe 5 seconds at an extreme most, and it would kick right over no problem. I'm guessing fuel delivery problem.

-mobiuslogic

EDIT: Forgot to mention that I've also had this problem in the taurus, but like Twilight said, I just let the line get some pressure in them and it fires right up too. And my battery is A-OK. Batteries tend to last longer in warmer climates.
2000 was the start of returnless 98 and 99 have return. Somewhere I read says 99 had returnless but my 99 has return. But either way it doesn't matter.

My theory on this is that the pressure check valve doesn't hold the pressure as well when it is really cold so it leaks back into the tank (return or returnless still the same) that is why cycling the key works. Second the fuel in the rails and at the injector tips is to cold to atomize properly so it takes a few tries to get it or it takes steping on the gas all the way to cut the fuel pump because the cylinder is flooded.

Tapping the gas does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. The Taurus is a FI car and the only signal a FI car will take when not running is WOT and it uses that as a signal to cut the fuel pump because the engine is flooded.

However in the case of my specific car. I have a larger injectors and a larger maf tuned to the injectors. The setup works fine when running but at startup there is too much fuel because the computer just uses a default injector firing program for the stock injectors. Because of this my car fires immediately every time every day of the year on the first run after being stopped 6 hours or more. But if my car has been sitting 1 hour then it won't start. I can crank till the cows come home and it won't start because it is flooded so I have to hold the throttle open slightly to let more air in then the IAC allows then let off as soon as the engine fires.

You can ask Twilight about it. I demonstrated it to him a couple times. If I crank and crank then I get a puff of grey smoke when it starts from the fuel burning off.
 
#23 ·
Didn't know 2000 was the start of the returnless system. I don't know, but the tapping seems to work for me no problem and it. Note I didn't mean like a little weak sh!t tap, I was meaning like up to 50% throttle but I do it really quick like a tap. Should have been clearer. Worked on the Scirocco and the Taurus when it does so I'm


-mobiuslogic
 
#24 ·
Originally posted by mobiuslogic@Jan 17 2004, 12:13 PM
Didn't know 2000 was the start of the returnless system. I don't know, but the tapping seems to work for me no problem and it. Note I didn't mean like a little weak sh!t tap, I was meaning like up to 50% throttle but I do it really quick like a tap. Should have been clearer. Worked on the Scirocco and the Taurus when it does so I'm


-mobiuslogic
That is a "all in your mind" thing just like the IAT mod. Moving the pedal with the engine running does absolutely nothing.
 
G
#26 ·
Proper diagnosis is the key here. When it cranks and does not start, is it due to a lack of fuel or spark?

In regards to the TSB, could you post the info in the TSB?

If I had to take a guess, it would be the crank sensor.
 
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