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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
i have a 1997 ford taurus dohc motor with 130,000 miles on it , i did the complete tune up including a coil pack ,fuel pump,,motor craft air control valve ,maf sencor,,,pcv valve and u shaped hose,and new throttle body sencor and air cleaner, and fuel filter.. new alt,,,, new motorcraft battery, my thottle bodys shaft had a air leak and so did the lower intake manifold shaft also had a air leak so replaced them both with a low milage car from a jy,new gaskets,and replaced the throttle body from the same low milage car,,i had the car smoke tested,, , the problem iam having is in the morning when its warm out side at a cold start the car cranks like 2 to 3 times before it starts ,,,, sometimes it has a hard time starting ,, but when the car is warmed up it starts every time with the first crank ,, and the cold car in the morning before warmed up the idle is a little higher and i can feel miss after the car ,,,, after warmed up there is still a miss fire and the thottle body has a flat spot , it had a flat spot in the throttle body with the old throttle body , and when the the car is running i was under the hood giving it gas at idle the flat spot wants to make the motor die ,, i checked for air leaks could not find any ,, put new hoses that goes to both valve covers from the air cleaner tube , i noticed when pulling onto the street going up a slight up hill acted like it was laging power had to punch the gas to get the car moving,, i know it can be many things with out looking at it ,i had this ford taurus 21 years and had the transmission rebuilt this is the first time i had problems with it, i use the non ethonal gas and run fuel injected cleaner. i also change the oil every 3,000 miles no stored codes
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
Check your EGR flow sensor hoses/ hose. Not sure how many are on a 97. Was the problem there before you changed all those parts.
Did the tune up include the spark plugs? You did not mention them,
Check your EGR flow sensor hoses/ hose. Not sure how many are on a 97. Was the problem there before you changed all those parts.
yep i did put new motorcraft spark plugs and wires and new motorcraft coil,, i thought about egr valve or egr flow sencor , i also thinking about a bad tbs sencor,,,,,,, i put a used throttle body that could be bad i put a used tbs that might be bad,, ,, i replaced the EGR flow sensor hoses one egr and the other goes fuel injector valve,, defently a hestation in the throttle body at low idle,,when i drive the car i can feel the hesitation in the throttle body
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
Perhaps there is something wrong with a temperature sensor. You could check with a scanner what the PCM thinks the temperatures are (IAT = intake, ECT = coolant).+,
i will have to check that , , when the motor is cold before warmed up driving the car all i can feel slight hesitation in the throttle when taking off in low speed and theres a slight miss and stumble in the thottle body,, when the theromastat opens or the motor is completely warmed up you can really feel the miss driving the car when its idling at a stop light i can feel the miss after taking off down the road it has power and no laging
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Perhaps there is something wrong with a temperature sensor. You could check with a scanner what the PCM thinks the temperatures are (IAT = intake, ECT = coolant).
ECT (coolant temperature Could be the PCM gets a wrong signal from the sensor and thinks the engine is at operating temperature while in fact it is cold
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
i dont think 97 mercury has one of those i replaced the fuel pump,, 3 months ago i had 2 lean codes po171 and po174 i eraced the codes and it never came back on since ,,,,, ,, still hesitation in the throttle body when low idle even after i relaced with a used throttle body dong the same thing,, the car is hard starting when cold but fires right up when warm has a lot power when driving the car on the hiway
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Hey is it possible I'm having some issues with mine it's about the exact same year and mileage last February and it pours water out between the transmission and the engine which my understanding what I have read and the bull club it is a soft plug freeze plug whatever you'd like to call it in between the two I have yet to rip that apart that was last February but she was bogging down and acting weird and I was a lot colder but kind of like you're saying and I don't know if I destroyed some of the inside because it was not nice that broke free I think it sucked that inspection plug whatever you want to call it in and actually right now the other issue I'm having is no spark it is not the coil pack I had replaced that with a used one and had checked it any information would be greatly appreciated so I didn't mean to be disrespectful budding in or anything but I'm just so many different things and Geneva Cleveland Ohio if you will it's just a dog on hot out here and you know it's not raining in about snow and I thought I'd just throw it out there for you and I do have some things I would greatly appreciate some input on I've got to get the car so it's undercover so they don't get it everything doesn't get washed away greatly appreciated thank you so much this is an incredible group of people please keep me posted peace love and happiness smiles of smiles no worries never worth the stress just like being aggravated or hating something it's wasted energy giggles and make everybody think you're crazy cuz you're smiling when it's like what you believe your engine in your laughing yeah well I ain't thrilled but I'd rather be laughing and kind of smiling and then I'll be in aggravated just bad karma bad vibes thank you all y'all have great vibes I'm just too long-winded and a little bit Goofy
