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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
2000 Mercury Sable Wagon GS 3.0L Vulcan engine. 182,000.00 miles. Starting today I turned the vehicle off at my garage. When trying to restart engine it would turn over again once but would not start. After letting engine sit for about an hour it started. After turning vehicle off tried to check for any set codes but scanner showed no link to computer again vehicle would not start will try again tonight after engine cools off. Any idea what is causing this problem? I know electrical problems can get pricey to fix, hopefully one of you guys have had a similiar experience and can pass along the fix. To me problem sounds like something has become heat sensitive. Is engine computer going bad, is there a wiring problem? Just bought the car and if it costs me a couple thousand to fix this would really suck. Bob S.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
QUOTE (shearerrl @ May 29 2010, 05:05 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=807709
2000 Mercury Sable Wagon GS 3.0L Vulcan engine. 182,000.00 miles. Starting today I turned the vehicle off at my garage. When trying to restart engine it would turn over again once but would not start. After letting engine sit for about an hour it started. After turning vehicle off tried to check for any set codes but scanner showed no link to computer again vehicle would not start will try again tonight after engine cools off. Any idea what is causing this problem? I know electrical problems can get pricey to fix, hopefully one of you guys have had a similiar experience and can pass along the fix. To me problem sounds like something has become heat sensitive. Is engine computer going bad, is there a wiring problem? Just bought the car and if it costs me a couple thousand to fix this would really suck. Bob S.[/b]

Thats possible but cycled the key rapidly several times and engine ocassionally tries to start but does not am thinking relay, something electrical but mechanical. Need to find a wiring diagram to figure out where power comes from for the starter and also applies power to the cpu. Believe it is wired this way because if engine cranked over without cpu (ON) engine would go out of time and you would really have issues. Have looked in the owners manual the only mention of a relay for the starter I could find is under the dash not very much detail and no wiring diagram. Bob S.
 

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When you say it won't start, do you mean the starer motor doesn't try to crank the engine, or that the starter motor turns the engine over but it won't fire & run?????

I'm not certain which fuse position powers the scantool diagnostic port on your 2000 bull, but on a Ranger it's the cigar lighter fuse, so check the owners manual as has been suggested, or the in cabin fuse panel for a blown fuse.

If you don't have an owners manual, you can download one from a stickey link I posted atop this forums how too section.
 

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QUOTE (pawpaw @ May 29 2010, 10:05 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=807775
When you say it won't start, do you mean the starer motor doesn't try to crank the engine, or that the starter motor turns the engine over but it won't fire & run?????[/b]

:thumb: good catch pawpaw.


is it cranking the starter or not? you failed to give good info to help on this cause it could be the starter solenoid attached to the starter. causing no rotation of the starter . or even the starter magnet has a flat spot or the housing is warped from heat from the exhaust. so it will crank but real slowly. there are reasons for it to act funny so please be as descriptive as possible so we can help the best we can.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
QUOTE (sadistic @ May 29 2010, 10:48 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=807784
QUOTE (pawpaw @ May 29 2010, 10:05 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=807775
When you say it won't start, do you mean the starer motor doesn't try to crank the engine, or that the starter motor turns the engine over but it won't fire & run?????[/b]

:thumb: good catch pawpaw.


is it cranking the starter or not? you failed to give good info to help on this cause it could be the starter solenoid attached to the starter. causing no rotation of the starter . or even the starter magnet has a flat spot or the housing is warped from heat from the exhaust. so it will crank but real slowly. there are reasons for it to act funny so please be as descriptive as possible so we can help the best we can.
[/b][/quote]


Sorry about that. Previously turning the key to start position would not do anything no noises no cranking no link with computer when using scanner. This morning I initially checked for codes with my scanner but still no link. Cycled key several times and engine would crank for a second then quit. Cycled ignition switch a few more times and engine started but acted like it wanted to die but kept running. After shutting engine off again checked for codes--no codes were present. Again turned the ignition to start and engine started did this several times and engine still started this is after vehicle cooled off all night.
 

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QUOTE (shearerrl @ May 30 2010, 06:45 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=807850
QUOTE (sadistic @ May 29 2010, 10:48 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=807784
QUOTE (pawpaw @ May 29 2010, 10:05 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=807775
When you say it won't start, do you mean the starer motor doesn't try to crank the engine, or that the starter motor turns the engine over but it won't fire & run?????[/b]

:thumb: good catch pawpaw.


is it cranking the starter or not? you failed to give good info to help on this cause it could be the starter solenoid attached to the starter. causing no rotation of the starter . or even the starter magnet has a flat spot or the housing is warped from heat from the exhaust. so it will crank but real slowly. there are reasons for it to act funny so please be as descriptive as possible so we can help the best we can.
[/b][/quote]


Sorry about that. Previously turning the key to start position would not do anything no noises no cranking no link with computer when using scanner. This morning I initially checked for codes with my scanner but still no link. Cycled key several times and engine would crank for a second then quit. Cycled ignition switch a few more times and engine started but acted like it wanted to die but kept running. After shutting engine off again checked for codes--no codes were present. Again turned the ignition to start and engine started did this several times and engine still started this is after vehicle cooled off all night.
[/b][/quote]

OK, good feedback.

