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Discussion Starter #1
This is a continuation from this thread: http://www.taurusclub.com/archive/index.ph...opic=7061&st=25

First off, I need Bosch #13117 for my 96 taurus LX(duratec), right?

Right now I can only see the sensor on the front bank. From my view, the wires look all nice and clean. Is that normal? After reading this thread: http://www.taurusclub.com/archive/index.php?showtopic=10235 is it worth paying a mechanic to do this?

I figured with me getting 18mpg no matter how I drive, even with 80% highway driving, and with 7.5 years, 71k miles of age, I might as well replace these little [email protected]#@!es
 
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Originally posted by talshiar@Dec 8 2003, 02:19 PM
You are going to replace mine for me while you are at it right?
Sure, I'll do your radio and speakers while I'm at it
 

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Yep, 13117 is the part number I have found online and the part number of the Bosch I stuck in my engine. Still working fine


From what I saw was that the wires on the front O2 sensor were quite clean, although I attribute this to being at least semi-exposed to the elements. Rain and wind blow there at quite a hefty chop, so I'm willing to bet that would cause them to stay clean..

Of course, there is the chance they were changed at some point. It's a pretty routine maintainence item (bar that it's a bit more expensive that others.)

Also,

QUOTE
I figured with me getting 18mpg no matter how I drive, even with 80% highway driving, and with 7.5 years, 71k miles of age, I might as well replace these little [email protected]#@!es[/b]
I have routinely got 18 mpg with my duratec, with an absolute minimum at 13 (I believe this was an error on my part, or my parents playing with the tripometer) and a greatest of 22 (city driving, nonetheless). I fear to say that the original Duratecs were unrefined; add to it that your engine has gone through so much, and I'm willing to bet that 18mpg is pretty much the only gas mileage you'll get for a long while


Of course, anyone with a well-running 96' Duratec who enjoys 20+mpg on the highway is welcome to tell me wrong. My experience, though, has been that 18-20 is my mileage, highway or not.


Also, just a final question: do you notice any wierd performance problems with your engine? Do you bog on acceleration when the engine is hot, calling for "florage" of the pedal for the car to even move? *this is just a question*


Oh, and finally, replacement of the front O2 sensor was a chore; the angle was wierd, and you had to get your body in pretty close to some hot engine components (if you elect to do it when engine is hot.) I didn't do the rear o2 sensor, although I dare say it is nearly impossible for someone not willing to get down, dirty, and hurt for their car. If you think that this may be the cause of your mileage woahs, getting them replaced may be worth the labour costs, but beware that they may not have any impact at all.
 

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Yes, you might as well change them since you have new ones already in hand. It's not that difficult to change. If you don't have an O2 wrench adapter, borrow one from Autozone or your local auto store. You'd need to change them in about 20k to 30k miles anyway.

You may have used poor gas in the early days of owning your car or your and it contributed to your premature failure of your O2's. Driving your car hard and cold weather will contribute as well. You can probably tell that they are going bad by comparing the last 2 smog checks and you'll see the difference and understand why your gas mileage went down.
 
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Well, the engine is rebuilt so it should perform like new


Here's my smog results from feburary of this year. A week after my smog test, my emissions warranty expired, then 3 days later my rebuilt engine arrived at the dealer


Since the smog test the engine(for drinking massive amounts of oil) and transmission(bad 1-2 shift) have been replaced, so I have no idea how the car currently performs. I can tell you with 97%+ highway driving, I cannot get past ~21mpg.

Oh yeah, I had my throttle body and egr ports next to the throttle body cleaned during the summer. But look at the HC's, that's barely passing
I had my mechanic hook his scanner to my car, the o2's are in sync with eachother in terms of cycling.
 

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So, it looks like you're running quite rich. No CEL's for the cats, right? Running rich would surely cause "bad" gas mileage, and the O2 sensors would surely be a cause of that.

Of course, it may also be something else; MAF and whatnot comes to mind, but I seem to remember you doing a bit of work or had the MAF cleaned. Replacing the O2 sensors would be a fine first step, though, in trying to see whats causing your "bad" gas mileage



My next step about my lovable Duratec is to see the dealer about a computer reflash. I am SO sick of this engine loosing all get up at high temps. I mean, I understand deducting some horsepower when it gets warm, and I understand loosing some horsepower when the AC is on, but to loose some throttle response when the engines warm and ALL throttle response when the AC is on (and the engines warm) just seems wrong.
 