wow i read your thread wow i hope you get your car fixed ,, i found out one thing i replaced the plastic cover the 2 side tabs were broken off possably letting air in ,,,,bought the cover from a JY it covers up the airfilter and the the between plastic hose that attaches to the throttle also the mas air flow sensor srews on it ,, after i did that i think helped my hesitaion ,, but still having hard starting when the motor is cold even if its 70 degrees out side, after the cars warms up it starts all the time fine,, i saw on you tube how to check the fuel injectors i turn the ignition on and of twice then the motor cranked over twice and started right up no hesitation, acting like mabe the fuel is not holding pressure on the line or bleeding down ,,, also i will check the egr valve hoses once i find where it is ,,,,,,,,,, , the idle when cold still a little higher because i can feel the vibration and have to make sure that i hold the break pedal at a stop light other wise it will creap forward ,,,, after the car warms up i still can feel the miss in the motor but there are other posabilty a coolant senor , bad egr valve fuel presure regulator ,,,,,acts like a little vacumm leak i did put a used throttle body from thee JY i cleaned that up and installed it mabe the used throttle body might be bad ,, theres no check engine lights on, if i cant figure it out i might have to smoke test the motor,, iam also running clear gas and last time i bought that gas at the gas station ,, the gas pump was not working correctly and the gas pump would stop pumping gas meaning there was air in the gas line at the pump i cold have gotton bad gas,, so now iam going run the car out of gas buy shell V power gas and fuel injector cleanor see if it helps my car,,
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 · (Edited)
vacuum leak?
i am thinking a vacumm leak, i did put in a new u shaped hose and pcv valve,,, after fixing my air cleaner part i dont have the hesitation in my throttle any more at low speed ,, but still hard starting when motor is cold,, and the idle feels a liitle higher when engine is cold and i can feel the vibration in the steering wheel at idling at a stop light it feels like a vacumm leak , i am thinking mabe idle control valve even though its a new motorcraft valve ,, i did put a used throttle body mabe its bad and i also put a new mass air flow sensor from autozone dont know how good those are, i put new motorcraft spark plugs wires and coil,,,, guess i might have to take it to my friends shop more money,, i also plulled the hose off the fuel injection presure regularlator did not smell any gas and let the car run with the hose off started car and let it run for 2 minutes did not see any fuel coming out of it
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
vacuum leak?
Jiyu i have the dohc motor i replaced both upper and lower manifold gaskets and throttle body and fuel pump and fuel filter and pcv valve and still has the hestitation when barley giving it gas then the car smooths out as i drive the car and once the car is warmed up it starts all the time and i tryed fuel injector cleaner twice my car runs smooth then miss in the motor comes back ,, some times when i start my car first in the morning it start right up and some times when hitting the key its hard starting or hesitating to start ,, and in one time in the morning it cranked over 4 times finally fired up but i could smell gas fumes like i flooded the motor ,, i leaning towards the fuel injectors because my car has 130,000 miles on my car,, i kept spraying the motor trying to find any vacumm leaks cant find any ,,
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 · (Edited)
Usually, hesitation when giving throttle, or hard starting when cold, means the engine is getting excessive air or not enough fuel (running lean).
However, "vibration at steering wheel' indicates a serious misfire. Might be best to start with the basics and do a compression test. Or, if you have scan tool that can perform a relative compression test (I think that's what it's called), that'll tell you if you've got a dead cylinder.
When you've got a weird problem it's always best to start with the basics.
Check your fuel pressure, also.
If one of the cylinder is misfiring, try switching injectors with another cylinder - if the misfire moves, you gotta bad injector. If the misfire stays on that cylinder, it's something else (burned valve, etc.)
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
iam taking my car to the shop i owned for 21 years i dont want to give up on it yet,,,,,,i want to try to figure out the problem if i cant solve the problem , i have spent a lot of time and money on this problem i will have to look for a differnt car ,, i heard one problem some peaple are having the oil seperator hose leaking causing a vacumm leak ,, the hose goes to the pcv on the dohc motor cost way to much to fix iam praying god its not the problem ,, also i did take the car to auto zone i scanned my car some stored code said po1504 some over circut problem but i did pull the power plug off when the car was running to check the IAC the stored code might have caused that ,,,,, i did put a new mortor craft IAC,,,,, i dont have a check engine light on and when i did i eraced the codes po1074 and po1071
