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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
I trust Motorcraft more than I trust part store brands.

I have experienced air getting into the ABS unit and have fully experienced it do these exact symptoms

Wow really? Could you please describe your EXACT symptoms? My main symptom is braking taking too long to come to complete stop. Thanks!!
 

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Pedal travel would randomly be really close to the floor. Like uncomfortable close. Brake power was complete crap. I could only get them to lock up on chip n seal pavement (I want to slap the jackass that came up with that stuff).

One main symptom I noticed and there is no proof of it being a direct cause- my rear shoes wouldn't adjust like normal. It drove me up a wall. And I ended up driving another user up a wall too. After realizing I couldn't be without a car while the mechanic worked on it, I used a favor and took it to the dealership across the street. They had it two hours, asked me questions, and told me how to do the master cylinder and some tricks. They charged me $40 for 2 hours of work. Mostly because the service manager understood my frustration, and felt I shouldn't be "penalized for a situation I had nothing to do with that requires a $5,000 tool". This is the same dealership that does keys for $60. Needless to say where I get my oil changes done at.

Now IIRC the ABS unit controls some of what the proportioning valve used to. Which is why the things wouldn't adjust. They adjust now. Other thing that they noticed was the fluid was black. It's golden now.
 

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Clean fluid is a must with anti-lock brakes. Flushing brake fluid when a brake job is done is a must, to keep the system working correctly.
The proportioning valve controls the limits rear brake pressure, via ride height.
ABS keeps the wheels from locking by check the speed of the wheels and modulating the pressure (reducing) it, to a wheel that starts to spin slower than the others.
 

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Clean fluid is a must with anti-lock brakes. Flushing brake fluid when a brake job is done is a must, to keep the system working correctly.
For me it had been flushed twice by pressure bleeding by the shop that did the master cylinder. However they did not do an ABS module bleed. What happened was air got into the ABS module and didn't want to come out. And it would then travel into the lines during normal use. It's actually not that rare.

The proportioning valve controls the limits rear brake pressure, via ride height. ABS keeps the wheels from locking by check the speed of the wheels and modulating the pressure (reducing) it, to a wheel that starts to spin slower than the others.
The dealerships belief is that there is biasing going on at the ABS module. Gen 4's with ABS do not have a proportioning valve.
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
Pedal travel would randomly be really close to the floor. Like uncomfortable close. Brake power was complete crap. I could only get them to lock up on chip n seal pavement (I want to slap the jackass that came up with that stuff).

One main symptom I noticed and there is no proof of it being a direct cause- my rear shoes wouldn't adjust like normal. It drove me up a wall. And I ended up driving another user up a wall too. After realizing I couldn't be without a car while the mechanic worked on it, I used a favor and took it to the dealership across the street. They had it two hours, asked me questions, and told me how to do the master cylinder and some tricks.
K great thanks I will definitely try this. So all you/they really did was bleed out the ABS ? They did that with their scan tool? I just didn't follow all the details about the tricks they showed you, or something about the master cylinder? Thanks!
 

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Truth is I don't know for certain that there's a connection, but I definitely suspect it. And unlike what you might THINK I mean, it's not that the tight lug nuts are creating the bad braking; the bad braking is creating the tight lug nuts!! Let me explain; a while ago I replaced all brake components on the wheel end of things, and recently the master cylinder as well. But I'm still having poor braking and I can't figure out why. You can read about this issue in my other thread:

My Brakes Won't Give Me a Break

The reason I'm starting this thread is because I noticed the past several times I took off the wheels the lug nuts on the front two wheels were extremely, EXTREMELY tight. This might not be so weird, except for the fact that I tightened them previously each time, and I didn't tighten them anywhere CLOSE to that tight. I do this all the time, and this has never happened before. And the front ones were ALL tight. A couple of them were so tight that I literally almost could not get them off with a four way lug wrench, and I'm 6'5'' 270 pounds, never had this issue in the past. The bearing/hubs are relatively new too (installed them at the same time that I put in the new brakes and had all these issues, like six months ago). Can poor braking or bad (new) calipers or bad (new) rotors or SOMETHING cause this issue? Thanks!
I THINK you have something going!!!! Recently I thought my car needed an alignment so instead of taking it to the dealership I went to a side shop. Well... my car feels better but it's vibrating even more and the wheel feels even more loose. Friday- alignment done - Saturday car drives but something still isn't right - Sunday... ABS goes out. I drive it around and pump the brakes and thankfully it came back to life. I drive a Hybrid by the way. So then I take my car to have it looked at top and bottom... my friend replaces the lug nuts and my car hasn't drove this good in a couple years. My brakes are fine. The pads at least. I do need new tires and my friend cleared the ABS codes and if it comes on again... well that's the underlying problem. But you can't tell me torqued lug nuts and brake systems don't go together. They will but I'm not falling for it. The place that did my alignment will be reimbursing me.
 

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I THINK you have something going!!!! Recently I thought my car needed an alignment so instead of taking it to the dealership I went to a side shop. Well... my car feels better but it's vibrating even more and the wheel feels even more loose. Friday- alignment done - Saturday car drives but something still isn't right - Sunday... ABS goes out. I drive it around and pump the brakes and thankfully it came back to life. I drive a Hybrid by the way. So then I take my car to have it looked at top and bottom... my friend replaces the lug nuts and my car hasn't drove this good in a couple years. My brakes are fine. The pads at least. I do need new tires and my friend cleared the ABS codes and if it comes on again... well that's the underlying problem. But you can't tell me torqued lug nuts and brake systems don't go together. They will but I'm not falling for it. The place that did my alignment will be reimbursing me.
Congrats for your fix.
Lugs are torqued for a reason. Many shops run them up with air wrench and over torque them. If you are watching they run around with a torque wench and it always clicks. So they are not torquing them. Pic of my lug tools. Got 4 cars in my herd. My torque wrench is dedicated to lugs as the reverse on the ratchet does not work right. Reason it was sold for a cheap. My quarter inch impact will spin them off when loosened with the long flex handle and spin them back on and up to ~10#. Rest I do with hand, then the torque wrench to finalize.
-chart-
 

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