[jennings3]

Hello, I hope you can help. I need to keep driving this Vulcan 2002 Wagon. It wouldn't crank but started with a jump. Took it to the shop. The shop said that it needed an alternator, which was replaced today. He said that the alternator was outputting 15 volts. I paid $300 and got in the car, it wouldn't crank. Mechanic, "It's a coincidence," did some fiddling under the hood and kept getting Code B1352 "Ignition Key-in Circuit," (I researched that code and wasn't much on this site that applied to this situation). Later the shop called saying it was a GEM Module failure that can be repaired/replaced in the morning for $375. It sounds like it could use some more trouble shooting from what I've read. In the past the charge light would come on the dash after driving a while. I got a new battery about 3 months ago and the alternator tested good at that time. Sometimes the key is hard to turn or it goes in and out without locking. I sure wish that I could fix this myself if it's not too complicated or too heavy work. I can have it towed to my house and try. I am in a jam and can't spend more money right now. Can you please offer some advice? Thank you---

 

[Automender12345]

Sadly a simple test with a DC amp meter in the alternator output wire tells you if the alternator is bad. I don't believe the GEM module has anything to do with starting the engine, it controls things like lights, windows and key fob entry. Does the engine crank but not start with the new alternator? Low battery voltage can cause the fuel pump to not function properly. I just had an event twice in the last two months that could be similar. Car would crank but not start and instrument cluster would click and no lights. I new the battery was not in the greatest shape after a long interval from last start and sub zero temps.. If I cycled the key multiple times then tried to start it it would fire up.

I had that code multiple times on three of my Taurus and never had an issue. I believe it is a failure of the key being sensed in the tumbler that causes the chime if you leave the key in and open the door.

Not cranking could be bad connections to the starter or even a bad starter. They sometimes fail due to oil and carbon dust packing the brushes.

 

[chartmaker]

Lots of places that electric can go bad. Pic of '05 where the grounds are GOOD. Plastic cover pealed back to see. New to me, '04 Sable, new battery and charging fine. Daughter borrowed it to haul something, and she stopped to gas it up, would not crank. No click. I went to where she was, jumpered it and it cranked normal with jumpers. HL good when idling all looked fine, I drove it home. Next day when light, opened door, interior fine, turned HL on and interior dimmed much. Leaving the HL on I checked bat volts, ~12V. Meter bat post of fender, lots of loss. I pealed this plastic back as in the pic, cables were corroded off, both wires barely hanging on with a thread. That plastic hides much in some cases. Visible check, grounds may look bad as in this case, may hide. Battery to fender is key maintenance, ground strap to firewall absolutely a MUST. Pic of bad one. These are general maintenance, once in 10 year, Ford bolts grounds over paint. Clean, sand, lube and re connect. You have two parallel grounds to the body, one at a time will not loose your memory.
V meter as in pic is worth it's weight. Serves for plug in USB.
-chart-

 

[rjacket]

Hello, I hope you can help. I need to keep driving this Vulcan 2002 Wagon. It wouldn't crank but started with a jump. Took it to the shop. The shop said that it needed an alternator, which was replaced today. He said that the alternator was outputting 15 volts. I paid $300 and got in the car, it wouldn't crank. Mechanic, "It's a coincidence," did some fiddling under the hood and kept getting Code B1352 "Ignition Key-in Circuit," (I researched that code and wasn't much on this site that applied to this situation). Later the shop called saying it was a GEM Module failure that can be repaired/replaced in the morning for $375. It sounds like it could use some more trouble shooting from what I've read. In the past the charge light would come on the dash after driving a while. I got a new battery about 3 months ago and the alternator tested good at that time. Sometimes the key is hard to turn or it goes in and out without locking. I sure wish that I could fix this myself if it's not too complicated or too heavy work. I can have it towed to my house and try. I am in a jam and can't spend more money right now. Can you please offer some advice? Thank you---

Firstly, don't use that mechanic again.

Secondly, if you still have the problem after being charged $300, then ask for your $300 back. It's suspicious that your alternator was fine 3 months ago, then this mechanic changes it and it doesn't solve your problem.

I'm being very serious about getting your $300 back. If you're a person who is short on money, the last thing you need is for a mechanic who is supposed to be trained and who you are paying to diagnose and fix issues, instead charge people so they can make a living by guessing at the customer's expense. So ask for your money back and if he refuses, put the transaction in dispute with your credit card company and contact your state's licensing body.