,,
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
I assume you mean codes P0171 and P0174? If so, 95% chance you have a vacuum leak that effects both banks. Split PCV hose would be a good possibility.
yep i did fix the pcv and new u shapped hose put on a used throttle body because the throttle body shaft was leaking air,, my mechanic told me he did and i reset the pcm and it never came back on and i eraced all the stored codes about 4 months later i drove the car to auto zone and there was a stored code p1504 , my car still has a misfire at idle gets worse when the car is warmed up and has the hesitation in the throttle body its doing the same hesitation in the throttle body even after changing out the throttle old body and at idle i can feel the miss at idle as soon as i give the car a little more gas while driving the car the miss goes away ,, mines the dohc i did both upper and lower gaskets , new fuel pump,, motorcraft spark plugs ,, wires and coil,,,,motorcraft iac,,,,,i think iam going to have to take it to shop i dont want to get rid of this car yet i spent so much time and money on the car
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
Usually, hesitation when giving throttle, or hard starting when cold, means the engine is getting excessive air or not enough fuel (running lean).
However, "vibration at steering wheel' indicates a serious misfire. Might be best to start with the basics and do a compression test. Or, if you have scan tool that can perform a relative compression test (I think that's what it's called), that'll tell you if you've got a dead cylinder.
When you've got a weird problem it's always best to start with the basics.
Check your fuel pressure, also.
If one of the cylinder is misfiring, try switching injectors with another cylinder - if the misfire moves, you gotta bad injector. If the misfire stays on that cylinder, it's something else (burned valve, etc.)
my car when its a cold start it had a high idle , i had the car in the shop and they pulled the battery cable and i think the iac had to relearn,,, when starting the car the idle was high at a stop light and feel the car vibration after driving the car the idle came down but driving the car at a stop light i can still feel the miss , i drove the car to a gym was in there 1 hour and the motor was cold i started the car and drove the car at idle i cant feel the miss it was a smooth idle they as the car warmed up i could feel the miss again , the miss fire gets worse when the car is warmed up and the temp gauge starts going up well iam going to have to take it to a shop
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 · (Edited)
Are you losing any antifreeze? May sound like a head gasket leak that gets worse as engine heats up. I have never had an IAC that needed to relearn just cheap aftermarket ones that never work right.
no iam not loosing anifreez heater works good ,, i bought a new motorcraft iac from the ford dealer last year,, i checked the motor oil its still good new water pump and radiator,,,,,,,, the car is not smoking ,,,,,,,,,water bottle same level,,,,,its not leaking any water or i dont smell any anifreesz any on the motor ,,,,, i did replace the fuel pump,,, it only hard starts when i start it first in the morning,after i drive it starts every time,,,,one morning the motor cranked over 4 times and i could smell gas acted like the car was flooded,,,when i drive after the car is warmed all the way and iam at a stop light it has a uneven idle somes i have to put in nuteral to me it acts like the cars idle is lower sometimes,, i did try injection cleaner it helps a little bit ,, my friend was telling me possably mabe injectors,, what iam really hope its not ,,is the hose going from the pcv valve under the manifold at the oil seperator
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
Usually, hesitation when giving throttle, or hard starting when cold, means the engine is getting excessive air or not enough fuel (running lean).
However, "vibration at steering wheel' indicates a serious misfire. Might be best to start with the basics and do a compression test. Or, if you have scan tool that can perform a relative compression test (I think that's what it's called), that'll tell you if you've got a dead cylinder.
When you've got a weird problem it's always best to start with the basics.
Check your fuel pressure, also.
If one of the cylinder is misfiring, try switching injectors with another cylinder - if the misfire moves, you gotta bad injector. If the misfire stays on that cylinder, it's something else (burned valve, etc.)
i have a question , i put a new IAC on my car and the hesitation got better ,, now what i noticed is when i put the new iac on it was like 62 degrees outside the car didnt run that bad after the car warmed up but the next day it was 49 degrees the car idled higher when cold and when cold or warmed up i can it ran worse the idle was not smooth but the car still has power , just having the cold weather made it run worse
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
Have you checked for pending codes?

