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Discussion Starter #1
Hi to Everyone,

My name is Popeye. I have two Sable wagons I've had for a while ('98 and '99, both 3.0L Duratec/AX4N ) and I love them both. Recently I bought a 1998 Taurus with only 118000 Km on it but it has a blown forward clutch in the transmission. This car has the 3.0 L Vulcan engine and an AX4S transmission. I happen to have a very low mileage AX4N which will bolt to the Vulcan engine. It was sent to me in error when I ordered a used transmission for my '99 Duratec. The parts place sent me the correct tranny and told me I could keep this one.

This is where it gets interesting. I want to install the stronger AX4n in place of the AX4S and I know the Powertrain Control Module has to be changed because of compatability issues !!! BUT !!! all the research I've done says their is no way to cross-reference the PCMs by application.

Ford Motor Company, their dealers, re-man places and auto wreckers have all said that the only way to get a PCM is by matching the Identification tag on the unit itself. This just seems a little (choose adjective) to me.

Some 1998 Tauruses came with the 3.0 L Vulcan / AX4N combination so the correct PCM is out there. My hope is that someone from this group owns such a beast and is willing to go to the effort of popping out their PCM and sending me the Identification Number by replying to this post.

I have also heard that there is a diffrerence in the right side axle length in regard to these transmissions.
Any advice or ideas will be very welcome.

Thank you, Popeye
 

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As far as the PCM the 4 digit code is on the PCM readable without removing it. To see what is and is not for the different tranny would require the Ford dealers cooperation.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks Supermod but the 4 digit code won't do. I need the 12 digit number printed directly below the EEC-V on the sticker.

For Example, my PCM is an " F8DF-12A650-ZA ". What I need is the corresponding number from a 1998 Taurus with a 3.0 L Vulcan and an AX4N transmission.

The Ford dealer and others have already said they can't help.

The engine code is "U" (8th digit in VIN number) and the transmission code is "X" (as seen on the door pillar label under Tr).

Thanks again, Popeye
 

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Usuually the Ford PCMs are in "families" depending on the EPROM size. Then they are in sub groups with the three letters of the PCM code different numbers. If Ford won't help then it's a tough row to hoe.
 

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You may have way more issues than you think. Yes, the trannie will bolt up.
But the half shaft lengths are differest. Not a deal killer, but an issue.

Now here is the possible deal killer:
something about the 99 years trannies are different.
It was a bastard year. Maybe something about the impedance on the solenoids
among other issues. You need to do much more research before you drop any bolts.

Maybe you can drop in a 99 PCM, maybe not. When changing PCM, you have to make sure
it came off a car with the same feature set as yours. If you have anti theft on either PCM,
the ford dealer will have to reprogram it as far as i know. or th car will suffer from pats
no start. And that all the pins and features are the same.

Best thing you can do is find a 99 with a bad trannie, or offer to swap.

http://www.fordecu.net/years/FORD_TAURUS_rnr.htm

I put a 96 pcm in my 97 and got away with it.
You might not be so lucky. And 98 and up stopped using the CCRM, so there is some difference there to.

Be VERY careful.

bob
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thank you Bob,

What I hope to do is find a vehicle match with another member to get the part number for the correct pcm. I have seen several in the garage section but I don't yet know how to contact the owners directly.

My car is a 1998 Taurus with the 3.0 L OHV Vulcan and the AX4N transmission. There shouldn't be a problem with a direct match.

As far as the axle difference, it's my impression that only thr right side axle is different.

Thanks for your patience with me guys. It's just that, after years of building streetrods from the ground up, I'll be damned if I'm going to get beat by a bone stock, daily driver, street beast.

Thanks again, Popeye
 

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QUOTE (popeye @ Jul 19 2009, 11:08 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=740567
Thank you Bob,

What I hope to do is find a vehicle match with another member to get the part number for the correct pcm. I have seen several in the garage section but I don't yet know how to contact the owners directly.

My car is a 1998 Taurus with the 3.0 L OHV Vulcan and the AX4N transmission. There shouldn't be a problem with a direct match.

As far as the axle difference, it's my impression that only thr right side axle is different.

Thanks for your patience with me guys. It's just that, after years of building streetrods from the ground up, I'll be damned if I'm going to get beat by a bone stock, daily driver, street beast.

Thanks again, Popeye[/b]
I have been trying to research the PCM issue with limited success in finding information.
I changed the pcm ON my 97 with a 96 and it worked, but i know there was a few
differences between the two.

The vulcan is the worst case for PCM numbers. There are at least three vin codes for the vulcan
Vin U is the most common, Then there is Vin 1 and Vin 2 as i recall from browsing Sites that sell
PCM's. One of the VINs i believe is for flex fuel, the other i am not sure. The flex fuel Vulcans
have different cylinder head chamber shapes, and additional sensors for the fuel. Then there is
STD, federal, and California for different calibrations. I believe my 97 with a AX4N has a EB or
EC suffix vulcan, non California, non flex vin u. A guess would be F8DF-eb (ec) for yours.