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Nope, no cel's. I do have a knock sensor code stored(with cel off), but that will be addressed at the dealer in a couple of weeks.

I swapped in a maf from another 96 duratec - funny thing, that maf may have twice as many miles as "my" maf has. Only difference, I am hitting high 18's (almost made it to 19
).

Let me know how your reflash goes. I talked to Levi (tcca username: theman21) at the last meet w/duratecperformance and he has had a reflash. Ask him, he knows more about it. I might try to get ford to do it under my warranty, we'll see what happens in a couple of weeks
 

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Originally posted by XLSuruaT+Dec 8 2003, 03:29 PM-->QUOTE (XLSuruaT @ Dec 8 2003, 03:29 PM)
<!--QuoteBegin-talshiar
@Dec 8 2003, 02:19 PM
You are going to replace mine for me while you are at it right?
Sure, I'll do your radio and speakers while I'm at it
[/b]
The radio and front speakers are in. Which makes me want to put new back ones in.
 

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Like I said before, only change the ones before the Cat, those are the ones that control mixture, A/F ratio, fuel econ, ETC....

The ones after the cat only check to see if the damn thing is working and won't do s*** for performance of fuel economy.

Save the money and just do the Pre-Cat ones.
 
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Discussion Starter #11
Yeah, thats what I plan on doing. Thanks for confirming it
 

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I wonder why all that stuff measured is lower at the higher speed and engine rpm? Wouldn't it be higher because the the engine is putting out more cfm? That looks like a drastic difference between 15 and 25mph.

Did you take the emission test when the car was relatively cool or after a lot of driving when the car had time to thoroughly heat up?
 

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QUOTE
I wonder why all that stuff measured is lower at the higher speed and engine rpm? Wouldn't it be higher because the the engine is putting out more cfm? That looks like a drastic difference between 15 and 25mph.

Did you take the emission test when the car was relatively cool or after a lot of driving when the car had time to thoroughly heat up?[/b]
Maybe it's because of the EGR.
 
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Yeah, my guess would be the egr.

I got an email from oxygensensor.net and they told me they dont have any bosch in stock. He offered to give me some ngk's which he claims are the oe manufacture for ford.

Any suggestions?
 

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Originally posted by DeJaVu@Dec 9 2003, 08:43 AM
QUOTE
I wonder why all that stuff measured is lower at the higher speed and engine rpm? Wouldn't it be higher because the the engine is putting out more cfm? That looks like a drastic difference between 15 and 25mph.

Did you take the emission test when the car was relatively cool or after a lot of driving when the car had time to thoroughly heat up?
Maybe it's because of the EGR. [/b][/quote]
I've always heard that the EGR's purpose was to reduce the NO emissions, and as you can see from the chart, his are well below average.
 
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Discussion Starter #16
About the numbers being higher at lower speed, i honestly dont know. Could be that the engine just runs better around 2000 rpm rather than 1500. Maybe next time looking at the %load may show why that occurs. Yeah, the car was definitly warmed up.
 

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Originally posted by XLSuruaT@Dec 10 2003, 10:44 AM
Yeah, my guess would be the egr.

I got an email from oxygensensor.net and they told me they dont have any bosch in stock. He offered to give me some ngk's which he claims are the oe manufacture for ford.

Any suggestions?
I don't know if the Bosch work any better, but they are definitely a physically sturdier unit than OE. When I installed a new front stabilizer I whacked one of the downstream sensors, broke it and got a MIL. I got my Bosch replacement from oxygensensor.net. He shipped very quickly. Are they going to be out of stock too long to wait?
 
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Discussion Starter #18
I emailed him back asking when the bosch's are comming in. I'd rather have a sturdier unit, so I guess I may wait it out, or get a refund and pay an extra $20 per sensor at autozone.
 

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18 mpg definitely sucks. On the highway I can average 27-28 (did 32 once!) and in the city I get about hmm...18 sounds right.
 
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