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Wow, awesome!

(grumble grumble UAW should watch this... grumble grumble)
 

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why can't the uaw see what is happening to the big 3 and allow plants like that one to be built here in america.

i like union labor force but some times the union members can't see past their next paycheck.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
It seems that the UAW is under the impression that if they were gone, then the big 3 will go back to the days when there was children working long hours with cheap wages, unsafe conditions and the corporate ability to manipulate workers to its benefit. I have toured the factory in Moraine Ohio that builds the Trailblazer, Envoy etc. And those people literally told you that they love their job besides that, there were more safety precautions then you could imagine. Do you think that the big 3 would treat those who love the company more than anyone else like dirt? No is the answer.
 

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I would definitely have to agree that the UAW is basically going to incinerate the U.S. auto industry, especially after what happened last night. The Senate is going home for the holidays....the UAW refused to give into wage concessions...seems they think no job at all is better than a cut in wages. What was even more disgusting to me is that nobody thinks it's their fault and that the Senate will, and I quote a GM worker, "have the blood on their hands" if a bailout is not reached. Uh....hello? What about all the decades of bad management, bad cars, terrible union representation, etc, etc...??? If that's really the way they think...that everyone owes them...well...I'd love to use some strong language regarding what they can do with themselves.
 

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The UAW is not the only problem the US auto industry has. Wages are not the problem. And the auto companies are the ones who agreed to the union contracts.
 

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the unions are 1 reason why the big3 are in a bind.
[/b]
Management isn't unionized. Designers aren't unionized. Everyone that works in R&D isn't unionized... The problems are not all the UAW's. Just think about the cars the big 3 were making from 1999-now... Big huge gas guzzlers... They refused to build to smaller more fuel efficient cars, and the ones that they did were never given any attention (PROOF: G4 Taurus's 7 year production cycle)... When gas prices went through the roof, guess who was left holding the bag...

Chrysler is a real interesting case I think... Instead of building cars that appeal to everyone, they've been totally focused on these "dream machines" for 50 something retired golfers... Like the Charger, Challenger and 300C have "midlife crisis" written all over them... Remember when they built cars like the Intrepid, Neon and Concorde that appealed to much wider audiences? I know those 3 were all crap, but atleast they occupied a major segment of the market...

GM probably got into the SUV/truck pit deeper than all of them put together (Chrysler is only now jumping on the gas guzzling truck niche with it's Jeep/Dodge marquees turning out 1 SUV after another)... All they built during the 00's were trucks and they were obviously the hardest hit by the rise in gas prices because they are in the biggest hole...

Ford isn't perfect either... They focused too heavily on trucks too, remember the Excursion? They have also left bad tastes in the mouths of people for years for building cars that constantly needed repairs... I know we all love our Taurses and forgive them when something breaks, but come on, my G2 went through a head gasket, transmission, numerous other things and that was within the first 5 years only!

So to say it's all the fault of the UAW is such a farce... They have actually accepted some cuts and aren't as unflinching as some would like to think... The problem has been with the design and management of these companies... If they built GOOD cars that people wanted, it wouldn't matter how much they paid UAW workers...
 

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The UAW is not the only problem the US auto industry has. Wages are not the problem. And the auto companies are the ones who agreed to the union contracts.
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The auto makers shouldn't have agreed to the crazy union contracts.
 

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Just think about the cars the big 3 were making from 1999-now... Big huge gas guzzlers... They refused to build to smaller more fuel efficient cars, and the ones that they did were never given any attention (PROOF: G4 Taurus's 7 year production cycle)... When gas prices went through the roof, guess who was left holding the bag...
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Because those vehicles were profitable. If anything, blame consumers for that because the Big 3 were just following customer demand. Why the hell would they build smaller cars? They weren't profitable. The main point of being in business is to make money, not to bend over to activist environmental groups. Ford built the Excursion because, at the time, there was a market for it. But between the assault from the environmentalist wackos and the rising fuel prices, demand went away.

And yes, the wages DO matter. Is anyone disputing that the Big 3 pay more in wages than other makers? They don't just pull that money out of someone's ass. That money needs to come from somewhere and it's usually somewhere in the quality department. People love to bitch about how ****** American cars are yet refuse to acknowledge that maybe, just maybe, there really isn't a bunch of guys in Detroit deliberately trying to build the worst car they possibly can.

The auto makers shouldn't have agreed to the crazy union contracts.
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Then there'd be a strike.

Not good for your public image.
 

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Because those vehicles were profitable. If anything, blame consumers for that because the Big 3 were just following customer demand. Why the hell would they build smaller cars? They weren't profitable. The main point of being in business is to make money, not to bend over to activist environmental groups. Ford built the Excursion because, at the time, there was a market for it. But between the assault from the environmentalist wackos and the rising fuel prices, demand went away.
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Until gas prices went through the roof, small cars didn't sell all that well.

