Taurus Car Club of America : Ford Taurus Forum banner

1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
62 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hi guys,

I'm getting a little annoyed with the behavior of this 2004 Taurus. In October, January and today (April) the engine just stopped while stepping on the gas at a traffic light (1 time when I stopped at a traffic light, 1 time exactly when taking the foot off the gas and 1 time when getting my foot ON the gas pedal to move ahead). No shaking, no sound, just dead. Split second. So discreetly that I didn't feel it and I didn't know why it wouldn't go when I step on the gas. Every time I put it in neutral and it started right up, no problems after that, probably for another 3 months!
Here's what I have so far:
- new crankshaft sensor in October (first time stalling)
- new camshaft positioning sensor (it was whistling at me...)
- no CEL
- 6 months old Motorcraft IAC
- no problems idling
- 99% sure no vacuum leak
- alternator and battery check fine with voltmeter (although, this might be worth mentioning - every now and then, when my AC blower is on 4, in 5-10 min of driving I clearly hear the blower's RPM increasing by 20-30%, all of a sudden)
- new fuel pump 6 months ago (stupid situation - I had accidentally triggered the emergency shut off fuel pump switch in the trunk and I went ahead and replaced the pump...Oh, boy...)
- New o-ring on the MRC 6 months ago
- wiggled and pulled (softly) on all cables and also wiggled the relays under the hood with the engine on; no change
- new spark plugs and wires 6 months ago
I would appreciate any input. Thank you!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,651 Posts
Hi guys,

I'm getting a little annoyed with the behavior of this 2004 Taurus. In October, January and today (April) the engine just stopped while stepping on the gas at a traffic light (1 time when I stopped at a traffic light, 1 time exactly when taking the foot off the gas and 1 time when getting my foot ON the gas pedal to move ahead). No shaking, no sound, just dead. Split second. So discreetly that I didn't feel it and I didn't know why it wouldn't go when I step on the gas. Every time I put it in neutral and it started right up, no problems after that, probably for another 3 months!
Here's what I have so far:
- new crankshaft sensor in October (first time stalling)
- new camshaft positioning sensor (it was whistling at me...)
- no CEL
- 6 months old Motorcraft IAC
- no problems idling
- 99% sure no vacuum leak
- alternator and battery check fine with voltmeter (although, this might be worth mentioning - every now and then, when my AC blower is on 4, in 5-10 min of driving I clearly hear the blower's RPM increasing by 20-30%, all of a sudden)
- new fuel pump 6 months ago (stupid situation - I had accidentally triggered the emergency shut off fuel pump switch in the trunk and I went ahead and replaced the pump...Oh, boy...)
- New o-ring on the MRC 6 months ago
- wiggled and pulled (softly) on all cables and also wiggled the relays under the hood with the engine on; no change
- new spark plugs and wires 6 months ago
I would appreciate any input. Thank you!
Might want to monitor the volts. I note, the issue with the blower changing speed with no input from you. Plug in volt meter in the power port might show some unusual voltage spikes/lulls.

-chart-
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
62 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Faulty ignition switch????
Hmmm... Sounds too simple to be true, I'm not that lucky! How do I verify it?
I'll start with replacing the throttle positioning and be back with an update.
Anyway, tonight I tried to recreate the problem, in every and any possible way. Stop, slow acceleration, stop and floor it, stop and go etc. Nothing. Not a single glitch or hesitation in 20 min... Hope it won't die on me in Georgia mountains downhill during my vacation...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,651 Posts
Hmmm... Sounds too simple to be true, I'm not that lucky! How do I verify it?
I'll start with replacing the throttle positioning and be back with an update.
Anyway, tonight I tried to recreate the problem, in every and any possible way. Stop, slow acceleration, stop and floor it, stop and go etc. Nothing. Not a single glitch or hesitation in 20 min... Hope it won't die on me in Georgia mountains downhill during my vacation...
I would do an electric test before any long trip. As below.

Battery cable/wiring check
This should take about 5-10 minutes.
Tools. Digital VM, range 200MV to 2.0V.
Hood open.
  1. Key on (not start) Blower on high, lights high beam.
  2. Probe leads, Pos battery post to mega fuse (or older cars use post on fuse box) Not the cable ends, but, post to post to bridge the cable.
  3. Volts range ~100 mv or less. ( 0.10V or less)
  4. Neg bat post to engine metal 50 mv or less.
  5. Neg bat post to body metal 100 mv or less.
On the pos side, high reading = bad cable, or ends not good connection.
On the body ground (fender) high reading = bad cable or ends not good connection.
If you have a high number, then measure one step at a time; that is post to clamp, clamp to wire, wire to eyelet, eyelet to fender etc. Find the weak connection, and fix it.
On the negative side, the ground is split with one to the body, one to the engine block and then the ground strap from the block to the body near the passenger side firewall. Thus the body is double grounded. You need both. Engine strap to firewall is important as this is the ground to the PCM.
Ground strap test. Key off . Remove the battery ground to the fender from the fender. Turn HL on high beam. They should light normal. If not the ground strap from the block to the firewall/PCM post is bad. Clean the fender where the neg cable bolts on, put the ground cable back. Fix the ground strap. The ground strap keeps the PCM and engine block/Alt at the same ground level. When the engine is running, the negative current path is mostly engine block-ground strap to the body, bat cable to fender is secondary.
Alternate test of ground strap: HL high, blower max, start engine and idle in N.
Test volts engine block or Alt to the body common post for the ground strap/PCM. Max 75 mv.

