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Discussion Starter #1
Hey guys,
I'm new here. Nice to meet you all.
Glad to know there are guys out there as enthusiastic about their Tauri as I am.

I just bought a used '99 Taurus SE with a Duratec and 55k miles on it. I've been reading up on this model's engine, and apparently it is a bit less powerful than other years because of a more restrictive exhaust system in the 99 type.

I've been thinking about modding my car even before I bought this new Taurus, but now that I know of this issue, I'm firmly determined to free up the exhaust. I'm not a racing buff or car junkie or anything, just a hothead senior looking for something interesting to work on during the summer, and I want my engine at full potential.

What I'm looking for is an inexpensive way to relieve some of the exhaust backpressure (in turn increasing my engine's performance) and at the same time give my car that nice, deep rumbling tone when its idling or revving.

If you know of products (and ways to find those products at cheap prices); guides to install said products (or places where I can get them installed cheap :p); diameter sizes on pipes, valves, or anything else that might need to be known for installation of an exhaust system; or any other crazy ideas you might have, please post it all here.

Thanks a million guys.
 

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you mean 200 at the CRANK not at the wheels.....

does it really lose 50 hp when measure HP at the wheels ? dam thats alot of loss ...

i figured they would put down more then 150 at the wheels with a 200 hp crank engine ..
 

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the story about the 99's making less power is bull.....not one shread of truth or fact to it.

There anre many 99 cars making more than 200 crank stock!

Brad

ps....welcome to the club!
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks for all the advice, guys.

Can anyone explain to me what a cat-back exhaust system does?

Also, how would I go about reducing the pressure of the emissions? Would that cost more / be more complicated?

And if Brad is right and all is well with my exhaust, can anyone recommend some good mufflers to give my Duratec that nice, low rumble?

Thanks again.
 

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How much are you looking to spend? If you have the dough, I would suggest waiting for the draxas cat-back. They make nice stuff that performs well, and I doubt they'd sell anything that sounds stupid. The cat back just consists of pipes, mufflers, and tips from your catalytic converters(emissions crap) on back to the exhaust tips.

If had to to do it all over again, I would have kept the stock exhaust set-up and gone with an exhaust cut-out. That way the performance is there when you need it, and you're under the radar the rest of the time.
 

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Get a chip while your waiting for that Draxis setup. It should make up for thoses rumored lost ponies and the tranny reprogramming will make it more fun to drive.
 

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Hey, I like saying my car is 185hp stock, makes my dyno numbers and 1/4 numbers sound that much better.


Venom
 

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Only some '99's were rated at a lower crank HP. I believe it was all late '99's We think it was a ploy to make the Gen 4's appear to have a power increase over the '99 gen 3.

Anywho, the story behind the power loss is likely not really the single exhaust, but rather that you have a 9:1 compression ratio rather then a 10:1 like the duratecs normally have. Unless you have a freak rebuild like one of our members here which has a 2000 block on '99 heads in his Gen 3 and has a 10.5:1 compression ratio.


-Dan
 

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Discussion Starter #9
QUOTE
Get a chip while your waiting for that Draxis setup. It should make up for thoses rumored lost ponies and the tranny reprogramming will make it more fun to drive.[/b]
I don't know much about chips. What would be the best one to get? What all would it affect/improve? Where can I find it? How much is it? And how easy is it to install?

QUOTE
How much are you looking to spend? If you have the dough, I would suggest waiting for the draxas cat-back. They make nice stuff that performs well, and I doubt they'd sell anything that sounds stupid. The cat back just consists of pipes, mufflers, and tips from your catalytic converters(emissions crap) on back to the exhaust tips.[/b]
Well, I am a penniless high school student, but I'm scrapping together some money here and there with odd jobs. I'm looking to spend in the $200 range. The whole Draxas system sounds sweet, but I bet it will probably cost a boatload. Can anyone suggest just a muffler that would make my car sound sweet?

Right now, I think it might just be easier to get a chip and a muffler, then continue from there once the funds allow it.

Thanks a bunch, guys
 

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Originally posted by dant98@Mar 8 2004, 07:53 AM
Only some '99's were rated at a lower crank HP. I believe it was all late '99's We think it was a ploy to make the Gen 4's appear to have a power increase over the '99 gen 3.

