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Went by the Ford dealer to get a Motorcraft air filter no one else sell one, i also asked why they charge so much more for their oil filters compared to Walmart and auto parts stores. They told me that there are so many counterfeit oil filter out there that is why they are cheaper. Has anyone heard this before ?
 

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just go to rockauto.com. They sell the genuine Motorcraft filter for a lot less than the dealers. There are no counterfeit oil filters.
 

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Went by the Ford dealer to get a Motorcraft air filter no one else sell one, i also asked why they charge so much more for their oil filters compared to Walmart and auto parts stores. They told me that there are so many counterfeit oil filter out there that is why they are cheaper. Has anyone heard this before ?
how much is the filter at the dealership? I just got one for $4 at AZ

and chances are that if you do get a counterfeit filter it won't be from walmart or any big name store
 

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While I think the dealer charges too much, the OEM filter is by far the best bang for your buck. Allow me to explain.

The purpose of an oil filter is to protect the engine. It keeps small particles of dirt, metal, etc from getting to the parts of the engine under the most stress, parts like rod and main bearings, the valve train, etc. These components can be damaged by a single spec of dust getting caught in an oil gallery or into the bearing itself.

Many cheap oil filters do not offer the correct protect on several fronts. For starters, some filters go into bypass mode far to easily. When the filter is in bypass, the oil is not being filters, or worse, with some bypass designs, the oil has to flow past the media before it reaches the bypass, which means that gunk previously trapped in the filter can be washed loose and make it through the bypass. Some filters can shed small fibers from the filter media, which means the filter that is supposed to protect the engine is actually endangering the engine. Some filters lack the anti-drainback valve, which is meant to ensure that the oil galleries are full of oil at startup to minimize startup wear. Up to 98% of the wear to your engine occurs at startup, so the anti-drainback is very important to keep that to a minimum.

The Motorcraft filter was designed for the car, and so it meets all the requirements. Its bypass operates at the correct pressure, it uses the highest quality media, it has the proper anti-drainback valve, the bypass is at the inlet. The quality you get for the money is almost unbeatable, and there is no guesswork about its correctness.

Have I had engine damage from a cheap filter before? Yes. On my Mazda pickup I used to have, the engine began ticking within 15 minutes of a oil and filter change, where a Fram filter was used. Replaced filter with a better quality brand, ticking became less pronounced, but it ticked from that day on.

Motorcraft would be my first choice, the WIX would be my #2 choice. The WIX are also sold as the NAPA Gold line. Purolator are not a bad choice either. I would stay away from Fram, STP, and actually Bosch too.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
That makes sense, i thought it hard to believe that any major parts store or Walmart would do that. The dealer charged me $20 for the air filter and wanted $7 for the oil. I have ordered from RockAuto before, their prices were good but sent me the wrong part or had to get my parts from multiple wherehouses and the shipping took away all my savings.
 

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Purolator are not a bad choice either. I would stay away from ... actually Bosch too.
Especially when Motorcraft is made by Purolator. And Bosch too is made by Purolator - based on PureONE.

I tend to go to original source when I buy parts that I KNOW that Motorcraft doesn't make them, just slaps an oval label on somebody'e else knowledge. Like is the case with their spark plugs (Autolite), filters (Purolator), oxygen sensors (Bosch), wheel bearings (Timken)...
 

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I'm 10,000 miles into a 25,000 mile interval oil change with AMSOIL full synthetic and their best filter. (Supposedly a step above WIX) So far, the oil looks slightly light-brown, but I can see through it easily.

Running Mobil1 full synthetic with the Motorcraft FL-400S filter, I would have black oil by 5-6,000 miles when I changed it. (Lab results came back saying it was still good, but how it looks has to mean something right?)

The only thing that burns me about Motorcraft's filters are that they shortened my filter by about an inch within the last year or so. Same model and same price, but the box and filter are shorter than they used to be. They say that it still meets the specs, but "shorter" means "less filter media" and "less capacity for holding contaminants" before I plug up the filter and starve my engine for oil.

This isn't highly probable since I'm pretty sure I don't have any sludge problems, but I like to spend my money on things that aren't the result of cost-saving measures. (BTW, my engine has 245,000-ish miles on it at current so it needs all the help it can get.)