I have a 98 vin U vulcan in the driveway, but its got a AX4S in it. What i have not been able to
determine is whether the codes in the PCM are different between the 4S and 4N. Its strange, all
of the PCM sites i have looked at never ask if its a AX4S or AX4N. Just a notation thats its an
automatic. The other thing i have not been able to figure out is cars with pats, antilock, and
ETAC HVAC. I don't know at this point if the PCM all have the same programming in them
and just detect the features, or that the PCM has aditional code in it with a special part
number. Once this mystery is solved, it will be clear how the PCM swap issue will work.

On top of this is the current emissions calibration. It would be nice to have insider
information on all of this

Another issue to keep in mind is gear ratio. It could be different between some duratecs and
Vulcans, and between some model years. If you have a trannie with the wrong gear ratio for
your year of PCM, it will probably throw a code and maybe cause other shift and drivability issues.

http://javoosi.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets...I.360234128.pdf
http://rockauto.com/catalog/x,carcode,1305...1992%20INFINITI


bob
 

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QUOTE (popeye @ Jul 19 2009, 11:08 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=740567
Thank you Bob,

What I hope to do is find a vehicle match with another member to get the part number for the correct pcm. I have seen several in the garage section but I don't yet know how to contact the owners directly.

My car is a 1998 Taurus with the 3.0 L OHV Vulcan and the AX4N transmission. There shouldn't be a problem with a direct match.

As far as the axle difference, it's my impression that only thr right side axle is different.

Thanks for your patience with me guys. It's just that, after years of building streetrods from the ground up, I'll be damned if I'm going to get beat by a bone stock, daily driver, street beast.

Thanks again, Popeye[/b]
I have been trying to research the PCM issue with limited success in finding information.
I changed the pcm ON my 97 with a 96 and it worked, but i know there was a few
differences between the two.

The vulcan is the worst case for PCM numbers. There are at least three vin codes for the vulcan
Vin U is the most common, Then there is Vin 1 and Vin 2 as i recall from browsing Sites that sell
PCM's. One of the VINs i believe is for flex fuel, the other i am not sure. The flex fuel Vulcans
have different cylinder head chamber shapes, and additional sensors for the fuel. Then there is
STD, federal, and California for different calibrations. I believe my 97 with a AX4N has a EB or
EC suffix vulcan, non California, non flex vin u. A guess would be F8DF-eb (ec) for yours.

I have a 98 vin U vulcan in the driveway, but its got a AX4S in it. What i have not been able to
determine is whether the codes in the PCM are different between the 4S and 4N. Its strange, all
of the PCM sites i have looked at never ask if its a AX4S or AX4N. Just a notation thats its an
automatic. The other thing i have not been able to figure out is cars with pats, antilock, and
ETAC HVAC. I don't know at this point if the PCM all have the same programming in them
and just detect the features, or that the PCM has aditional code in it with a special part
number. Once this mystery is solved, it will be clear how the PCM swap issue will work.

On top of this is the current emissions calibration. It would be nice to have insider
information on all of this

Another issue to keep in mind is gear ratio. It could be different between some duratecs and
Vulcans, and between some model years. If you have a trannie with the wrong gear ratio for
your year of PCM, it will probably throw a code and maybe cause other shift and drivability issues.

http://javoosi.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets...I.360234128.pdf
http://rockauto.com/catalog/x,carcode,1305...1992%20INFINITI


bob
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Hi Bob and everybody else,

It seems that you have done as much head scratching as I have. I wish we could build a database of PCMs by application ( Year, Make, Model, Engine, Transmission, PCM Number ). If we can do that, it might make swaps easier for everyone.

Mine is 1998 Ford Taurus 3.0 L Vulcan OHV AX4S transmission PCM number F8DF-12A650-ZA.

I also have two Sable Wagons with the 3.0 L 24 valve Duratec and the AX4N transmission. Both cars are the same except that one is a '98 with a floor shifter and the CD player while the other is a '99, column shifter and no CD player. If I can get at the PCMs ( DURATEC ) I will pop them out to see if the numbers match.

I'll keep you posted

Thanks, Popeye
 

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QUOTE (SHOZ123 @ Jul 20 2009, 08:30 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=740719
Here is some PCM catch codes.[/b]
Another small part of the puzzle revealed. Where did you get that list?

What i find interesting is the ML2 numbers. The table says this is hardware.
There seems two be two or three versions per year or so?
I wonder what the differences are? More internal memory?
More inputs/outputs? Logic for pats? driver for air pump or FFV?
This table helps, but it still does not match part number to application specifically.
There are over 70 SKU's for 1997 alone. It seems like the FFV have there own
hardware code (for 97, ML2-30b)



All the units are 104 pin. but all the pins are not used.

If people are going to post, list year, engine (engine vin code), trim level, pats, FFV, CAlifornia or not,
List all information on the PCM. Including the large 4 digit cal number, the ML number, and the full part number with
the 2 or 3 digit suffix.

bob
 

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For the most part any '96-'97 can be used, any '98-'99 with the F8xx part numbers or the '99s with the XF1xx part numbers. These three breaks are due to the EPROM size.

