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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I searched the forum and tried to use the topic finder to no avail. I didn't see any detailed write-ups for changing out a fuel pump. I had another post going about starting my car starting a little rough in the mornings. I have decided to go ahead and change the fuel pump. From experience on this car, sometimes jobs that don't seem that hard turn into a little bit harder tasks when you start disassembling stuff - mostly with clearance issues in my limited experience with engine work on this car. I was just wondering if anyone has any tips or tricks or anything dealing with replacing the fuel pump/pump assembly? My car is a 2005 3.0 liter - overhead valves with U vin code. I think it is a Vulcan. Also, thanks everyone that commented on my other thread. I appreciate everyone sharing their Taurus knowledge.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Wow, seriously? No replies. I would have thought someone would have something with all the talk of fuel pumps in this forum. OK, well, I guess I will stick with my original plan, which is put the rear on stands, take off the filler nuts, unbolt the straps, and drop the tank. I think there should be some quick-connect hoses and an electrical connector under there. Then, I think its just a matter of removing the old assembly and putting the new one in. Then, I think that I will connect everything back, raise the tank and bolt it all back up. Sound about right?
 

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QUOTE (05grannycar @ Jun 2 2010, 09:01 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=808844
Wow, seriously? No replies. I would have thought someone would have something with all the talk of fuel pumps in this forum. OK, well, I guess I will stick with my original plan, which is put the rear on stands, take off the filler nuts, unbolt the straps, and drop the tank. I think there should be some quick-connect hoses and an electrical connector under there. Then, I think its just a matter of removing the old assembly and putting the new one in. Then, I think that I will connect everything back, raise the tank and bolt it all back up. Sound about right?[/b]
Don't have a full tank.

That's my $0.02
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
That's fair. I plan on running it till its pretty much out. I really don't think it will be too bad. The reason that I turn to this forum is because I have a Chilton's book for 96-05 Taurus-Sable. I find that some stuff on my car is just not mentioned in the book. I know that the fuel pump procedure from the book is not exactly the same for my car. The assemblies are different. Its not so much getting the tank off, its the differences in the assemblies. I just figured maybe someone else knew of a common mistake or something. I know at this point that I need to be careful disconnecting the hoses because of the quick-connect ends. I wonder if there is any delicate plastic or anything on the assembly.
 

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...but why change the fuel pump if it's delivering correct pressure, and not failing? I would just focus more on what is causing the starting problem, rather than throw parts at it. I really think a new fuel pump isn't going to fix your problem.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
There is a chance you are right. I can't check the fuel pressure with a schrader valve and pressure gauge though, because there isn't one. There is no port to check fuel pressure on the rail. Here are some of the facts:

Cycling the key makes no difference
Hooking jumper cables up to a known good battery makes no difference
It only happens if the car sits overnight

What I have changed so far:

IAC valve
Coolant temperature sensor
Crankshaft Position Sensor
Plugs
Wires
Ignition coil pack
I have replaced the gasket around the intake runner controls using the method described in this forum
Oil/Filter
Air filter
Fuel filter
Vacuum Canister
Manifold vacuum line from the canister
Cleaned the MAF with electronic parts cleaner

None of this has helped the morning starts. The car drives nice and the engine is quiet as heck, but I am still kind of frustrated. That's why I figured I would try the fuel pump. There are two other things I could try first. The fuel pressure sensor and making sure the computer is up to date. Both cost around $100. I have no idea how to accurately test either of these things myself. I'm not sure how to check for fuel pressure with no schrader valve to hook a gauge up to. I feel like my only option at this point is to throw parts at it.
 

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I didn't think of this before, but what grade of gas are you using? Did you try gas from another station than you normally fill up at? I know my car will somtimes start funny if I put premium in it, and the weather isn't hot when I start it cold.

Have the car hooked up to a engine analyzer (not just a code reader) to see exactly what is going on with all the sensors, and fuel trim. Not all repair shops have them, so you'll have to call around and ask, get prices. Maybe another member has one near you?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I usually use regular gas from Quick Trip or Chevron. I think they both have pretty good gas. I have also tried a bottle of fuel system cleaner. I have had it hooked up to an engine diagnostic machine at a shop. They said it was registering with a lean fuel condition - even though the engine light wasn't on.


Edit: There is one thing that I didn't think to mention. When the car finally does crank all the way over, it revs up to like 1500 rpms for about a minute. After it warms up, it settles back down to a reasonable level. I have seen a few reports of this at various locations on the web. Seems to be somewhat common, however, no one has a really good answer for it. People usually suggest the same things - which I have already checked and replaced. The only things I haven't replaced yet are the pressure sensor on the rail, and updating the computer. Apparently, there was a TSB issued that addressed something similar to this. It is TSB #51113. The dealer said to print it out and if he would do an update and it would be $100. I figured I would try to Fuel Pressure sensor first, and at one point, I was really thinking I would change the pump. I'm really at a loss here, and at $100 per experiment, this is getting pricey. I'm glad I don't have kids.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I tried an experiment today. I unplugged the fuel pressure sensor and tried to start the car. This would be the "fuel pressure regulator" on the fuel rail. I don't have a schrader valve to check pressure - just this little electronic sensor that sits on the rail and looks to be vacuum operated. My thinking was that if the sensor was good, it would make a noticeable difference if it was unplugged. So, when I started the car with it unplugged there was absolutely no difference. The car started and did what it always does, which is take a while to crank and then idle high for a while. I think that the sensor might be bad. I'm going to buy a new one from the local ford shop here. I'll keep everyone up to date.
 