I would definitely stick with the shortened Motorcraft over a FRAM though. WIX would be my move if I wasn't going for 25,000 miles though.
 

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I would stay away from Fram, STP, and actually Bosch too.
I'm guessing your negative feelings for the Bosch filters probably stem from when they had a licensing agreement with Champion Labs to manufacture and distribute filters under the Bosch name. That agreement expired in '99 and most of the back stock was gone by '03. Since that time Purolator has made the Bosch branded filters and the quality has improved dramatically. If you cut open a Bosch Premium oil filter, a PowerFlo oil filter, a Purolator Pure One oil filter and a Motorcraft oil filter you'll see that at the moment they are all but identical.

WIX would be my move if I wasn't going for 25,000 miles though.
Who do you think makes most of AMSOIL's filters? :) (The filter media is different, but the design is the same.)

99% of the oil filters on the market in the US for non-commercial vehicles are made by one of four companies: Champion Labs, Dana (Wix), Purolator and Honeywell (Fram). Each of these companies make several grades of oil filters, but none the less almost any other brand of filter on the shelves is a re-brand of one of these filters.

The Honeywell filters are absolute junk. They are made about as cheaply as possible. I could write an entire post about the poor construction and engineering, but just the fact that the internal seals are made out of RUBBER COATED CARDBOARD instead of solid rubber to save costs should scare anyone with 2 brain cells off. I hope I don't upset anyone that's bought into years of Fram marketing, but marketing is all these filters have going for them. The crappy, poorly assembled filter media is most likely clogged enough after 1,000 miles to go into bypass. If you change your oil every 5000 miles, that means that 80% of the time you might as well not have an oil filter. In addition to being called Fram, this junk is also sold as Pennzoil and Quaker State. Avoid at all costs.

The Dana, aka Wix filters are by far the best of the commonly available brands. Best filter media, best seals, stoutest construction and the only ones that use coil type bypass springs. If you're not running a good synthetic that can hold up to 10k mile plus change intervals though they're probably not worth the cost for most people. The Purolator filters aren't far behind. The Premium Plus is their best, but the Pure One (aka Bosch Premium, PowerFlo and MOTORCRAFT) is still a great filter and can be had for a bargain. Most of the Champion filters aren't bad but aren't great either. These are also sold as STP and most house brands. Champion does make some awesome filters that are sold under the Champ, Mobil 1 and K&N brands, but if you're willing to spend that much just buy the WIX.

This was all just a long way of saying buy a Motorcraft filter at Wal-Mart, change your oil at the recommended intervals and never look back. If you're going to run a good synthetic at extended intervals though, buy the WIX or something like the AMSOIL ea filter. They're worth the money. FWIW, my '92 Honda CB750 has had nothing but AMSOIL synthectic and WIX filters every 3k miles since the break-in oil came out. She's at 178k miles, not a single bolt on the engine has ever been touched and she'll still hit 125 MPH before my Bull hits 55 MPH. Even the clutch is original. Take into account that she turns almost 5k RPM at 70 MPH with a frequently hit 12k RPM limit, she's air-cooled and her tranny and clutch share the engine oil. This is like going a million miles in a car.
 

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99% of the oil filters on the market in the US for non-commercial vehicles are made by one of four companies: Champion Labs, Dana (Wix), Purolator and Honeywell (Fram). Each of these companies make several grades of oil filters, but none the less almost any other brand of filter on the shelves is a re-brand of one of these filters.

The Honeywell filters are absolute junk. They are made about as cheaply as possible. I could write an entire post about the poor construction and engineering, but just the fact that the internal seals are made out of RUBBER COATED CARDBOARD instead of solid rubber to save costs should scare anyone with 2 brain cells off. I hope I don't upset anyone that's bought into years of Fram marketing, but marketing is all these filters have going for them. The crappy, poorly assembled filter media is most likely clogged enough after 1,000 miles to go into bypass. If you change your oil every 5000 miles, that means that 80% of the time you might as well not have an oil filter. In addition to being called Fram, this junk is also sold as Pennzoil and Quaker State. Avoid at all costs.