When you see a series of two or three with the same three letters these are just programming revisions from the factory. As an example the G3 '97 SHO has AWL1,2 and 3.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Me again,

I'm beginning to wonder if we are over-thinking the whole problem of PCMs and transmission swaps. We know the PCM tells the transmission when to shift but the valve-body tells the tranny how to shift. The AX4S shifts sequentially because its vale-body is designed that way. The AX4N shifts non-sequentially because of its valve-body design.

I've pulled the PCMs out of all three of my cars and these are the specifications:

1998 Taurus/3.0 L Vulcan/AX4S PCM# F8DF-12A650-ZA

1998 Sable/3.0 L Duratec/AX4N PCM# F8DF-12A650-HC

1999 Sable/3.0 L Duratec/AX4N PCM# XF1F-12A650-LB

It's interesting that the center number is the same in all three cases.

I' m definitely no expert on automotive software but I'm kind of hoping that, if it walks like a duck, it's a damned duck. What do you people think?

'til later, Popeye
 

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QUOTE (popeye @ Jul 20 2009, 03:56 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=740809
Me again,

I'm beginning to wonder if we are over-thinking the whole problem of PCMs and transmission swaps. We know the PCM tells the transmission when to shift but the valve-body tells the tranny how to shift. The AX4S shifts sequentially because its vale-body is designed that way. The AX4N shifts non-sequentially because of its valve-body design.

I've pulled the PCMs out of all three of my cars and these are the specifications:

1998 Taurus/3.0 L Vulcan/AX4S PCM# F8DF-12A650-ZA

1998 Sable/3.0 L Duratec/AX4N PCM# F8DF-12A650-HC

1999 Sable/3.0 L Duratec/AX4N PCM# XF1F-12A650-LB

It's interesting that the center number is the same in all three cases.

I' m definitely no expert on automotive software but I'm kind of hoping that, if it walks like a duck, it's a damned duck. What do you people think?

'til later, Popeye[/b]

Well, my limited information theory on swaps is to only swap with the same Motor Vin number with the similar suffixes. I did swap a 96 vin u
into a 97 vin u. But i know for a fact that some functions on the canister vent were different between the two years. No codes, but
something is not quite the way it should be. And California cars sometimes have air pumps and different emissions than the other 48.
And, i have heard of people swapping PCM and having no starts because of issues with PATS. So, its not quite so simple.
But if we knew what features translated into what codes, part of the mystery would be solved.
You might get lucky, you might not....

For major groups, it would be motor type by Vin.
Then, CA or flex fuel.
Then the question whether the trannie information is the same between AX4S and AX4N.

I certainly would not swap a duratec PCM into a Vulcan. Thats asking for issues.

By the way, 12A650 is just fords label for a PCM. Its the numbers before and after it that make
it special to application.

There is a M code also that specifies the hardware revision.
It seems the flex fuel has its own special hardware.
Must have more guts or memory inside.

bob
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Popeye again,

I read a post this morning about a transmission problem after changinga hub. The poster was able to sort it out on their own ( congratulations ) but I noticed that the car has the drivetrain combination I need. That member's car is a '97/Vulcan/ AX4N. I replied to their post and asked them to post their engine code, transmission code, and PCM number here. If the PCM matches it will be another piece of the puzzle!

Just for reference, my car is listed below.

1998 Taurus / Engine code "U" Vulcan / Transmission code "L" AX4S /PCM# F8DF-12A650-ZA

The Hardware Type for Mine is ML2 - 486. I'm hoping that the other person's car has a PCM suffix of HC or a hardware code of ML2 - 487 which would match my '98 Duratec / AX4N Sable.

Join me for the next episode of " As the Tranny Turns ", same time, same forum.

See ya, Popeye
 

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Just conformation that the E8DF-12A650 refers to the ECU but not a engine/trans software spec ...

I have an old '88 Taurus Vulcan ECU with 3 printed numbers E8DF-12A650-L1B, EFI-SD9 and EEC-IV.
On a separate label it has E8DF-L1B 8NC ... I assume this refers to the software/hardware pack.
This label is on the other end of the ECU (glove-box end). You can see the spec by dropping the glove-box.

The ECU also has a number stamped in ink (not printed) ...E8F13.

P.S. I also notice that 8NC is printed in large letters, top right on the main label.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Hi Gary123,

I saw your post and thankyou but the ECU or PCM from your old '88 is a whole different animal than the one i a '98. What I need is from a car as close as possible to my own but with an AX4N transmission.

Thanks for the input, Popeye
 

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1997 3.0L vulcan AX4N

f7df-12a650-ec ML2-30C NXZ2

f7df 12a650-EB ML2-30C NXZ1

bob
 

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QUOTE (popeye @ Aug 2 2009, 10:43 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=743992
Thanks Bob,

I'll check these out.

Popeye[/b]
I have a spare PCM if you need one. Plane jane, no pats. 1997.
If you are putting in the newer trannie, you need to check out the Lock up
solenoid. I rememeber seeing something about that being different in the
newer units (high/low impedance or such). So there may be some issue with
swapping a newer trannie in.

bob
 
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