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Discussion Starter #1
I was checking out GingerMan's website for sh*ts and giggles, and came across this picture of their plan for track expansion that's evidently gonna be done in time for the new season in Spring 2010. Turn #10 is getting much longer and tighter, while turn #11 is being revamped too, according to the diagram. This could get very interesting...

[attachment=30779:GingerMa...ut__2010.jpg]
 

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Interesting.

Basically, it makes the 10-11 area the main straight, as the next straight to turn 1 has the "hump" near the end and limits top speeds.

I don't see it as a benefit for our cars, as a longer straight with more potential speed just kills your brakes sooner. I rarely go for top speed on a long straight for that reason.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
That's true, but turn 11 appears to be transforming from a 90 degree hard right into a more gently curving sweeper. It won't take quite as much braking to round that curve compared to the way it was laid out up through this year. Turn 11 leaving Phoenix Flat was a b*tch to take anywhere north of 40 mph, so a sweeper that's more like running through 7-8-9 would be welcome in my book. I guess it'll take actually driving the new layout of that course to see if it feels any better (for Tauruses) than the old layout. But I do think that back straight could be a lot more fun with more length to it. Ron, can I assume you've driven GingerMan in it's current configuration?
 

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QUOTE (Ron Porter @ Sep 19 2009, 11:11 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=754438
Interesting.

Basically, it makes the 10-11 area the main straight, as the next straight to turn 1 has the "hump" near the end and limits top speeds.

I don't see it as a benefit for our cars, as a longer straight with more potential speed just kills your brakes sooner. I rarely go for top speed on a long straight for that reason.[/b]
That's why they make brake upgrades, sir. :)

FWIW, try as I might, I wasn't able to kill my brakes at NHMS in July, despite 100MPH speeds in the straight, and 80MPH coming into the bowl.
 

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im excited for the addition. i will actually run next year in the sho. its getting all the necessary upgrades.
 

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QUOTE (Brian_05_SEL @ Sep 20 2009, 12:22 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=754449
That's true, but turn 11 appears to be transforming from a 90 degree hard right into a more gently curving sweeper. It won't take quite as much braking to round that curve compared to the way it was laid out up through this year. Turn 11 leaving Phoenix Flat was a b*tch to take anywhere north of 40 mph, so a sweeper that's more like running through 7-8-9 would be welcome in my book. I guess it'll take actually driving the new layout of that course to see if it feels any better (for Tauruses) than the old layout. But I do think that back straight could be a lot more fun with more length to it. Ron, can I assume you've driven GingerMan in it's current configuration?[/b]
Yeah, probably 8-10 times or so. First with the '94 MTX years back, but all with the LGT since then. I like that transition from 9 through 10. Only spun out there once!
 

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QUOTE (Racer X @ Sep 20 2009, 11:44 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=754521
QUOTE (Ron Porter @ Sep 19 2009, 11:11 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=754438
Interesting.

Basically, it makes the 10-11 area the main straight, as the next straight to turn 1 has the "hump" near the end and limits top speeds.

I don't see it as a benefit for our cars, as a longer straight with more potential speed just kills your brakes sooner. I rarely go for top speed on a long straight for that reason.[/b]
That's why they make brake upgrades, sir. :)

FWIW, try as I might, I wasn't able to kill my brakes at NHMS in July, despite 100MPH speeds in the straight, and 80MPH coming into the bowl.
[/b][/quote]

I'm already running an agressive street/track pad ( AX6, former Panther Plus), and I don't want to go to track pads just to get another 10-15 mph in the straights. Other than sloppy track braking, it's those straights that build the heat. You will cut more off your lap times by having good brakes through the fun part of the track.

NHMS was a nice track, and very easy on brakes (as far as tracks go). Really only one straight that could cause an issue.
 

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I don't recall what pads you ran at NHMS (the same AX6's) but I remember watching you come into the paddock, pads a smokin' after your sessions! :lol:

I'm running the EBC yellowstuff on 13" Cobras, and after they heated up I wasn't able to get them to fade, even when I was sloppy with the brakes in the twisty bits my first session.

They definitely got hot too... melted yet another center cap on my MSR 190's. :(
 

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QUOTE (Racer X @ Sep 30 2009, 12:44 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=756589
I don't recall what pads you ran at NHMS (the same AX6's) but I remember watching you come into the paddock, pads a smokin' after your sessions! :lol:

I'm running the EBC yellowstuff on 13" Cobras, and after they heated up I wasn't able to get them to fade, even when I was sloppy with the brakes in the twisty bits my first session.