The Dana, aka Wix filters are by far the best of the commonly available brands. Best filter media, best seals, stoutest construction and the only ones that use coil type bypass springs. If you're not running a good synthetic that can hold up to 10k mile plus change intervals though they're probably not worth the cost for most people. The Purolator filters aren't far behind. The Premium Plus is their best, but the Pure One (aka Bosch Premium, PowerFlo and MOTORCRAFT) is still a great filter and can be had for a bargain. Most of the Champion filters aren't bad but aren't great either. These are also sold as STP and most house brands. Champion does make some awesome filters that are sold under the Champ, Mobil 1 and K&N brands, but if you're willing to spend that much just buy the WIX.

This was all just a long way of saying buy a Motorcraft filter at Wal-Mart, change your oil at the recommended intervals and never look back. If you're going to run a good synthetic at extended intervals though, buy the WIX or something like the AMSOIL filter.
Totally agree. This should be a sticky on the main section, not burried here.
Maybe a sticky with "WHO ARE MANUFACTURERS OF MOTORAFT PARTS", since now and then I feel that some people think they are made in secret alien laboratories (Area 51 maybe?) :)
I already said above who makes their spark plugs, filters, oxygen sensors and wheel bearings.
 

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One thing to point out about the Purolator and the Motorcraft filters. The best Purolator you can buy actually is not the same filter that you get when you buy the Motorcraft. The Motorcraft uses slightly different materials, and the bypass opens at a higher pressure. The Motorcraft spec filter that Purolator makes is not sold to the public, it is only sold through the Motorcraft label. Not saying that the Purolators are not good enough, just saying they are not completely identical even though they come from the same factory.

I would agree, a sticky on who makes the Motorcraft parts would be a great thing, particularly on parts where it makes a huge difference.

Most of the cooling system and AC system parts (condensers, radiators, heater cores, AC hose assemblies) are made by AC Delco. Not sure who makes the OE thermostat, but every aftermarket brand I have tried so far has had issues, and fails to open at the proper temperature, most open way prematurely. I have not tried AC Delco yet, but Stant, MotorRad, house brand, etc, I've tried most of them, and all of them open prematurely, and most of them caused issues with the bleeding process, and most of them failed prematurely. When I use the genuine Motorcraft, they last far longer (to date none of the replacements I have installed on my own vehicles have failed), they bleed the air out properly, and they open at the correct temperature.
 

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The Motorcraft uses slightly different materials, and the bypass opens at a higher pressure.
And that is not always good. Older engines, with bigger wear/gaps in the bearings need at higher rpm's all the flow that they can get. A higher pressure on bypass means higher friction losses (egineers call them higher head for the pump). Than means lower flow for a given pump and rpm - this is with the valve "open"!!! If you want an analogy, that valve rubs a higher "power" from the power avail by oil pump at that given rpm.

Less filtration at throtlle wide open? You got all you need while you idling at stoplights. All the oil in the pan gets recirculated fully anyway in 1 minute...
If you don't have enough pressure, better filtration won't prevent bearings to melt away.

Purolator knows what they are doing. If a client comes with some crazy request (that will help the client in the warranty period, but screw the owners with older engines) they will comply and deliver the requested product.

On both my Fords (over 100k miles) I have slight issues with Motorcraft filters that I don't have with PureOne.
 

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One thing to point out about the Purolator and the Motorcraft filters. The best Purolator you can buy actually is not the same filter that you get when you buy the Motorcraft. The Motorcraft uses slightly different materials, and the bypass opens at a higher pressure. The Motorcraft spec filter that Purolator makes is not sold to the public, it is only sold through the Motorcraft label. Not saying that the Purolators are not good enough, just saying they are not completely identical even though they come from the same factory.

I would agree, a sticky on who makes the Motorcraft parts would be a great thing, particularly on parts where it makes a huge difference.
I can't comment on the recent revision of the Motorcraft FL-400S as I haven't cut one open yet, but the only visual difference between the older one and a Purolator Pure One PL20195 was a slightly stiffer bypass spring. Looking at the oil flow and pressure requirements of the motors that specify the FL-400S, the only reason I can see for the higher bypass pressure is to extend oil change intervals. If you change your oil regularly and your engine is clean, there shouldn't be a significant performance difference. I use the Motorcraft filter simply because the quality is good for how cheap you can get them, even compared to the equivalent Pure One. If I could get a WIX filter for $5-6 without having to buy a case of 12 to do it, I'd never buy another Motorcraft even at $3.

