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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hello Newby Here

Just wanted to say Hi, Looks like a great site so far, just starting to look at things here.

My Daughters 98 Taurus SE cooling system was full of rust, (3.0L 2 Valve Push Rod Engine) I just could not get the cooling system to clean up no how much I flushed it out and installed new antifreeze.

I had to change the water pump because it was overheating and it's heater would stop working when you would pull up to a signal, I was truly amazed to see the water pump impellers completely GONE, I use to be a Mechanic at a Ford dealership, but never saw anything like this.

I am a long time Diesel mechanic and have seen cooling system filters on them for many years, I decided to fabricate a mount and install a cooling system filter on the ol'e 98 Taurus. it has kept the antifreeze green for a long time now, it took the brown rust color out very quickly too.

I guess this is a very common problem on the 3.0 2 valve engine, I have noticed that when I go to wrecking yards and look at the Taurus and Sables with the 3.0L engine, every one of them are really rusty in and around the coolant tank area too.

Being around Diesel engines for many years I recognized the damage to the water pump form Cavitation Erosion on the water pump and it's impellers.

How have you All dealt with this problem?

Thanks,

Dusty
 

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normally the members with vulcans suggest fluid changes pretty often every year or two at most. and it seems to do pretty well as long as it is kept up. and so long as it has been flushed really well if there were already rust issues.
 

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When impeller blades are gone or coolant is rusty, I would first suspect improper coolant or a small leak.
 

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The Key to a clean cooling system is the premixed 50/50 coolant to fill your system with, do not add water from the tap to top off and you will be fine. My cooling sytem is in GREAT shape and I have no rust issues because of that one simple rule. Tap water has minerals in it and that is what causes the rust build-up. While flushes help if your flushing it with tap water you will run into the issue all the time or have to flush it sooner than you need to.

Here is the Wiki, Look Under Applications.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
Hello Sheila

I went to a dismantler for large Trucks, got a coolant filter base and a new 4070 filter from Napa.

(DO NOT get the type with the PELLET in it, just a 4070 cooling system filter without the Additive Pellet, these PELLET filters are for use on the Big Diesel Engine Cooling systems that hold SEVERAL GALLONS of Antifreeze, not just "QUARTS")

Fabed a mount to put the filter assy between the coolant tank and the strut tower.
Plumbed/Interrupted the coolant line from the top of the engine to the coolant tank through the filter assy, then to coolant tank.

Don't plumb the line from the RH top of the radiator into the filter, you need it for an air bleed of the radiator.

The filter will filter everything from "27" Microns up (about the thickness of alpaca hair) as it gets clogged it will filter even better until it clog's completely (NO FLOW)

You must check it frequently at first, probably change it a 300 to 500 miles at first, then when system cleans up, change the filter once a year, but you "MUST" keep checking it for flow I.E. "IT GETS HOT" during normal operation of the vehicle/engine.

If the filter does not get "HOT" it MUST be changed ASAP to re-establish proper coolant flow for the engine cooling and provide the Air Bleed to keep the engine cooling system operating efficently.

You MUST KEEP CHECKING THE FILTER EVERY TIME YOU OPEN THE HOOD, It Must be warm to HOT to the touch every time you check it (if the engine has been running more that 10 minutes) at first start up it will get warm gradgually, then hotter as the engine runs, it is normal for it to feel warm to hot on the top and cool on the bottom of the filter, that is untill the engine gets fully warmed up to normal operating temperature.

Hope this helps

Dusty

P.S.

The reason the water pump deteriorates is because of cavitation erosion in the cooling system, very common in big diesel engines. the cavitation erosion eats up the water pump impeller blades and deposits the metal into the cooling system to RUST and turn the coolant brown.
 

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The reason the water pump deteriorates is because of cavitation erosion in the cooling system, very common in big diesel engines. the cavitation erosion eats up the water pump impeller blades and deposits the metal into the cooling system to RUST and turn the coolant brown.
I just want to be clear here, when you introduce water that has minerals in it the same thing happens, just quicker than natural cavitation erosion between the disimilar metals in the Vulcan engine. and a Diesel engine is not comparable to a Gas engine in a lot of aspects, the cooling system on a diesel uses specific coolant. I guess you could use Diesel specific Coolant in your vehicle to reduce the Cavitation erosion even further as the Diesel coolant has addatives in it to protect against it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
Hello All

I have worked on Class 8 and 7 Diesel Engine equipped trucks for more than 30 years, all we ever used was the green antifreeze (I.E. Prestone, Etc.)