Depending on how strong the starter is cranking the engine, right now it kinda sounds like it could be a battery cable connection, or battery problem.

So raise the hood & have a look at the top of the battery, where the thick cables attach to the battery posts & look for corrosion deposits, or a loose connection of one of the cable clamps to the battery post.

These connections Must be Clean, no green/white corrosion, the contact surfaces Shinny Bright & the battery cable clamp to the battery post must be Tight.

You can do a quick home electrical load test, by switching the headlights, rear defroster & heater fan on high speed & checking to see how bright the head ligts are. If they're dim, or the fan doesn't seem to run very fast, or the lights go out as you try to crank the engine, suspect the battery, or cable connections.
So turn everything off & go feel the connections, if they're warm/hot, suspect a bad connecton at the warm spot. If the connection are not hot, suspect the battery has an internal problem.

If you don't want to, or don't feel comfortable messing with the electrical things & since the car is new to you & it's maintenance history is not likely known & it has a lot of miles on it, if you can get it started, why not consider running this puppy by your favorite autoparts store for a no cost, in vehicle, electrical system checkup, via their portable electrical system tester.

Properly used it can likely spot the problem & do a proper electrical system load test, which will check the health of the battery, alternator, battery cables, their connections & the starter motor.

On the scantool/code reader not operating, it's commom for sellers to pull the fuse to the scantool/code reader diagnostic connector & maybe the CEL lamp too, if the vehicle has problems.

Some more thoughts for cosideration, let us know what you find.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
QUOTE (pawpaw @ May 30 2010, 07:50 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=807863
QUOTE (shearerrl @ May 30 2010, 06:45 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=807850
QUOTE (sadistic @ May 29 2010, 10:48 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=807784
QUOTE (pawpaw @ May 29 2010, 10:05 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=807775
When you say it won't start, do you mean the starer motor doesn't try to crank the engine, or that the starter motor turns the engine over but it won't fire & run?????[/b]

:thumb: good catch pawpaw.


is it cranking the starter or not? you failed to give good info to help on this cause it could be the starter solenoid attached to the starter. causing no rotation of the starter . or even the starter magnet has a flat spot or the housing is warped from heat from the exhaust. so it will crank but real slowly. there are reasons for it to act funny so please be as descriptive as possible so we can help the best we can.
[/b][/quote]


Sorry about that. Previously turning the key to start position would not do anything no noises no cranking no link with computer when using scanner. This morning I initially checked for codes with my scanner but still no link. Cycled key several times and engine would crank for a second then quit. Cycled ignition switch a few more times and engine started but acted like it wanted to die but kept running. After shutting engine off again checked for codes--no codes were present. Again turned the ignition to start and engine started did this several times and engine still started this is after vehicle cooled off all night.
[/b][/quote]

OK, good feedback.

Depending on how strong the starter is cranking the engine, right now it kinda sounds like it could be a battery cable connection, or battery problem.

So raise the hood & have a look at the top of the battery, where the thick cables attach to the battery posts & look for corrosion deposits, or a loose connection of one of the cable clamps to the battery post.

These connections Must be Clean, no green/white corrosion, the contact surfaces Shinny Bright & the battery cable clamp to the battery post must be Tight.

You can do a quick home electrical load test, by switching the headlights, rear defroster & heater fan on high speed & checking to see how bright the head ligts are. If they're dim, or the fan doesn't seem to run very fast, or the lights go out as you try to crank the engine, suspect the battery, or cable connections.
So turn everything off & go feel the connections, if they're warm/hot, suspect a bad connecton at the warm spot. If the connection are not hot, suspect the battery has an internal problem.

If you don't want to, or don't feel comfortable messing with the electrical things & since the car is new to you & it's maintenance history is not likely known & it has a lot of miles on it, if you can get it started, why not consider running this puppy by your favorite autoparts store for a no cost, in vehicle, electrical system checkup, via their portable electrical system tester.

Properly used it can likely spot the problem & do a proper electrical system load test, which will check the health of the battery, alternator, battery cables, their connections & the starter motor.

On the scantool/code reader not operating, it's commom for sellers to pull the fuse to the scantool/code reader diagnostic connector & maybe the CEL lamp too, if the vehicle has problems.