As far as the Motorcraft FL-820S and the Purolator Pure One PL24691, there doesn't seem to be a difference at all. A lot of the talk from manufacturers about "different filter medias" doesn't seem to hold water much better than a multi-million dollar ad campaign making Fram a good filter. In many cases, even if the media actually is different it isn't for the better.
 

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"Different is not necessary better". Haha, that works for everything in live. "Change" is not always good. Hmmm, I am talking about politics here :D
 

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And that is not always good. Older engines, with bigger wear/gaps in the bearings need at higher rpm's all the flow that they can get. A higher pressure on bypass means higher friction losses (egineers call them higher head for the pump). Than means lower flow for a given pump and rpm - this is with the valve "open"!!! If you want an analogy, that valve rubs a higher "power" from the power avail by oil pump at that given rpm.

Less filtration at throtlle wide open? You got all you need while you idling at stoplights. All the oil in the pan gets recirculated fully anyway in 1 minute...
If you don't have enough pressure, better filtration won't prevent bearings to melt away.

Purolator knows what they are doing. If a client comes with some crazy request (that will help the client in the warranty period, but screw the owners with older engines) they will comply and deliver the requested product.

On both my Fords (over 100k miles) I have slight issues with Motorcraft filters that I don't have with PureOne.
Point noted, but I'm going to have to completely disagree with you. Allow me to explain.

For starters, you say older engines have bigger wear gaps in the bearings. Let us examine that statement for a moment. How much bigger of a gap are we talking about here, how much wear?

For starters, lets ask ourselves a simple question, when the engine is running, do the bearing surfaces ever actually touch? They may touch briefly at startup, but once you have oil pressure, the bearings never actually touch. As a result, no contact means no wear. Over 98% of all the wear to the bearings occurs as the starter motor turns the engine before the oil pressure builds. Even at that, the wear that occurs is very minute. How minute?

To answer that question, I'll give you a few more facts about bearings. New bearings come with a coating on the bearing surface that is extremely thin and extremely fragile. This final coating is not essential to the bearings function. So how this is this coating? Well, this coating can still be found on the bearings of some engines even after hundreds of thousands of miles. I just dismantled my project engine, a 2.3L engine from a '94 Mazda B2300. The engine had failed due to the previous owner allowing it to run extremely lean and ping until a piston failed. The engine had 287,238 miles on it when I removed it. Despite this, this fine layer was still present in parts of the bearings. So how much thinner have the bearings worn after all those miles? Well, by measuring with a micrometer, it is impossible to tell the difference between the new bearings and the old ones.

The bearings are composed of layers of different metals. These metals are soft so that they can absorb small particles that might travel in the oil so that they do not scratch the crank. The primary layer is a thin allow that is extremely soft. This layer is also very thin? How thin? Try 0.0006 inches. That is incredibly thin. If this layer wears through, the bearing has failed. On my project engine, only one bearing had this layer wear though, the cylinder with the piston damage. The shockwaves of knocking and detonating can cause the oil film that protect the bearing to monetarily break down, allowing brief metal to metal contact.

So in other words, your first argument based upon bearing wear is completely invalid. So in other words, there is virtually no difference in the clearances between the bearing and journal of a new engine versus an older engine.

So lets move on to other arguments. The valves and lifters also need oil pressure to lubricate properly. These components will typically starve of oil faster in the event of a pressure loss, but they are not under as much strain. On cars with hydraulic lifters, they also need the pressure and flow. However, these parts rely on the same basic principles to lubricate, and also float on a thin oil film. However, the pressure from the vale spring exerts a greater force over a smaller area, and the lifters typically roll or wipe across another metal surface in a different way than a bearing does. A bearing floats, but the cam lobes are not bearings. They more or less get an oil spray. These parts are protected by film strength of the lubricant alone. While oil chemistry can vary, the film strength of the oil itself is not adequate to perform this task, often lubricating metals like zinc and molybdenum provide the lubrication for those parts. Oil pressure is not even a consideration for the cam lobes. Same applies to the piston rings agains the cylinder, those are lubricates and cooled by an oil spray, but it is a metallic film that does the real lubricating to those parts. So the pressure of the oil is not even relevant to those parts.