I did work at one place that always used test strips to check the PH level on the coolant, and added a supplement to bring it into proper range.

I have never used a Diesel Specific Antifreeze at all on any vehicle. That's not to say that they are not out there, it's just that I personally have never had an occasion to use them.

I still believe that a cooling system filter is a good idea to keep the the cooling system contamination to a minimum.

Straight out of the bottle 50/50 antifreeze mix and Distilled Water are also very good ideas and I practice this myself.

If and or you flush out the cooling system most people use plain water not distilled water, then on top of that I'll bet that almost none of the people pull the engine block drain plugs to get ALL the flushing liquid our of the engines before adding back the proper coolant.

When I refer to flushing I am saying the Chemical Types that will help loosen and remove the Rust that is in the cooling systems, If you just drain and refill the cooling system with more newer antifreeze that is just a change of Antifreeze, and if you don't pull the block drains you are not changing ALL the antifreeze, only supplementing it with some fresh antifreeze.

I will say again, the ONLY TAURUS'S that I have seen in roaming the wrecking yards with RUSTY cooling systems have only been the ones with the 3.0L OHV (Pushrod Engines).

The Cars with the 3.8L Engines look pretty much as normal as Other vehicle engines cooing systems.

Not trying to ruffle any feathers, just trying to say that a cooling system filter has worked very well for me on my Taurus 3.0L OHV, Pushrod Engine.

Take Care,

Dusty

P.S.

The Erosion of the water pump is so bad that FORD came out with and new style Water Pump that has a Cover over the impellers to make the pump more efficient, they also made a new heater water manifold to redirect the water flow to help stop or reduce some of the cavitation within the water pump, I don't think dissimilar metals is the problem as much as the aeriated water introduced into the water pump is the main problem and causing the cavitation problem.

There is a FORD TSB for this problem (it was for the 98 and older Tauru's) It list's the NEW part numbers, I got the parts and installed them, but I still had the rusting problems, I pulled the new style water pump and it too had serious erosion of the impeller, so that AND the cooling system contamination is the main reasons I installed the cooling system filter.

I still see the rust problem on even newer 3.0L OHV vehicles using this engine, BESIDES THE TAURUS, so the problem is still with us it seems.

Again,

Take Care
 

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Any time I touch my cooling system, I use motorcraft gold coolant and go to cvs and get distilled water. The dealerships I've worked at always use either bulk premixed(good) or pipe water(bad). But the guys I work with make fun of me because I'm anal about the right stuff in my engine. 95k on my engine, at 65 I did a complete flush with a new tstat, just for maintenance, at 90 it got a new water pump (leaking), both times it got 50/50 motorcraft gold and distilled water. oh, and my car is an 2005, which doesn't have the horribly designed cooling system.... unlike the gen3's. yeah, using tap water is bad, but if your engine is flushed with tap water every 30 or 50k miles you won't have a problem... unless it's a gen3 vulcan. It's the design of the cooling system, that's 99percent of the issue. The water pump cant be blamed on bad maintenance if the owner isn't aware of the design flaw. The average owner doesn't checked their fluids, and if they do they maybe check the level, not condition. They let it go 50 or 60k miles without a flush and boom, they need a new water pump, tstat, heater core, flush... at the ford dealer we called it "the package". This reminds me.... I gotta flush my transmission.
 

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Thanks Dusty, That's good information. Please don't misunderstand I am not disagreeing with you. I noticed when I replaced my water pump (This is the Original equipment with 136K on it) That the new water pump I put on did have a different impeller design. I just found different in my Vulcan and proper maintenance prevented the rust, Junkyard vehicles are not run and started and stagnant coolant or water in the cooling system could deffinately explain the accelerated rust issue.

I had 0 rust and I have 136K, granted I flush it every 30K to keep up on the coolant system. The Vulcan Deffinately has an issue with rust build up and that's no secret on the forums here, but when you see High rust content it means at some point maintenance was not done like it should have been. The heater core is a perfect example of this in this vehicle, nobody thinks to flush out the block, the heater core and the radiator seperately to get all the crap out of them.
 

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What's the difference between the vulcan in a 2000 vs a gen III vulcan ? They are the same engine, the only difference they had as far as I know was the first vulcans had an actual distributor, then they went to a centralized coil system and finaly COP system. The Vulcan internally is the same. I may be wrong?? but I just don't see any other differences.
 