-chart-
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
7,806 Posts
Faulty TPS will NOT cause your problem. Dont waste money throwing parts at the problem.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
62 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
I would do an electric test before any long trip. As below.

Battery cable/wiring check
This should take about 5-10 minutes.
Tools. Digital VM, range 200MV to 2.0V.
Hood open.
  1. Key on (not start) Blower on high, lights high beam.
  2. Probe leads, Pos battery post to mega fuse (or older cars use post on fuse box) Not the cable ends, but, post to post to bridge the cable.
  3. Volts range ~100 mv or less. ( 0.10V or less)
  4. Neg bat post to engine metal 50 mv or less.
  5. Neg bat post to body metal 100 mv or less.
On the pos side, high reading = bad cable, or ends not good connection.
On the body ground (fender) high reading = bad cable or ends not good connection.
If you have a high number, then measure one step at a time; that is post to clamp, clamp to wire, wire to eyelet, eyelet to fender etc. Find the weak connection, and fix it.
On the negative side, the ground is split with one to the body, one to the engine block and then the ground strap from the block to the body near the passenger side firewall. Thus the body is double grounded. You need both. Engine strap to firewall is important as this is the ground to the PCM.
Ground strap test. Key off . Remove the battery ground to the fender from the fender. Turn HL on high beam. They should light normal. If not the ground strap from the block to the firewall/PCM post is bad. Clean the fender where the neg cable bolts on, put the ground cable back. Fix the ground strap. The ground strap keeps the PCM and engine block/Alt at the same ground level. When the engine is running, the negative current path is mostly engine block-ground strap to the body, bat cable to fender is secondary.
Alternate test of ground strap: HL high, blower max, start engine and idle in N.
Test volts engine block or Alt to the body common post for the ground strap/PCM. Max 75 mv.

-chart-
Thank you so much for taking the time - I will do it tomorrow evening and post an update
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
62 Posts
Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
I would do an electric test before any long trip. As below.

Battery cable/wiring check
This should take about 5-10 minutes.
Tools. Digital VM, range 200MV to 2.0V.
Hood open.
  1. Key on (not start) Blower on high, lights high beam.
  2. Probe leads, Pos battery post to mega fuse (or older cars use post on fuse box) Not the cable ends, but, post to post to bridge the cable.
  3. Volts range ~100 mv or less. ( 0.10V or less)
  4. Neg bat post to engine metal 50 mv or less.
  5. Neg bat post to body metal 100 mv or less.
On the pos side, high reading = bad cable, or ends not good connection.
On the body ground (fender) high reading = bad cable or ends not good connection.
If you have a high number, then measure one step at a time; that is post to clamp, clamp to wire, wire to eyelet, eyelet to fender etc. Find the weak connection, and fix it.
On the negative side, the ground is split with one to the body, one to the engine block and then the ground strap from the block to the body near the passenger side firewall. Thus the body is double grounded. You need both. Engine strap to firewall is important as this is the ground to the PCM.
Ground strap test. Key off . Remove the battery ground to the fender from the fender. Turn HL on high beam. They should light normal. If not the ground strap from the block to the firewall/PCM post is bad. Clean the fender where the neg cable bolts on, put the ground cable back. Fix the ground strap. The ground strap keeps the PCM and engine block/Alt at the same ground level. When the engine is running, the negative current path is mostly engine block-ground strap to the body, bat cable to fender is secondary.
Alternate test of ground strap: HL high, blower max, start engine and idle in N.
Test volts engine block or Alt to the body common post for the ground strap/PCM. Max 75 mv.