So my point is, filtration is more important than flow. The oil pump delivers far more pressure and flow than the engine needs so long as the pump works correctly. So long as you have enough pressure, the bearings will undergo almost no wear at all, and the other parts that do wear are not affected by oil pressure or flow, but rather on the add packs in the oil.

If a filter goes into bypass prematurely, you have a greater risk of small particles that can damage the bearings. Motorcraft filters are designed to open at the right pressure, and will filter the oil effectively most of the time. Many aftermarket filters spend too much time in bypass mode in my opinion.

While it is true that more pressure means more resistance to the pump, and that in turn can reduce performance and fuel economy, however, the difference is difficult to measure outside a lab. In the real world, the weight of oil you use, or even the wear in the bearings of your accessories exceeds the effect that the specific bypass pressure is gonna have on your performance.

So on to your second argument. If you don't have enough pressure. If you don't have enough pressure, you have bigger problems than what type of oil filter you use. You are either out of oil, have a failing pump, or something went through the filter in bypass mode and jammed into an oil gallery.

I do think the WIX filters are even higher quality than the OE Motorcraft filters. Price is the deciding factor there. The Napa GOLD filter is made by WIX too. But for the money, I find the Motorcraft filters are an excellent value, especially when you consider how long they run between needing to be replaced. 7500 miles is not an extended interval, that is what they are designed to last for, which interestingly enough, is also how long a good oil is supposed to last in the engine too. The 3000 mile interval is based on old school thought and is coined by quick lube places that make their living of you servicing your oil more often than necessary.

Myself, I run my cars 20,000 miles between oil changes (Royal Purple) and replace the filters at 10,000 miles. I run either Mobil1 extended life filters, genuine Motorcraft, or Royal Purple filters. All of these filters have additional media surface for better flow and more surface area, all of them have the higher speced bypass pressure, all of them have the proper anti-drainback valve. I'm not sure who actually makes the Royal Purple filter.

So far my UOA indicates that my strategy works for my driving habits. I have very low engine wear. I rack up enough miles, my work van has done 15,000 miles since June, and I have done a total of 43,000 miles between 4 vehicles since Jan 1st of this year.
 

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So in other words, your first argument based upon bearing wear is completely invalid. So in other words, there is virtually no difference in the clearances between the bearing and journal of a new engine versus an older engine.
So all the engines with low oil pressure out there are just... what? I have one too. The wear is not necessarily in the main bearings, can be in camshaft. And that leads to need of higer flow. Leads to oil starvation at higher RPM - with Motorcraft filters.
I can hear my Explorer cams "screaming" at over 3000 rpm with Motorcraft filter. Not so much with PureOne. I have attached a pressure port and gauge and I can see the difference.
Sure, I have only some 5psi at idle and 20 at 2000rpm. 40 with PureOne and 35 with Motorcraft at 4000rpm. With new pump. And I need all the pressure I can get, cannot afford to loose that pressure for a fictive "better filtration". Which doesn't happen - my oil get as filtered as yours. At stoplights, on highway... that is 90% of driving time.
As I said, engines that have wear have different requirements than the new ones. And the argument that the media is better is a fallacy. Open the filters. Watch a video on youtube if nothig else.
 

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Motorcraft filters are designed to open at the right pressure, and will filter the oil effectively most of the time. Many aftermarket filters spend too much time in bypass mode in my opinion.
You made some very valid points in your previous post, but I think you're putting entirely too much stock in the Motorcraft filter bypassing at the "right" pressure. What is the right pressure? Is it engine dependent? Is it universal?

Let's look at the Motorcraft FL1A oil filter. Assuming your Aerostar is a 4.0L, it is the factory specified filter. Your argument is that a Motorcraft filter is specifically designed for the bypass pressure needs of your engine. Here's the problem. It is also the specified filter for dozens of other Ford engines made over a 40 year time span and they're not by any means similar. How similar are the oiling needs of a 4.0L V6 and a 460 Big Block? When you look at flow requirements, you're not even in the same ballpark. Sure enough though, the FL1A is the factory specified filter for them both. I can assure you that Ford does not build engines around the specifications of the oil filter, so this eliminates the theory that the bypass pressure is designed for a specific engine. Even the 7,500 RPM Boss 302 that pushes 90 PSI oil pressure at the red line uses the FL1A.