They definitely got hot too... melted yet another center cap on my MSR 190's. :([/b]

?????

Pads smoking?? No way.

This track was the EASIEST track for brakes. I had ZERO issues with brakes.

I can't say that you saw a Subaru smoking the brakes, but it wasn't me!! This track was EASY on brakes. I lost NO braking for any session.

EBC Yellowstuff are not serious track pads. If you didn't fry them, you weren't trying hard enough.
 

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That's it, where's Fonz?

We BOTH were commenting on the smoke coming off of your pads man! I'm sure they were doing just fine performance-wise, but they were definitely smoking.

Unless that was the other LGT Wagon on the track that day... :p
 

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QUOTE (Racer X @ Sep 30 2009, 07:36 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=756817
That's it, where's Fonz?

We BOTH were commenting on the smoke coming off of your pads man! I'm sure they were doing just fine performance-wise, but they were definitely smoking.

Unless that was the other LGT Wagon on the track that day... :p[/b]
????? Whatever......

I have smoked the same pads at Grattan in '07 and at Pacific Raceway in '08, but NHMS was a walk in the park for brakes.
And even then, I lost no braking power, the pedal just got softer near then end of the session. Same as it does at Gingerman.

If you say you saw smoke off my pads at NHMS, you might want to get your eyes checked. My brake pedal didn't even get soft on that track. That was a very easy track for brakes.
 

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QUOTE (Ron Porter @ Sep 30 2009, 09:07 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=756830
QUOTE (Racer X @ Sep 30 2009, 07:36 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=756817
That's it, where's Fonz?

We BOTH were commenting on the smoke coming off of your pads man! I'm sure they were doing just fine performance-wise, but they were definitely smoking.

Unless that was the other LGT Wagon on the track that day... :p[/b]
????? Whatever......

I have smoked the same pads at Grattan in '07 and at Pacific Raceway in '08, but NHMS was a walk in the park for brakes.
And even then, I lost no braking power, the pedal just got softer near then end of the session. Same as it does at Gingerman.

If you say you saw smoke off my pads at NHMS, you might want to get your eyes checked. My brake pedal didn't even get soft on that track. That was a very easy track for brakes.
[/b][/quote]
Whoa, easy cowboy! No need to get up in arms! No one's looking for a fight.

The EBC Yellowstuff's, while not a dedicated track pad, are more than capable on the track, and more importantly off the track. That's why I choose them again.

My eyes are just fine, your brakes clearly held up fine, so no harm no foul. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Isn't it possible for pads to give off some smoke during heavy use without a loss of braking performance? IMO, GingerMan was a harder course on my tires than on the brakes, mostly because I wasn't giving it very much of the left pedal out there; just taking each of the corners as fast as possible without breaking the tires loose. Although I did do that a few times. Probably part of the reason that my Conti's were all toast at 49k. :burnout:
 

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QUOTE (Brian_05_SEL @ Oct 1 2009, 12:47 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=756873
Isn't it possible for pads to give off some smoke during heavy use without a loss of braking performance? IMO, GingerMan was a harder course on my tires than on the brakes, mostly because I wasn't giving it very much of the left pedal out there; just taking each of the corners as fast as possible without breaking the tires loose. Although I did do that a few times. Probably part of the reason that my Conti's were all toast at 49k. :burnout:[/b]
Oh, sure. Smoke is no indication of braking performance. Try PFCM pads some time. They smoke like crazy, but still work. Stock Ford pads won't smoke, but you could have the pedal to the floor as you plow off track.

Different pads work for different folks, but as you have more power and/or better tires, your brake requirements go up.

Or, if you drive your brakes as you do on the street, and spend too much time on the pedal. Remember hard and short, not soft and long.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I remember getting a mass e-mail that Jason sent out last month asking for feedback re: holding a 2010 GingerMan track event. Everybody should respond "hell, yes". Let's try and get a better turnout then there was at last spring's event; just a dozen or so people, and only three were actually from TCCA. :glare: That's just :poop: considering that it was the TCCA staff who arranged it all.



:usa: Vote yes on ROTB 2K10!
 

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<span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS">Oh hell yeah, I'd do that. I love to drive fast but am now obeying posted limits, so this could be major fun. (Just don't tell the people at my AARP driving class about me doing this ! ROFL) </span>
 

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Gingerman sounds like fun to me. I would love to try the IRS out there. I like the changes in the track configuration.
 
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