Some more thoughts for cosideration, let us know what you find.
[/b][/quote]


Just went out and started engine. Started on first try. Cycled key several times could hear fuel pump energize vehicle would start. On last try fuel pump did not energize vehicle would not start turned on headlights and tried to crank--headlights did not dim with key in crank position. Cycled key several more times engine started then stalled. Again cycled key engine finally started and kept running until I shut it down. If a fuse is bad it cannot repair itself. Bob S.
 

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OK, more good feedback & trouble shooting.

With the headlights not dimming when cranking, suggests the battery, cables & their connections are ok.

NOT hearing the fuel pump run for a couple of seconds before cranking the engine, makes me want to suspect the fuel pump power relay, or fuel pump is intermittent!!!!

So you could back probe the fuel pump B+ feed at the in trunk inertia switch, while having someone cycle the ignition switch from off to run, but not crank the engine.
You should get B+ each time the ignition switch is turned to run & you should hear the fuel pump run for a couple of seconds & turn off.

If the B+ is absent at any key cycle to run, suspect the relay. If you have B+ each time the ignition is switched to run, but the pump doesn't run, suspect the pump.

Edit: Another thought crossed my mind. Seeing as how this ride has lots of miles on it & you once reported NOT hearing any under hood sounds & the starter motor not cranking the engine, I suppose you should also add the ignition switch to your suspect list.

SO, if it gives you another one of those silent treatment fits at KOER. or when trying to crank the engine, try wigglng the ignition switch & see if things wake up. IF so, suspect it too.
 

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to me it sounds like a fuel filter but do not rule out the pump get a fuel filter remove the old one and dump supply side in to a funnel with a white coffee filter in it. see how much junk come out and put the new one in if you got a gague measure fuel pressure with it to see if it is at the right pressure. if it is not could be a sign the fuel pump is going here is a link to a fuel pressure gague for 30 +s&h auto zone has them for like 120 bucks so keep this in mind.
fuel filter are like 15 bucks and plug up some times a very simple fix and act like a pump problem this is why i replace them if checking fuel pressure at the rail.

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?rls...ed=0CDQQ8wIwAQ#
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Talked to previous owner. He stated that he had replaced the fuel pump last year with a new one it still sounds to me that what ever is supplying main power to the PCM and fuel pump is not engaging ocassionally. When the ignition key is cycled current surge sometimes makes it work. I am not familiar with control circuits in ford systems in my opinion it could be the ignition switch, starter relay or some other control device. I will have to buy a repair manual for this Sable and check out the wiring diagram. Bob S.
 

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Power Relays are always good subjects for our suspect list, so if you have another silent no crank start, with no dash warning lights lit, add the PCM power relay to your suspect list, as it feeds power to the PCM to enable it to actuate the fuel pump power relay for a couple of seconds to prime the fuel system & build fuel pressure for the start.

So if the dash warning lights aren't on, the PCM power relay or ignition switch is suspect. If the dash warning lights are on, but the fuel pump doesn't run, suspect the fuel pump power relay or maybe the in trunk pump inertia cutoff switch, as Ford has had some problems with contacts in them. Maybe try thumping it to cause it to trip, then reset it to get it to a new contact spot & see if you get joy!!!!

Your local Library may have repair manuals & or repair CD's for check out, or review, so you could check different pubishers repair format & content, to see which publishers detail & layout best fits your needs, before making a purchase.

Many Libraries now have an online inventory of available repair pubs, or a call would determine if they have one to cover your model/year.

I went to my Library to check out various publishers instuctions, repair detail & format, before I bought my Taurus & Ranger manuals, even though they didn't have the exact year I needed, I determined which publishers offerings would likely provide the detail I wanted & needed.

Some folks prefer a manual on CD, as it offers up more detail.
But to be really useful one needs a laptop close by, but it's still a pia to have to go to a danged computer & scroll through endless files to get a piece of info, with dirty hands, but sometimes the info is needed. So think through the detail needed before you make a purchase.

A bunch more thoughts for pondering, let us know what you do & find.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
QUOTE (pawpaw @ May 31 2010, 11:01 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=808080
Power Relays are always good subjects for our suspect list, so if you have another silent no crank start, with no dash warning lights lit, add the PCM power relay to your suspect list, as it feeds power to the PCM to enable it to actuate the fuel pump power relay for a couple of seconds to prime the fuel system & build fuel pressure for the start.

So if the dash warning lights aren't on, the PCM power relay or ignition switch is suspect. If the dash warning lights are on, but the fuel pump doesn't run, suspect the fuel pump power relay or maybe the in trunk pump inertia cutoff switch, as Ford has had some problems with contacts in them. Maybe try thumping it to cause it to trip, then reset it to get it to a new contact spot & see if you get joy!!!!