Anywho, the story behind the power loss is likely not really the single exhaust, but rather that you have a 9:1 compression ratio rather then a 10:1 like the duratecs normally have. Unless you have a freak rebuild like one of our members here which has a 2000 block on '99 heads in his Gen 3 and has a 10.5:1 compression ratio.


-Dan
I have yet to see any proof that these rumors of lower compression are true. I seriously doubt it. Could definitely have been a marketing ploy to make the 2000 look better. My owners manual states that the duratec is 200 hp.
 

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i dod not mean our exhausts are freat...actually they suck, but it has nothing to do with making less hp

Brad
 

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for a cheap exhaust mod you can rob the exhaust off of a 96-98 Taurus or Sable with dual exhaust at the salvage yard. I did this to my '99 Duratec and I added 2 stainless MagnaFlows. I like the sound. Low and a little rumbly at idle, and pretty smooth and quiet on the highway. I did noticed that it took about 2 weeks for the exhaust note to really mellow out. At first it sounded a little ricey, but it calmed down after 2 weeks. A decent welder or muffler shop should be able to weld new mufflers on for about $50-75.

I will have some pics up this week. I just bought a new digital camera. Hopefully I can get some sound bites too.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Yeah, my SE has dual exhaust.

I've seen Magnaflows and Flowmasters on eBay. Which type would you guys recommend?

I'll look around at the local junkyard, but if I can't find any, what'r the running prices on some good mufflers?

Thanks a mill.

[EDIT]
QUOTE
Get a chip while your waiting for that Draxis setup. It should make up for thoses rumored lost ponies and the tranny reprogramming will make it more fun to drive.[/b]
Dagamemnon, what kind of chip would you recommend? I've been pondering a superchip, and it sounds worth it. I'm interested in one just to improve performance of the engine, I don't need a really complicated one for racing or anything. What's a good kind? And how much are they?
 

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Originally posted by eXoDuS@Mar 8 2004, 08:50 PM
Yeah, my SE has dual exhaust.
If you have a '99 with duals, you must have an early model. The later '99 SE Duratecs have single exhaust and rear drums. So if the myth about the 185hp were true, you have a 200hp model. (BTW - that myth is BS)

QUOTE
I'll look around at the local junkyard, but if I can't find any, what'r the running prices on some good mufflers?[/b]
I bought my MagnaFlows from eBay. I paid about $120 shipped for the pair.

QUOTE
I've been pondering a superchip, and it sounds worth it.  I'm interested in one just to improve performance of the engine, I don't need a really complicated one for racing or anything.  What's a good kind?  And how much are they?[/b]
Chips cost between $250 - $325. I have the Apten chip, which is the same as the Diablo. Other people on the board have had good experience with American Motorsports. He can relfash your car's computer or sell a chip. He uses SCT chips.
 

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Originally posted by the_spy_guy@Mar 7 2004, 10:30 PM
the story about the 99's making less power is bull.....not one shread of truth or fact to it.

There anre many 99 cars making more than 200 crank stock!

Brad

ps....welcome to the club!
you do realize what you just said right ??

if the engine is rated at 200 hp from the factory and it is stock .. how is it making more crank hp then the stock numbers without mods ??

and do you have proof of this ... a DYNO graph would be good proof .. but dynos usually display AT THE WHEEL hp numbers .. not at the crank...

there def are not stock ones rolling around with more then 200 hp CRANK from the factory unless they are underrating the engine put in the car. or they are freaks of nature



on a side note

25% drivetrain loss is ALOT .. is it the tranny thats sucking away all the hp ...

any one have any dynos of the duratec to see what kind of hp they are making at the wheels...


lets not get confused

crank = engine hp ...

wheel hp = the actual power the car puts down after taking into account drivetrain loss
 

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Originally posted by e[X
oDuS,Mar 8 2004, 09:50 PM]Dagamemnon, what kind of chip would you recommend?  I've been pondering a superchip, and it sounds worth it.  I'm interested in one just to improve performance of the engine, I don't need a really complicated one for racing or anything.  What's a good kind?  And how much are they?
I got mine from www.Apten-us.com, it was about $240 with the switch to drop back to stock settings. Install is pretty easy, just pull out the computer (in the firewall, passenger side) stick the chip in the back, reassemble, then go out and pretend your in nascar.
 