I agree that it is unlikely a GEM failure. Your mechanic is just showing his stupidity by jumping to the conclusion that the fact your trouble code comes from the GEM module means there is a problem with the GEM module.

Even though the B1352 code is often not that serious, you have also stated that you are having difficulties with the key generally. So the condition of the ignition cylinder is something to be investigated.

If you can get hold of a scan tool with the right software eg the free Forscan, it is possible to see what the computer believes the key position is and what the immobilizer system is seeing. That is the kind of diagnostic a real mechanic should do.

And as chart says, if grounding is compromised, then you get all sorts of issues.

 

[helifino]

unfortunately most service techs are not diagnosticians, they only know how to swap parts.

 

[rjacket]

unfortunately most service techs are not diagnosticians, they only know how to swap parts.

I don't know what level of training a service tech gets but it should be a little more than the 1 minute it takes to learn how to test a battery and alternator with a tool that was partly designed to dumb it down for someone who couldn't get a job at McDonalds.

 

[jennings3]

Thanks for all the input. Mechanic said that it cranked and ran yesterday after the new alternator and this morning when he took the car out of the bay.

You know, I notice that it often doesn't chime if you leave the key in and open the door. Neither does the dome light come on sometimes.

BTW this mechanic was recommended by a high school friend I had 50 years ago. His family has run one of the most respected alignment shops In Memphis for 70 years.

 

[rjacket]

Thanks for all the input. Mechanic said that it cranked and ran yesterday after the new alternator and this morning when he took the car out of the bay.

You know, I notice that it often doesn't chime if you leave the key in and open the door. Neither does the dome light come on sometimes.

BTW this mechanic was recommended by a high school friend I had 50 years ago. His family has run one of the most respected alignment shops In Memphis for 70 years.

Yes the B1352 code is all about the ignition not detecting the key is inserted. I have the issue and another person said he has had that issue. Unless you're the kind of person who notices everything, you might not even know you have that issue without a scan tool. And scan tools are dangerous in the hands of the average mechanic (aka parts changer) because they lead to asinine conclusions such as "replace your GEM module". That's why parts stores read your codes for free - to sell you replacement parts.

And congratulations, you just did a better diagnosis than your mechanic. You noticed the symptoms of your key not being recognized in your ignition. A good mechanic would have looked for and found such symptoms in seconds after seeing the code rather than recommend a GEM module replacement.

Also, if your "mechanic" had asked you or listened to you, they would have heard you telling them that you were experiencing an intermittent key not recognized in the ignition fault and wondered if that was related to an intermittent not starting condition.

That isn't a definitive conclusion. It is merely a starting point for diagnosis.

And since you said "Sometimes the key is hard to turn or it goes in and out without locking", to me it sounds like you have something more serious going in with your ignition than just the B1352.

 

[chartmaker]

Yes the B1352 code is all about the ignition not detecting the key is inserted. I have the issue and another person said he has had that issue. Unless you're the kind of person who notices everything, you might not even know you have that issue without a scan tool. And scan tools are dangerous in the hands of the average mechanic (aka parts changer) because they lead to asinine conclusions such as "replace your GEM module". That's why parts stores read your codes for free - to sell you replacement parts.

And congratulations, you just did a better diagnosis than your mechanic. You noticed the symptoms of your key not being recognized in your ignition. A good mechanic would have looked for and found such symptoms in seconds after seeing the code rather than recommend a GEM module replacement.

Also, if your "mechanic" had asked you or listened to you, they would have heard you telling them that you were experiencing an intermittent key not recognized in the ignition fault and wondered if that was related to an intermittent not starting condition.

That isn't a definitive conclusion. It is merely a starting point for diagnosis.

And since you said "Sometimes the key is hard to turn or it goes in and out without locking", to me it sounds like you have something more serious going in with your ignition than just the B1352.

The key tumbler has a very small switch, there is a plastic slug that the key pushes up and it closes the switch. That tells the car the key is present. It is a bit delicate and clumsy design. I had to replace the switch in my Lincoln. It had a pair of codes and that means the switch needs to be replaced with revised part. I would take the tumber out and check the switch and assembly, Not a difficult do. (The Lincoln monitors this switch all the time when the engine is running and if there is a slight glitch in the signal, the car goes to "limp home" mode. If you turn it off it will not restart) You have to remove the key take it away from the signal and return it and start over. The Bulls only need to see the switch closed when starting.
-chart-

 

[Automender12345]