Isn't the F150 pickup still a strong seller? Even with the high gas prices?
 

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<div class='quotemain'>Just think about the cars the big 3 were making from 1999-now... Big huge gas guzzlers... They refused to build to smaller more fuel efficient cars, and the ones that they did were never given any attention (PROOF: G4 Taurus's 7 year production cycle)... When gas prices went through the roof, guess who was left holding the bag...
[/b]
Because those vehicles were profitable. If anything, blame consumers for that because the Big 3 were just following customer demand. Why the hell would they build smaller cars? They weren't profitable. The main point of being in business is to make money, not to bend over to activist environmental groups. Ford built the Excursion because, at the time, there was a market for it. But between the assault from the environmentalist wackos and the rising fuel prices, demand went away.

And yes, the wages DO matter. Is anyone disputing that the Big 3 pay more in wages than other makers? They don't just pull that money out of someone's ass. That money needs to come from somewhere and it's usually somewhere in the quality department. People love to bitch about how ****** American cars are yet refuse to acknowledge that maybe, just maybe, there really isn't a bunch of guys in Detroit deliberately trying to build the worst car they possibly can.

The auto makers shouldn't have agreed to the crazy union contracts.
[/b]
Then there'd be a strike.

Not good for your public image.
[/b][/quote]

Wages are near parity with the non union foreign manufactures in the south. In fact Nissan pays more per hour on some jobs ($30) than a UAW plant ($26) to keep the unions out. When the contract runs it's current length they will be near equal in 2 years.

Who produced that clip? What is their background?

Strikes are old news and not what the union wants, nor the company.
 

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<div class='quotemain'>Just think about the cars the big 3 were making from 1999-now... Big huge gas guzzlers... They refused to build to smaller more fuel efficient cars, and the ones that they did were never given any attention (PROOF: G4 Taurus's 7 year production cycle)... When gas prices went through the roof, guess who was left holding the bag...
[/b]
Because those vehicles were profitable. If anything, blame consumers for that because the Big 3 were just following customer demand. Why the hell would they build smaller cars? They weren't profitable. The main point of being in business is to make money, not to bend over to activist environmental groups. Ford built the Excursion because, at the time, there was a market for it. But between the assault from the environmentalist wackos and the rising fuel prices, demand went away.

And yes, the wages DO matter. Is anyone disputing that the Big 3 pay more in wages than other makers? They don't just pull that money out of someone's ass. That money needs to come from somewhere and it's usually somewhere in the quality department. People love to bitch about how ****** American cars are yet refuse to acknowledge that maybe, just maybe, there really isn't a bunch of guys in Detroit deliberately trying to build the worst car they possibly can.

The auto makers shouldn't have agreed to the crazy union contracts.
[/b]
Then there'd be a strike.

Not good for your public image.
[/b][/quote]

First of all, the Japanese car makers concentrated on smaller cars since their inception and they never went out of business... They are doing a helluva lot better than the domestic brands. People wanted SUVs so what did the big 3 do? They flooded the market with SUV after SUV and eventually the demand dried up... Trucks are the segment that the big 3 held exclusivity on so obviously when the SUV craze hit they had the most to gain... The Japanese were later to the game but they focused on having 1 really great model in each segment while they continued to develop and expand their car lineup... GM had 10 different SUVs in each segment and tied themselves to the continued success of SUVs and totally turned their backs on cars... Like did it really take a rocket scientist to foresee that post 9-11 there was probably going to be alot of instability in the gas market and that a wise car company wouldn't hedge their bets on trucks that get 10 mpgs? Like even all the hybrid tech in Fords and GMs right now is just the last generation of Prius technology... It was essentially a bet that the big 3 lost and now they are a decade (or more) behind the Japanese when it comes to small car development and hybrids... Why do you think Ford is scrambling to get all of their European models over here?

If you're argument is just "well that's what people wanted so that's what they built" then I'd change my opinion from "bail them out" to "well that's what happens with capitalism: boom and bust"... Like most companies that succeed and last for a long time believe in a principle of "diversification" not "put all your resources into one fad and hope it lasts"... Hmm that's the same reason all these banks need to be bailed out too...

And if the big 3 could afford to pay all of the benefits and higher wages, then what is wrong with that? People think that the UAW got all these perks within the last 5 years... Well guess what, they didn't! They were fought for for decades especially in the post WW2 period right on through the 1970s when the big 3 WERE profitable... Unfortunately, eventually something called "competition" developed and they couldn't remain competitive which is why now the legacy costs are killing them... If the big 3 were making as much money as they were back then, because you know, they kept building quality, innovative products and stayed competitive, no one would care if the UAW was getting that kind of pay... Like all the UAW does is build the cars they are told to build... They have no other input whatsoever, so to peg all of their problems on them is a real fallacy...

Oh and also, WTF do you mean by "whako environmentalists"? The biggest thing to turn people off oil is $5 a gallon gas.
 
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