-chart-
I did the check - VM set on 2000m, on positive post to mega fuse indicated 230mv (which I understand is very high). Neg to engine-31. Neg to body -81. (which look normal, according to your indications).
I'll go ahead and look ate the connections and maybe get another cable from Advanced. I'll keep you updated.
Thank you for your help!
UPDATE - funny thing - I went out to fiddle with it some more, did the strap test and tightened all the cables, including the battery posts (they were fairly tight but I could tighten them quite some more). Did the test again (3 times to make sure) and the positive reads 46mv now, with the high beams and blower on 4. Could that have been it? And should I go ahead and replace the cable? Thank you!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,651 Posts
I did the check - VM set on 2000m, on positive post to mega fuse indicated 230mv (which I understand is very high). Neg to engine-31. Neg to body -81. (which look normal, according to your indications).
I'll go ahead and look ate the connections and maybe get another cable from Advanced. I'll keep you updated.
Thank you for your help!
UPDATE - funny thing - I went out to fiddle with it some more, did the strap test and tightened all the cables, including the battery posts (they were fairly tight but I could tighten them quite some more). Did the test again (3 times to make sure) and the positive reads 46mv now, with the high beams and blower on 4. Could that have been it? And should I go ahead and replace the cable? Thank you!
Common on all mine including the Lin Cont. See pic, note over 7X as much drop in the crimp as in the whole wire. And this is a rather clean looking crimp. I got 32 mv on my wagon after soldering my crimp.

-chart-
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
62 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Common on all mine including the Lin Cont. See pic, note over 7X as much drop in the crimp as in the whole wire. And this is a rather clean looking crimp. I got 32 mv on my wagon after soldering my crimp.

-chart-
Wow... I'll do the soldering this weekend when I'm at my in-laws... I guess I won't change the cable for now and I'll check it from time to time after I've soldered and verified all connections... It's unlikely that I'll post an update any time soon, given that it happens so rarely, but I'll bookmark the post and if I have any updates in a few months, I'll definitely write them here.
Again, thank you so much for taking the time to write all the details! May you have eternally perfect connections! :lol2:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,651 Posts
Wow... I'll do the soldering this weekend when I'm at my in-laws... I guess I won't change the cable for now and I'll check it from time to time after I've soldered and verified all connections... It's unlikely that I'll post an update any time soon, given that it happens so rarely, but I'll bookmark the post and if I have any updates in a few months, I'll definitely write them here.
Again, thank you so much for taking the time to write all the details! May you have eternally perfect connections! :lol2:
Pic. I soldered this one on the car. After soldering, dipped the work in household ammonia to kill any acid. Ammonia is a gas dissolved in water, it evaporates and leaves no residue.

Best of luck.

-chart-
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
62 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
UPDATE - I've replaced the battery connections and the loss dropped to 28mv and, just because I was at my in-laws and felt like fiddling with the car, I decided to replace the TPS, as I already had a new one. Besides the fact that those screws a real pain to remove (removed the throttle body completely to clean it and put it in a vise, removing the screws with vise grips), so, besides that, I had a surprise - the spring on the old TPS was almost non existent. Meaning that if I turned the inside part by hand, it wouldn't return to its original position, like the new one does. Anyway, maybe that had something to do with my problem, too.
The difference that I feel now is that when I step hard on the gas the engine doesn't take a second of hesitation before accelerating - before I thought that was normal, but it's much more responsive now.
Thank you for your input, guys!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
59 Posts
Might be the fuel pressure sensor going out.

2004 FORD TAURUS 3.0L V6 OHV Fuel Pressure Sensor | RockAuto

My '97 with the same engine as yours, had a similar issue, would just die every few months and then several times during the day. Would start right back up. I replaced the fuel injection pressure regulator and it solved the problem.

Part takes just a few minutes to replace. Be sure to release the pressure at the valve on the fuel rail and disconnect battery before removing old part.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,651 Posts
Might be the fuel pressure sensor going out.

2004 FORD TAURUS 3.0L V6 OHV Fuel Pressure Sensor | RockAuto

My '97 with the same engine as yours, had a similar issue, would just die every few months and then several times during the day. Would start right back up. I replaced the fuel injection pressure regulator and it solved the problem.

Part takes just a few minutes to replace. Be sure to release the pressure at the valve on the fuel rail and disconnect battery before removing old part.
The fuel pressure sensor/module began in Bulls in '02 and later. And one year only in '00. '01 one year only with nothing on the fuel rail, special one year only fuel filter. '99 and earlier used a fuel pressure relief return and return line with the relief on the fuel rail.
Fuel pressure sensor/module is robust and very few fail. Fuel pumps fails common on many years. With sensor/module intermittent fuel pumps fail. Had 2 do that.

-chart-
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
62 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
Might be the fuel pressure sensor going out.

2004 FORD TAURUS 3.0L V6 OHV Fuel Pressure Sensor | RockAuto

My '97 with the same engine as yours, had a similar issue, would just die every few months and then several times during the day. Would start right back up. I replaced the fuel injection pressure regulator and it solved the problem.

Part takes just a few minutes to replace. Be sure to release the pressure at the valve on the fuel rail and disconnect battery before removing old part.
Thank you, I'll do that too, just because it's easy and I want to be on the safe side :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
62 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
Final Update

It's January 2018 now and haven't had a problem ever since the last post. I did nothing else but "updating" the electric connections and replacing the TPS, as you can read in the thread. One of those or both of those interventions solved the problem. Thank you everyone!:)
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Top