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QUOTE (05grannycar @ Jun 5 2010, 12:33 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=809475
I usually use regular gas from Quick Trip or Chevron. I think they both have pretty good gas. I have also tried a bottle of fuel system cleaner. I have had it hooked up to an engine diagnostic machine at a shop. They said it was registering with a lean fuel condition - even though the engine light wasn't on.


Edit: There is one thing that I didn't think to mention. When the car finally does crank all the way over, it revs up to like 1500 rpms for about a minute. After it warms up, it settles back down to a reasonable level. I have seen a few reports of this at various locations on the web. Seems to be somewhat common, however, no one has a really good answer for it. People usually suggest the same things - which I have already checked and replaced. The only things I haven't replaced yet are the pressure sensor on the rail, and updating the computer. Apparently, there was a TSB issued that addressed something similar to this. It is TSB #51113. The dealer said to print it out and if he would do an update and it would be $100. I figured I would try to Fuel Pressure sensor first, and at one point, I was really thinking I would change the pump. I'm really at a loss here, and at $100 per experiment, this is getting pricey. I'm glad I don't have kids.[/b]
The dealer wants you to print out a tsb? They have access to all that info from Ford's dealer website! If you still have a lean condition, you still have a vac leak somwhere. Did they say which bank was lean? I would start checking the egr valve, it could need the ports cleaned, or the egr gasket could be bad. The lean condition is what is causing your starting problem.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
The dealership where I bought the car is full of ******** - especially the service guys. I have never liked going to them, but the guy did tell me to print out the tsb. I might try another dealership. The shop that told me I had a lean condition didn't tell me what bank was lean, and I didn't think to ask. They had the diagnostics hooked up because I had to have them help me install my crankshaft position sensor. When they were doing the diagnostic they said they found a lean code that wasn't showing with the regular code reader. I'm not sure where I could have a vacuum leak. I have checked the pcv - both sides. There is a regular one that hooks in by the MAF, and there is an electronic one on the backside of the motor. Both look good. I have taken off the EGR to check for build-up and the gasket. I did end up changing the gasket. There are three lines that hook into a connector that sits on the plastic cover by the windshield wipers. Those look to be good. The only other place I can think of are the ones on the intake and those look good too. No cracks, hissing, and there isn't any stumble when I check with starter fluid. Are there any vacuum locations that might not be readily apparent or visible when looking at the motor? I even replaced the gasket on the Intake Manifold Control.

EDIT: One thing I haven't thought of yet are the actual EGR controls - the backpressure sensor and the main vacuum timing control. I think I can get both of those parts at just about any parts store. I know the fuel pressure sensor is a special order thing. I don't think the EGR itself is bad, but perhaps one of the control modules for it? The one that sits on the front of the engine is the solenoid (timing control). That part is only about $30. I think the backpressure thing is $60. The solenoid is easy to change, I might try that first just for kicks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
OK, I actually just read something about the back pressure sensor (DPFE sensor). I read that it fails often when the car is over 60,000 miles or over 5 years old. Mine just turned 5 yrs old, and there are roughly 76,000 miles on the odometer. I found a replacement for about $40 on rockauto.com. This would almost make sense. If the engine thinks it needs egr at startup, or is getting egr at startup, this would cause the hard start. It could also be affecting my subpar gas mileage. It seems likely that this could be a failure point. I remember thinking it was weird that I have the style of DPFE that I do. It looks like it has two holes that are supposed to bolt onto the manifold, but there is no place on my manifold to bolt it to. After looking through my Chilton's book, I realized that this part was originally designed for the older style manifold, and I guess they just never changed it when they changed the manifold style. I'm wondering if EGR being present at startup would also cause the high idling. I guess if it was trying to maintain a certain fuel ratio and couldn't at normal idle, it would cause it to idle high. I am going to go ahead and buy the $40 replacement and try to change that out first. I might be able to get to it by just taking off the windshield wiper 'manifold?'. I'll keep everyone up to date on the outcome.

EDIT: I don't know if this helps at all, but I just went outside to look at it, and I can hear a noticeable rattle when I push on it. Like I said, its not bolted to anything, its just hanging out back there attached to those two hoses and the electrical connector. When I reach back behind the manifold and I kind of push it a little bit, there is a serious rattle. I am wondering if something inside of it has broken and failed, or if it is supposed to rattle.
 