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I can't remember what exactly causes the problem. Something about the cooling system and air pocket, or something... lol, i don't know, I used to know, maybe someone here can explain it. But either way, the gen4's don't have the rusty coolant problem due to the improvement in the cooling system.. whatever it is.
 

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Here's something I found not long ago. I apologise for not knowing where it came from or who wrote it. It may have come from this forum, but I didn't save the source. (I didn't write this, but it sounds interesting and viable)

Here is an overlooked problem that will cause rust in coolant and destroy heater cores:

********************

Test For Voltage in Coolant

If you have a DMM, check DC volts by groudning one lead to the block or a known good ground and stick the other lead in the coolant.

anything below .5 volts is ok, .5 or above, you need a flush.......[/b]


Sir:
Did you find this on your own? Or are you quoting an internet article that may or may not be true?
[/b][/quote]

That's what I learned in school.

There's a chance I got the voltages wrong, but I don't think I did.

Anything below .5 volts is fine. .5 volts means you need to get a flush, .7v or above means you NEED a flush NOW.

Over time, the antifreeze will become more acidic, and will cause more voltage. You are flowing coolant through more than one type of metal. So it's basically a weak battery: 2 dissimilar metals suspended in an acid = a battery cell. As the voltage gets higher, more electrolysis will occur, and any ferrous metals (or is it non-ferrous? I may have the words mixed) will start to flake off and it ends up clogging the radiator and the heater core.

**********************
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 · (Edited)
Hello Again

Here is the TSB for the rust colored coolant. It's Number is TSB 01-11-6

It is primarily for the 96-98 3.0L OHV engine for the Taurus and Sables

It is "15 Pages long", might save it for furtur reference.

Hope this helps

Dusty

P.S.

The voltage test above is a very good test, when they frist started using aluminum parts on engines there was a very severe Electrolysis problem with the aluminum parts, it would eat holes in the parts quickly. This was before the better types of Antifreeze found today.

Some times you just have go back to the Basics to figure things out it seems.

P.S.S.

If you use a chemical type cooling system cleaner you may invite problems you don't want!

When I first cleaned my cooling system the core/freeze plug on the head started to leak, and wouldn't yor know it, it was the one behind the Alternater/Power Steering Pump aluminum casting that they mount to. These are a Bugger Bear to get out of the way because they have a long stud that attaches them to the head.

A Little Trick for the Stud. since it has a nut, only the nut will come off and that is not enough to get the casting out of the way because it leaves the stud in the head.

The trick is to take a Chissel and really bugger up the threads on the stud before trying to remove the nut on the stud, after this procedure the damaged threads will bind up in the nut and cause the stud to come out like a regular BOLT about 99 Percent of the time, do this first "Before" loosening the other bolts, upon reinstallation the locked up nut will force the stud to screw into the head just like a bolt.

I changed All the Core/Freeze plugs when I pulled the engine earlier, the ones in the heads were the Worse Shape, they were severly pitted and were just about to start to leaking.

P.S.S.S.

If and When you replace core/freeze plugs, ONLY INSTALL BRASS ONES, they will not rust out.

Again, Take Care

Dusty
 

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The 2000 doesn't have that issue. Of course that doesn't mean you don't need to keep doing your maintenance.

I recently bought my daughter a 2000 SE w/ a 3.0 Vulcan. I have read on many people saying the 2000 and newer did not have this problem. Is that true? Did it start with a certain build date?

Prior to reading all the post, I just did a drain & fill of coolant, then when bragging to my wife how I detailed the engine she even commented on the coolant tank sludge.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 · (Edited)
Hello All

Just a quick Update.

Since I installed the cooling system filter, my Coolant/Antifreeze has stayed GREEN.

Seems to be working great, I love it.

Take Care

Dusty

P.S.

Don't know why the text got larger?
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 · (Edited)
Hello Again

On the coolant/surge tank Sludge Issues.

I tried everything I could, but could not get it clean inside and not look brown inside, I just replaced it with a new one form FORD, now it is clean looking like it should be.

With the cooling system filter I installed, I am not seeing any sludge of any kind inside the tank.

Take Care

Dusty

P.S.

I don't See pictures in the post's, is there some way I can post them, I will post a picture of my cooling system filter if anyone is interested.
 
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