Your local Library may have repair manuals & or repair CD's for check out, or review, so you could check different pubishers repair format & content, to see which publishers detail & layout best fits your needs, before making a purchase.

Many Libraries now have an online inventory of available repair pubs, or a call would determine if they have one to cover your model/year.

I went to my Library to check out various publishers instuctions, repair detail & format, before I bought my Taurus & Ranger manuals, even though they didn't have the exact year I needed, I determined which publishers offerings would likely provide the detail I wanted & needed.

Some folks prefer a manual on CD, as it offers up more detail.
But to be really useful one needs a laptop close by, but it's still a pia to have to go to a danged computer & scroll through endless files to get a piece of info, with dirty hands, but sometimes the info is needed. So think through the detail needed before you make a purchase.

A bunch more thoughts for pondering, let us know what you do & find.[/b]

Had not thought about the inertia cutoff switch. Was not sure what powered what. If the PCM energizes the fuel pump relay then whatever is in the main PCM power circuit could be the problem. Control power flow to PCM--Ignition switch, Inertia switch? Knowing what follows what would be helpful. Any idea the test procedure for inertia switch is? Where in the control circuit is the Inertia switch? Does it supply power only to the electric fuel pump? Would the inertia switch inhibit engine cranking? Does lack of engine cranking inhibit fuel pump operation? Bob S.
 

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Well generally the fuel pump routing is, ignition switch, PCM power relay, PCM which then activates the fuel pump power relay, then to the in trunk fuel pump inertia cut-off switch, then to the fuel pump.

Well you could do a resistance check accross the contacts on the inertia switch with a good quality multimeter. It should measure close to zero ohms, but it's easier to do the bump test, to trip the inerita switch that I posted above.

If your often having a silent no crank condition, with no dash warning lights lit, then look to the ignition switch & PCM power relay, electrical connectors & related wiring, in about that order.

If your year/model Taurus has seperate relays in the under hood power distribution box for the PCM & fuel pump, you could try swapping in a like relay, not needed to run the engine, say the A/C clutch power relay & see if the problem clears. If so, replace the origional relay.
Or you could try thumping the suspect relay & see if it'll wake up!!!

Power relays are a known trouble item, so they've earned their place on suspect lists.

More trouble shooting thoughts for consideration.
 

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Not to be disrespectful but I think you guys are focusing on the wrong thing here.... The problem with the fuel pump, he says occurs when he doesn't get anything from the cars as far as a starter crank or anything...The fuel pump seems to be victim of whatever is causing the issue in it's entirety....The focus should be switched to connections and the like! Talk to the previous owner and inquire about any electrical work he may have had done, any major car surgery(e.g. Engine swap, trans swap) any accidents, etc. And also what someone else said, PawPaw I think, that ignition switch could be at it's wits end....just some suggestions, I hope this helps!!! BTW- I'm new to the ford arena-I am a previous GM man, owning several before acquiring my Bull! :)
 

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Turn on the windshield wipers, and the right blinker.
Attempt the key dance again. if the windshield wipers cut off, no crank, and no blinker, along with no fuel pump, you need to replace the ignition switch slide.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
QUOTE (brokie @ May 31 2010, 05:55 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=808164
Turn on the windshield wipers, and the right blinker.
Attempt the key dance again. if the windshield wipers cut off, no crank, and no blinker, along with no fuel pump, you need to replace the ignition switch slide.[/b]
According to the previous owner only maintence he has performed is Oil & Filter changes, brake work, sway bar links, coolant flush and replacement of the fuel pump last year and as far as I can tell this was a one owner vehicle mostly highway miles. Previous owner stated that he had a no start condition when he was driving the car on a regular basis that is when he replaced the fuel pump before putting the car up for sale. This appears to be turning into an intermittent no start.
 

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Try what I said...
Motorcraft part number for our cars is SW5011, and is a common failure point for high mileage cars.
Its the same switch from 1994-2007, DO NOT BUY the white ones from 1994 (Fires) buy only the grey or black REVB or newer (the tabs don't bind, and short).
When you replace it, be sure to check the linkage for play.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
QUOTE (brokie @ May 31 2010, 07:54 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=808183
Try what I said...
Motorcraft part number for our cars is SW5011, and is a common failure point for high mileage cars.
Its the same switch from 1994-2007, DO NOT BUY the white ones from 1994 (Fires) buy only the grey or black REVB or newer (the tabs don't bind, and short).
When you replace it, be sure to check the linkage for play.[/b]

Are you refering to the ignition Switch?? Bob S.
 
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