In reality, "proper" bypass pressure is dependent on the filter media being used. Every filter will have different requirements. Unfortunately there's no free lunch. The better the filtration, the lower the bypass pressure needs to be. (Please note though that I am by no means saying that all filters with a low bypass pressure have great filtration.)

No matter what filter you use, it will bypass during start-up. The viscosity of 10W-30 at even 75 degrees is well over 100. The pressure created at that viscosity would blow up even the best of filters if they didn't bypass. Your oil's going to have to get to 150-200 degrees before any filter is going to come out of bypass. That takes 5-10 minutes on a cold engine. Oil temps don't rise anywhere near as fast as coolant temps. There are going to be times when you're circulating unfiltered oil no matter which filter you use. It's unavoidable unless you pre-heat your oil. A filter with a higher bypass pressure will start filtering sooner, but the difference isn't huge.

That being said, what is important is to filter your oil the best you can while the filter isn't in bypass. Everything's a trade-off though. The smaller the microns the filter catches, the quicker it clogs. Also, those smaller particles can be forced through the media with less pressure so the bypass pressure needs to be lower. Assuming you're using a quality filter, if it's going into bypass during normal operation it's time to change it. Do you need an ultra-low micron filter to keep your engine healthy? Obviously not. If you do choose to use one, should it have a lower bypass pressure? Absolutely. Are the filters you mentioned using the best filtration you can get? Not by any means. Are they a great choice for extended change intervals? You bet.

If the Motorcraft filter is meeting your needs that's great. As I mentioned previously, I use them as well and have had no problems with many 150k+ engines. That doesn't mean a filter with a lower bypass pressure isn't going to do as good of a job though, as long as that low bypass is there for a reason and not just to compensate for poor quality. If it has a better filtration material it will do a better job. It's just going to need to be changed more frequently. The PureOne is a perfect example of this. Would you want you use a PureOne at 10k mile intervals? Of course not. But as I've said many times already, everything is a trade off. Once again though, I am not by any means saying that a cheap filter with a low bypass pressure simply to compensate for it's cheap filter media is a good idea. I am referring to products like the PureOne that have a low bypass pressure due to their very low micron filtration material. And as a note, the PureOne's bypass pressure isn't that much lower than the Motorcraft's. The WIX's isn't either. Both offer very low micron filtration.

Just as a side note, one of the things I love about WIX filters is that they have a progressive bypass spring. Even as the filter starts to clog, it doesn't go into full bypass right away. Brilliant :)
 

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AdvanceAuto usually has Motorcraft oil filters in stock

As long as you are not using FRAM you are probably OK. Go on Youtube.com and see what various filters look like after use and cut open.
FRAM is the WORST. Paper not even connected at the final pleat and paper end caps. AC Delco has gotten cheaper too. New style is a lot cheaper built than the older ones.
 

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The Motorcraft is the same as the Bosch, but as far as I can learn on the net, the filter media is the same as the Purolator Classic, whereas the Purolator premium Pure One uses the fully synthetic media like the Bosch. The Bosch is also heavier than the Pure One using a thicker case and base plate material similar to the Mobil One filter. A feature that might be of concern if you were to race your Taurus on the track, which you are probably not going to do (how often do you rev the old Vulcan to 8,000rpm).

In other words, the Purolator Pure One is the best value for the money and the second choice would be the Motorcraft which is a quality filter with a decent filter media (metal end caps, well assembled with extra pleats), but not quite the filtering ability of the synthetic material used in the Pure One and most other higher priced filters. For around six bucks at places like Mejier, the Pure One is a good deal.
 

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Great comments about oil and filters in this thread. But I am surprised at the long oil change intervals you guys do. I change oil and filter at 3000 miles. I understand that using synthetic oil this may be overkill but one thing I have learned that clean fluids extend engine life. I do understand that oil does not "wear out" but does keep dirt in solution. I know that when I drain Mobil One from our vehicles at 3000 miles it is amazingly dirty. Maybe it will go a lot longer, but for $45.00 for oil and filter, it is a pretty inexpensive way to keep clean fluid in the engine. So anyone can do what they feel is best, but I will continue my oil change intervals. BTW, I have used Purolator, Mobil One, and Motorcraft filters for more then 10 years and have never had a filter failure or oil related problem from any of them.
 
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