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Why don't you just pay the $100 diagnostic fee at a good garage and let them tell you what is going on? This way you'll probably save money on unneeded parts.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
The reason that I'm not going to pay the $100 diagnostic fee is that I'm not sure they can really tell me what's wrong. I have heard tons of stories of people who have been told the wrong thing. I am saving that for a last resort. Plus, I kind of like putting new stuff on my car. I don't have any pics because I don't have a digital camera :( What I am referring to is the sensor that sits right next to the EGR. Its behind the UIM, on the passenger side of the EGR. It is definitely rattling, and I am not sure if it is supposed to. I am definitely changing it. Hopefully it will help.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Quick update. I went to Oreilley's today to check out the DPFE backpressure sensor. I looked at a new one, shook it, and there was no rattle. Indeed, this part is NOT supposed to rattle. Mine has a noticeable rattle when it is shaken. Since there isn't much holding it in, it is pretty easy to rattle it. My new theory is that the sensor is broken, which is causing my PCM not to know how much EGR my engine is getting. The new part is $60 and it has a lifetime warranty. I'll buy one in a week or two and see how it does.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Changed the EGR backpressure (DPFE) sensor yesterday. Made minimal difference. Check for vacuum to the EGR - its there. I don't think it is my EGR system at all. I sprayed the vacuum areas down with starter fluid again - nothing. I'm back to fuel pump or computer. I'm gonna try cycling the key like 10 or 15 times tomorrow morning to see what happens.
 

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Quick update. I went to Oreilley's today to check out the DPFE backpressure sensor. I looked at a new one, shook it, and there was no rattle. Indeed, this part is NOT supposed to rattle. Mine has a noticeable rattle when it is shaken. Since there isn't much holding it in, it is pretty easy to rattle it. My new theory is that the sensor is broken, which is causing my PCM not to know how much EGR my engine is getting. The new part is $60 and it has a lifetime warranty. I'll buy one in a week or two and see how it does.
If that sensor fails, it'll throw a egr code. Somthing is causing your lean condition, you need to find a good master mechanic who isn't going to give the runaround. I don't think your going to fix this problem by throwing expensive parts at it.
 

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I think someone warned not to throw parts at it. EGR: Exhaust Gas Recirculation. You can't have any exhaust gas if the engine hasn't started yet. Ruled out as the main culprit before the part was ever replaced. It may drive better now though and perhaps a contributing factor to the starting problem.

There was mention of a lean condition and you checked for vacuum leaks by spraying the lines. Good. Can you hear any leaks? The PCV hose on my DOHC had a split that was impossible to find even with spraying. But I could hear it. It was under the throttle body. It also allowed very high idling and obviously a lean condition on this Mass Air system. Drives better now.

You could also have a leaking injector causing it to flood out. You might see black smoke out the exhaust once it did fire, while the cats were still too cold to function. You can't find the valve on the fuel rail? I assume that my DOHC's valve is in a different location so I can't help there. Keep looking though.

You also mentioned jumper cables and a known good battery. So is it a CRANKING problem or a STARTING (initial running) problem? If it spins like crazy when you turn the key, don't worry about batteries, starters, cables, etc. If it turns over slowly when cranking, don't worry about air, fuel, ignition, compression, etc. until the electrical problem is eliminated.

Stop replacing parts and start identifying the problem. Diagnose it. Rule out the obvious. Let us know what you find.

Dave
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I think someone warned not to throw parts at it. EGR: Exhaust Gas Recirculation. You can't have any exhaust gas if the engine hasn't started yet. Ruled out as the main culprit before the part was ever replaced. It may drive better now though and perhaps a contributing factor to the starting problem.

There was mention of a lean condition and you checked for vacuum leaks by spraying the lines. Good. Can you hear any leaks? The PCV hose on my DOHC had a split that was impossible to find even with spraying. But I could hear it. It was under the throttle body. It also allowed very high idling and obviously a lean condition on this Mass Air system. Drives better now.

You could also have a leaking injector causing it to flood out. You might see black smoke out the exhaust once it did fire, while the cats were still too cold to function. You can't find the valve on the fuel rail? I assume that my DOHC's valve is in a different location so I can't help there. Keep looking though.

You also mentioned jumper cables and a known good battery. So is it a CRANKING problem or a STARTING (initial running) problem? If it spins like crazy when you turn the key, don't worry about batteries, starters, cables, etc. If it turns over slowly when cranking, don't worry about air, fuel, ignition, compression, etc. until the electrical problem is eliminated.

Stop replacing parts and start identifying the problem. Diagnose it. Rule out the obvious. Let us know what you find.

Dave
Lets see if I can answer all of these. No I cannot hear any audible leak that would point me toward a vacuum leak. I have listened closely around every place with vacuum.

As far as the cranking vs. starting thing, the best way I can describe it is that it cranks normally, but does not start. It takes and extra 2 or 3 seconds, and then when it does finally start it idles too high for a while - like a minute or so. I have already replaced the IAC valve.

I have had the manifold off of the car, with the rails exposed, and I have not seen a pressure valve. The only thing actually sticking out of the rail is the fuel pressure sensor.

It would be really hard to diagnose a fuel issue without an easy way to check the pressure. It would be really hard to know if its a sensor or something without it throwing a CEL. I am going to do something that I probably should have done a month ago, which is replace the fuel pump. If that doesn't work, then I will take it to a Ford dealer. Then you guys won't have to listen to how many parts I am throwing at it :)
 
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