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Which is better the gen 3 duratec or gen 4 motor. I know they basically have the same ratings. From what I've read, the gen 4 seems to be the more powerful of the 2 motors. As I understand it, the gen 4 heads have large oval ports, and no secondaries. Where as the gen 3 heads have small primaries and medium sized secondaries, that open up at 3000 rpm (according to haynes manual). This would lead me to believe the gen 3 would have far more low end torque, and less high end horsepower. However, from the way everybody is talking about the gen 4's, they don't seem to be lacking in low end torque. Are they geared lower by any chance. Is there a piece of the puzzle that I'm not aware of. I just figured the low end torque would beat out the high end horsepower of a hefty taurus with stock differential gears in a race from a dead stop. Sure the high end horspower of the gen 4 would be better on the oval, no doubt.
 
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Originally posted by metalliman@Jul 4 2004, 09:11 PM
Which is better the gen 3 duratec or gen 4 motor.  I know they basically have the same ratings.  From what I've read, the gen 4 seems to be the more powerful of the 2 motors.  As I understand it, the gen 4 heads have large oval ports, and no secondaries.  Where as the gen 3 heads have small primaries and medium sized secondaries, that open up at 3000 rpm (according to haynes manual).  This would lead me to believe the gen 3 would have far more low end torque, and less high end horsepower.  However, from the way everybody is talking about the gen 4's, they don't seem to be lacking in low end torque.  Are they geared lower by any chance.  Is there a piece of the puzzle that I'm not aware of.  I just figured the low end torque would beat out the high end horsepower of a hefty taurus with stock differential gears in a race from a dead stop.  Sure the high end horspower of the gen 4 would be better on the oval, no doubt.
All I know is that my vulcan has more low end torque registering on the "butt dyno" than the Duratec in my mom's 04 Sable. However, once her car revs out it pulls amazingly hard once it gets above like 20 MPH. After that it pulls sort of weak between 40 and 50, but over 50 and the thing is an absolute rocket! B)
 
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Originally posted by SableSal@Jul 5 2004, 04:31 AM
The Gen3 Duratec of course!


Sal
For some reason I really like the Gen 3 Secondaries. I've always thought that was really cool. I wish the Gen 4 'tecs had something cool like that. B) :)
 

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Originally posted by jason8225+Jul 5 2004, 12:30 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (jason8225 @ Jul 5 2004, 12:30 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-metalliman@Jul 4 2004, 09:11 PM
 
\ but over 50 and the thing is an absolute rocket! B)[/b][/quote]
fast as a rocket?
ya thats funny

lol
serious joker
 
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Originally posted by yogi2+Jul 5 2004, 12:43 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (yogi2 @ Jul 5 2004, 12:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2004, 12:30 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-metalliman
@Jul 4 2004, 09:11 PM
 

\ but over 50 and the thing is an absolute rocket! B)
fast as a rocket?
ya thats funny

lol
serious joker [/b][/quote]
Yeah, I outran an airplane last night on the highway. :p

Seriously though, that thing is amazing after 50 MPH, I was very impressed. I never drove a car that felt so nice on the top end like that. I dare say it could be better than the Panther cars I've driven. :eek: :blink: But it's hard to compete with a smooth V8 and RWD. :notworthy:
 

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Originally posted by yogi2@Jul 5 2004, 12:06 PM
16.9
that shows it all
thats the time for his *vulcan* taurus.

Hes talkin about his moms duratec sable thats fast above 50. Read, comprehend, and then keep your [email protected]$$ comments to yourself.
 

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Venom's Duratec is pretty quick, from what I remember. I *think* it's a '99 with the true secondaries. Again, IIRC, he was only a few tenths behind some stock V8SHOs in the 1/4. My gut feeling is that they were underrated to make the 2000s seem like an improvement (on paper, of course).

I wouldn't be surprised if Brad's (TheSpyGuy) Duratec is near V8SHO performance levels. Search for "Baby SHO" to find the thread(s) on that project. Hopefully, we'll see how well it performs in the next few months.

So, I guess what I'm saying is that the late Gen 3 'tecs are a better design, and a better foundation for mods. :)
 
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Originally posted by SixFoFalcon@Jul 5 2004, 02:53 PM
Venom's Duratec is pretty quick, from what I remember. I *think* it's a '99 with the true secondaries. Again, IIRC, he was only a few tenths behind some stock V8SHOs in the 1/4. My gut feeling is that they were underrated to make the 2000s seem like an improvement (on paper, of course).

I wouldn't be surprised if Brad's (TheSpyGuy) Duratec is near V8SHO performance levels. Search for "Baby SHO" to find the thread(s) on that project. Hopefully, we'll see how well it performs in the next few months.

So, I guess what I'm saying is that the late Gen 3 'tecs are a better design, and a better foundation for mods. :)
You are correct, Venom (Eric's) Duratec is a 99 SE and AFAIK his best is a 15.2 in the 1/4 mile @ 93? MPH. I'm not 100% sure that this is all of it, but I think Eric's mods are Chip, UDP and exhaust. :)

I think Brad is hoping/planning for high (wishfully thinking mid) 14's. B)
 
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Originally posted by Taurussetypes+Jul 5 2004, 02:41 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Taurussetypes @ Jul 5 2004, 02:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-yogi2@Jul 5 2004, 12:06 PM
16.9
that shows it all
thats the time for his *vulcan* taurus.