What are the long term fuel trims on both banks at hot idle and with the engine under load, such as driving at 50 MPH?

I still think you have a small, but still significant vacuum leak. Possibly intake gaskets.
i had both upper and lower gaskets replaced last month,,,,, i just had my oil changed at a shop today the car was warmed up it didnt idle that bad at a stop light ,, i did have a hesitaion in the throttle body before and i just put a new IAC 2 days ago after that its not having the hesitaion in the throttle body at idle when i start to drive the car,and the car is starting better when the motor is cold ,,,,,, but when colder outside it still has the high idle as before when motor is cold and i can feel the vibration like at a stop light ,, before i had motor smoke tested my shop told me the throttle bodys shaft was leaking air so went to the junk yard got a differnt throttle body i cleaned the throttle body before putting on car,,,,and it also came with throttle body sensor on it ,,,,,the car at the JY had 150,000 miles on it my car only has 132,000 miles ,, possability that the throttle body is no good or the throttle body sencor ,, i might have to go back to the shop to have it smoke tested one more time,, and i took the car for a drive on the hiway at 55 miles per hour it drove fine
 

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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
i had both upper and lower gaskets replaced last month,,,,, i just had my oil changed at a shop today the car was warmed up it didnt idle that bad at a stop light ,, i did have a hesitaion in the throttle body before and i just put a new IAC 2 days ago after that its not having the hesitaion in the throttle body at idle when i start to drive the car,and the car is starting better when the motor is cold ,,,,,, but when colder outside it still has the high idle as before when motor is cold and i can feel the vibration like at a stop light ,, before i had motor smoke tested my shop told me the throttle bodys shaft was leaking air so went to the junk yard got a differnt throttle body i cleaned the throttle body before putting on car,,,,and it also came with throttle body sensor on it ,,,,,the car at the JY had 150,000 miles on it my car only has 132,000 miles ,, possability that the throttle body is no good or the throttle body sencor ,, i might have to go back to the shop to have it smoke tested one more time,, and i took the car for a drive on the hiway at 55 miles per hour it drove fine
Just because you fixed the vac leak in the PCV hose doesnt mean you dont have another vac leak. LTFTs at idle and with engine under load will tell if you have another vac leak.

Intake gaskets can slip out of place during installation if done by someone who isnt being careful.

Was the PCV valve a Motorcraft part or no name junk from the parts store? Use only the Motorcraft PCV. Aftermarket ones can and often will cause issues.
i used a new motorcraft pcv valve from the ford dealer ,, thats true gaskets can slip ,, thats the reason i want the motor smoke tested to see pin point where the vacmm leak is ,, i just praying its not oil seperator hose below the manifold ,, the head has to come off , if thats the problem i cant afford to fix that problem,, thats wierd the car runs worse when its cold outside
 

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Discussion Starter · #37 ·
Have you checked the ECT PID to see if the temperture the ECT is reporting to the PCM is reasonable? By that I mean after a long cooldown does the ECT report close to ambient temp? With engine fully warmed up does the ECT report around 200 to 210 F?
i also was thinking about the ECT , i dont know temp but the temp gauge does work ,, i will have have that checked too
 

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Discussion Starter · #39 · (Edited)
one more thing the cooling fans come on when the defroster or the ac is onone more thing the cooling fans come on when the defroster or the ac is on
Temp gauge uses a seperate sender for 2003 and earlier Taurus / Sable. 2004+ use the ECT for both the PCM and the temp gauge. Since yours is a 97, ECT could be way out of range but temp gauge could work normally.

Had the opposite issue several years ago with my 95 Vulcan. Ran perfectly, but temp gauge (seperate sender) pinned itself on HOT after the car ran for a minute or so. New gauge sender fixed the issue.
,, today i drove the car on eronds i put the non ethonal gas in my car which i my town its now 5 dollars a gallon and to the store and driving back to my place the car was warmed up and it wasnt running that bad at idle at a stop light and it was cold outside the windsheild was fogging up and i turned on my defroster and after my windshield was clear then after i turned off the defroster the car started to run ruff at idle at a stoplight again ,,,again i have no clue why does this ,, my temp gauge is working on my 97 sable so there is 2 temp senders mabe its causing the problem ,, i dont think its a bad injector would do this ,, i did put a new fuel pump in it also could be the reason when its cold outside that when i first start the car in the morning it has a higher idle and i can feel the misfire, and the idle does drop down when the car is warming up,,, i did put a new IAC on the motor it helped alittle ,, so how does a person test the temp sencor i dont have any check engine light on,, might have to take it back to my friends shop and the 2 engine fans are turning on when the ac and defrost is on................................... i drove my car five miles my car was warmed up the temp gauge was a little above middle and the temp was in 60s the temp gauge moved up a little when driving the car then i turned the heater on then the temp dropped down where it was before and does this once in a while when driving around town it was in the 50s outside
 
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