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Originally posted by mass97G@Mar 9 2004, 06:57 AM
there def are not stock ones rolling around with more then 200 hp CRANK from the factory unless they are underrating the engine put in the car. or they are freaks of nature


on a side note

25% drivetrain loss is ALOT .. is it the tranny thats sucking away all the hp ...
Just a couple of comments here.......

With from-the factory crank HP, there are going to be engines that can produce (as an example) anywhere from 190 to 210 HP at the crank. Some of it is production tolerances, other times it's the break-in process, oil used, etc.

Now, for wheel HP, it it not a 25% loss. About the only cars on the market with a 25% loss are the Chrysler products like the 300Ms that have north-south engines and are FWD. They have an extra 90-degree bend in the power delivery.

For Tauri (SHOs or SLOs), using 18% for an MTX and 22% for an ATX drivetrain loss seem to be reasonable numbers.

Many things can affect this, like tire type & pressure, tranny fluid age & type, bad CV joints, etc, etc. This is why the HP numbers to the wheels are the only really valid numbers, as there are other things that sap power to the wheels.

Anyway, using these loss figures, a 200 HP Duratec that truly produces 200 HP would put 156 HP to the wheels.

FWIW, in dyno days over the years, V6 AT SHOs would generally be in the high 170 HP range for a stock engine, and the MTX cars would be in the low-mid 180s for stock engines. There were some stock MTXs that cracked 190 WHP, but they are rare.
 

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Originally posted by Ron Porter@Mar 9 2004, 04:12 PM
With from-the factory crank HP, there are going to be engines that can produce (as an example) anywhere from 190 to 210 HP at the crank. Some of it is production tolerances, other times it's the break-in process, oil used, etc.
This coming from the man who ran a 14.6 second quarter mile in an unmodded Gen3 SHO, correct? That would put you well over 235 crank HP
Or is that story just an urban legend?
 

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Originally posted by SixFoFalcon@Mar 9 2004, 04:20 PM
This coming from the man who ran a 14.6 second quarter mile in an unmodded Gen3 SHO, correct?  That would put you well over 235 crank HP
  Or is that story just an urban legend? 
Nope, it's true (a 14.673, actually). The car was mildly modded, but there is a long story and explanation that goes with these times.....that many people don't seem to want to remember. FWIW, here are the times for that day:


60' 1/8 ET--MPH 1/4 ET 1/4mph LANE NOTES
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2.283 9.748 77.66 14.990 93.34 S 40#s in fronts, too much spin
2.247 9.933 77.32 14.847 95.82 T 36#s (& next 3 runs), best Trap Speed
2.078 9.516 77.92 14.673 95.32 S PERFECT RUN!!-PERFECT LAUNCH!!
2.178 9.648 77.69 14.809 95.37 S Scott drove it.
2.215 9.732 76.57 14.925 94.70 T Scott drove it.
2.197 9.697 77.39 14.886 94.57 S 32#s
2.185 9.678 76.73 14.868 94.73 T 32#s
2.231 9.707 77.52 14.878 95.12 T 36#s, plus covered airbox holes
2.237 9.717 77.05 14.867 95.54 T 36#s, plus covered airbox holes
2.163 9.661 77.26 14.845 94.69 S 36#s, plus covered airbox holes
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Avg ET/speed: 14.859 94.92

In my mind, what was more important than the "best" time was the average and the fact that there were NO runs in the 15s.

Again, what is "key" are the dozens of posts that preceded these runs WRT car break-in, car prep, weather conditions, track conditions, etc. If anyone is seriously interested in hearing about that, I can provide the info.
 

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my 2002 sable duratec was dynoed by draxas and the hp was 148 to the front wheels stock with only a k&n Panel filter i belive we hit 150 with the short ram kit installed on my car. it will be interesting to see what a cold air intake they are making will do.
 
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