Hes talkin about his moms duratec sable thats fast above 50. Read, comprehend, and then keep your [email protected]$$ comments to yourself. [/b][/quote]
:thanks:

:)
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Does anybody happen to have 0 to 60 times or 1/4 mile times of stock duratecs. Maybe someone has some dynos to show exact torque curves of both motors. I have a gen 3 myself, supposedly the 185 hp version, which I don't believe myself. I've purchased a cougar intake from a 2.5 duratec. As I understand it, this intake will bolt right on to my 3.0. I plan on doing a complete port and polish to match the lower intake. My plan is to use a dremel tool with a snake driver. I've got a bunch of 1.5" (38mm) grinding wheels which I'm going to use a diamond dresser to shape into progressively larger spheres (31mm, 31.5mm, 32mm.....) One at a time, I can run these through the ports taking out about .020" stock with each wheel. Following that, I'm going to use a finely gritted flex hone to smooth out the finish.

http://www.jlindustrial.com/catalog/produc...?id=FXH-32021H#

This will be a lot cheaper than extrude honing, especially considering I found a local tool distributor that will sell the wheels at a $1.00 a piece. I also plan on boring out the 3.0 throttle body and slotting or drilling the holes to bolt on to the 2.5 intake which I'm also going to bore out to match. Has anybody ever actually bolted on the 2.5 intake?
 

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Umm.. WELCOME first of all... you have some big plans... I like it! The only thing I know about is the TB boring mine is 62mm and I know the contour guys have done 63mm ones. If you can get an SVT intake from a 2.5 Duratec they are already extrude honed, so the only work will be on the secondaries. The taurus 3.0L TB is the same as the 2.5L SVT TB from what I have heard, BUT I believe this is Gen III only, which you have. I know the TB pulls from the bottom on the Gen IV's so it's different, thus making the Gen III better for what you are doing to it.
 

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Originally posted by jason8225+Jul 5 2004, 12:30 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (jason8225 @ Jul 5 2004, 12:30 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-metalliman@Jul 4 2004, 09:11 PM
Which is better the gen 3 duratec or gen 4 motor.  I know they basically have the same ratings.  From what I've read, the gen 4 seems to be the more powerful of the 2 motors.  As I understand it, the gen 4 heads have large oval ports, and no secondaries.  Where as the gen 3 heads have small primaries and medium sized secondaries, that open up at 3000 rpm (according to haynes manual).  This would lead me to believe the gen 3 would have far more low end torque, and less high end horsepower.  However, from the way everybody is talking about the gen 4's, they don't seem to be lacking in low end torque.  Are they geared lower by any chance.  Is there a piece of the puzzle that I'm not aware of.  I just figured the low end torque would beat out the high end horsepower of a hefty taurus with stock differential gears in a race from a dead stop.  Sure the high end horspower of the gen 4 would be better on the oval, no doubt.
All I know is that my vulcan has more low end torque registering on the "butt dyno" than the Duratec in my mom's 04 Sable. However, once her car revs out it pulls amazingly hard once it gets above like 20 MPH. After that it pulls sort of weak between 40 and 50, but over 50 and the thing is an absolute rocket! B) [/b][/quote]
Very true.... in 3rd it does well above 80 also, it can giddy up and go quite well :)
 

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Originally posted by Kermit@Jul 5 2004, 05:12 PM
Umm.. WELCOME first of all... you have some big plans... I like it! The only thing I know about is the TB boring mine is 62mm and I know the contour guys have done 63mm ones. If you can get an SVT intake from a 2.5 Duratec they are already extrude honed, so the only work will be on the secondaries. The taurus 3.0L TB is the same as the 2.5L SVT TB from what I have heard, BUT I believe this is Gen III only, which you have. I know the TB pulls from the bottom on the Gen IV's so it's different, thus making the Gen III better for what you are doing to it.
The upper intake manifold (UIM) of the SVT Contour is extrude honed, however it flows less cfm than the stock Taurus UIM. I'm not sure about the TB's being the same.

When I cleaned the UIM on my Taurus, I measured the sizes of the UIM and LIM ports. The LIM ports were almost 2mm larger on primaries and secondaries. I would like to bore the UIM out to match the LIM.

Baby SHO knows quite a bit about all three Duratec engines (Cotour 2.5L, '96-'99 Taurus 3.0L, '00- Taurus 3.0L)
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I'm quite aware that the 2.5 uim has quite smaller ports than are 3.0. The UIM I bought is a non SVT, so I know I'll have a lot of work ahead me. Hopefully, when I'm done, this UIM will flow as much or more as the 3.0, however the longer runner lengths, and the "Tuned Port" effect should hopefully produce far more torque on the bottom end. I'm not really expecting much more high end horsepower. 62 to 63mm on the TB, I think I'll start out at 63 mm. Did you notice any loss of low end torque after boring out your TB?
 

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I have looked at this project too, and personally I wouldn't worry about the TB (yet). The UIM and LIM seems to be the big constraint from the 2.5 Contour when using it on the 3.0, especially if it's not an SVT or ST200 manifold. One other thing to keep in mind is it's better to keep the short runners slightly rough. It seems to help the low end when it's only working off of the short runners. I think the only major thing you will have to worry about is moving the EGR (if you're going to use it).

I know I had more to add about this, but I can't think today. Too much vacation and now too much work.
 
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