The key tumbler has a very small switch, there is a plastic slug that the key pushes up and it closes the switch. That tells the car the key is present. It is a bit delicate and clumsy design. I had to replace the switch in my Lincoln. It had a pair of codes and that means the switch needs to be replaced with revised part. I would take the tumber out and check the switch and assembly, Not a difficult do. (The Lincoln monitors this switch all the time when the engine is running and if there is a slight glitch in the signal, the car goes to "limp home" mode. If you turn it off it will not restart) You have to remove the key take it away from the signal and return it and start over. The Bulls only need to see the switch closed when starting.
-chart-

The Taurus doesn't need to see the key to start because all my cars had remote starts and only needed the code the chip in the key and physical key does not have to be in the tumbler. And after thinking that is why all those cars had that trouble code because the key wasn't used all the time.

 

[Steve83]

I agree with demanding a full refund on the irrelevant alternator.

It's very easy to R&I the lock cylinder with key-in switch from the column. Just turn the key to RUN, press a probe up into the small hole in the bottom of the column, and withdraw the assembly as shown on this page & the NEXT one:

(click this text)


This page shows the cylinder, switch, and the contact on the column, but it's about a different problem on older trucks, so only the top of the page is relevant to your car:

(click this text)

 

[jennings3]

Thanks everyone: I got the PCM replaced, now it cranks and starts right up. The mechanic said that he was certain of the PCM due to how it was dealing with the code.

I think that the car generally runs better. That may be a delusion to justify spending $375. You know, the car charge light was coming on for more than a year but the young fellow at Auto Zone said it wasn't the alternator it was an "electricity leak." The mechanic said that the alternator was sending more than 15v to the battery. I just hope that the trouble code doesn't return nor the charge light. If so, I'll confront the mechanic.

Next is the sloppy key situation. Thanks again for your time and wisdom.

 

[Architect]

Do you still have the old PCM? If not, I'd try to get it back. Also: a new PCM usually comes with two uncut keys. They were cut to your cylinder lock? If so, do you still have the old keys?

I'm asking, because in case your problem is not solved, you did not waste $375. After all, having two PCMs, both working in your car and both having keys fitting your cylinder lock is a very valuable asset.

 

[Automender12345]

Do you still have the old PCM? If not, I'd try to get it back. Also: a new PCM usually comes with two uncut keys. They were cut to your cylinder lock? If so, do you still have the old keys?

I'm asking, because in case your problem is not solved, you did not waste $375. After all, having two PCMs, both working in your car and both having keys fitting your cylinder lock is a very valuable asset.

You have an excellent point. If the OP wasn't handed a new set of keys one of either two things happened. One he got ripped off and a new PCM was not installed or two, the mechanic has the computers to program the key codes into the newer computer.

 

[jennings3]

Hey, that's good information about the PCM. I called the shop which closed at noon.

The mechanic's wife called back, she handles the phones. She said that the PCM was repaired, not replaced, and stated that an outside person did the work. They had told me that before the work was done

I asked her to call me Monday, that it was important that I speak with the person who did the work. I want to know what was going on with the PCM.

Thanks--

 

[Automender12345]

Hey, that's good information about the PCM. I called the shop which closed at noon.

The mechanic's wife called back, she handles the phones. She said that the PCM was repaired, not replaced, and stated that an outside person did the work. They had told me that before the work was done

I asked her to call me Monday, that it was important that I speak with the person who did the work. I want to know what was going on with the PCM.

Thanks--

Interesting response. I wonder how many PCMs they have repaired by this "outside person" in a year. How long was the car in the shop. Maybe they replaced capacitors which was mentioned here. But the money you paid doesn't seem to bad to get your car running again.

 

[jennings3]

Well, other than ask what did you do, is there anything specific to ask or say to the repair person to help determine if the PCM work was really done?

The car was in the shop 24 hours for the PCM work.

 

[Automender12345]

You can ask what specific components were replaced. For example capacitors, resistor or transistor/drivers. Maybe they will say they just cleaned the connector or had to resolder broken traces of the circuit board. It would be good to know the company name that did the repairs.

 

[rjacket]

You can ask what specific components were replaced. For example capacitors, resistor or transistor/drivers. Maybe they will say they just cleaned the connector or had to resolder broken traces of the circuit board. It would be good to know the company name that did the repairs.

Ask them a trick question like "Was it a faulty flux capacitor?" or "Did you reverse the polarity?".

 

[jennings3]

Ask them a trick question like "Was it a faulty flux capacitor?" or "Did you reverse the polarity?".

You tricked me!! I see what you mean. Thanks--