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Discussion Starter #1
My first set up was one 1200 watt amp and one 1 farad capacitor. I have since upgraded to two 1200 watt amps (same exact amps) and two 1 farad capacitors. With the one amp i needed the capacitor to stop my headlights from flashing. With the dual amps and caps i get head light flickering no matter what. I guess there is only so much they can do. But i bet if i disconnect one capacitor it will make no difference, so i wasted my money on an extra cap. The one benefit of the dual caps is that if i disconnect my battery, within a 15 second window i can almost...almost start my car(of course it would never really start). I wonder if all these electronic guys at crutchfield and everywhere else glorify capacitors so much then why don't we just hook capacitors up to every damn accessory in our car. Lets put caps on the headlights and the head unit and the damn dome light (maybe it won't surprise us and kill the battery everytime we leave the on). When i read and listen to and logically truy to recreate in my head what a capacitor does, it makes sense. But with actual experience, they do nothing but shock my ass when i disconnect the battery and touch a hotwire that shouldn't be hot.
 

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2nd battery....you are beyond caps. You could get more caps/bigger caps, but a battery would be a MUCH better, and less expensive option.

Brad

PS...hoss....dont even bother, ill kick your ass :rolleyes:
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Well i got my 'good brand' cap off of etronics for like 69.99. They have caps all the way down to around $39.99 but they are brands i've never heard of. In other words, i can afford 100 caps but only a few batteries. I wonder, what would be the benfit of a dual battery system with an optima red top (starting) battery and a yellow top (deep cycle) battery. Does it just seem good?






P.S. I still think capping the dome light is a great idea.
 

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Originally posted by Baby SHO@Aug 5 2004, 09:19 PM
PS...hoss....dont even bother, ill kick your ass :rolleyes:
haha, dont worry man... i dont even feel like going into it anymore... if people want to educate themselves before making a purchase then the info is out there for them.

but i will simply second what you said. you can spend $300 on the $40 caps you mentioned... but you still wont even come close to the potential of $160 for a yellow top, and you still wont have fixed the problem.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I have a yellow top installed now, and i don't see the benefits beyond those gained when installing any new battery. Also, any remarks on my yellow top/red top/ dual battery idea?
 

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Dual battery is a bad idea. A battery only puts out 12.6 volts whereas your alternator puts out 13.5-14.4 volts or thereabouts. Meaning that when the car is running the second battery is just another load for the alternator to charge. And that extra load is going to hurt the alternator if anything.

The 2nd battery is only good in cases where you need more reserve power for extended play with the car shut off.
 

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Originally posted by spy2520@Aug 5 2004, 10:26 PM
I have a yellow top installed now, and i don't see the benefits beyond those gained when installing any new battery. Also, any remarks on my yellow top/red top/ dual battery idea?
i had headlight dimming with one battery....2 batteries fixed the issue....its not just my opinion, its fact.
 

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Originally posted by 1fast97@Aug 5 2004, 10:29 PM
Dual battery is a bad idea.  A battery only puts out 12.6 volts whereas your alternator puts out 13.5-14.4 volts or thereabouts.
Wrong. Please research before you state info as fact...

Your battery puts out whatever it was chaged to (minus a few fractions of a volt).

As for it being a bad idea, your wrong again. As proof, a battery is only a load when discharged, so as long as your alt is big enough if the first place, which ours is, its not much more of a load, if any (it takes minimal current to keep a battery charged).

The 2nd battery is helpeful during large bass hits and is recharged inbeween bass hits.

Lastly, if anything it HELPS the life of the Alternator. MOre specifically, the voltage regulator.
 

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1Fast97 I am not sure you are really educated in the issues, no offence. I highly doubt having a second battery will cause any damage. They are wired in parallell, and to cause additional strain on the alternator you would have to have both batteries completely drained.

Trying to get your alternator to keep up with demand, in this case [email protected] volts giver or take, then we are talking damage.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
What about those multiple battery systems, i think Rockford Fosgate makes one, where one battery runs the essentials like starting, etc. and the other battery is used for auxilliary things such as big stereo, and it regulates what the alternator charges, the starting battery being of higher priority. Then once the starting battery is recharged good enough, it splits the recharging effort of the alternator between both batteries. It is controlled by the charge remaining in each battery. This is what i've come to understand, but i'm not sure.
 

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you can do somthing simmilar wih a battery isolator. Esentially, two huge diodes. Does all the same stuff, only it does not have a "priority"

Brad
 

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You need a good deep discharge type battery, I suggest an Odyssey PC 1200. And good cables 4 ga. This is all you really need, be sure to get as large of wire you can to the amp. Be sure the alternator wire is at least 6 ga.

Be sure the negative cable is as big s the positive cable in all cases.
 

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Originally posted by 1fast97@Aug 5 2004, 10:29 PM
Dual battery is a bad idea.  A battery only puts out 12.6 volts whereas your alternator puts out 13.5-14.4 volts or thereabouts.  Meaning that when the car is running the second battery is just another load for the alternator to charge.  And that extra load is going to hurt the alternator if anything. 

The 2nd battery is only good in cases where you need more reserve power for extended play with the car shut off.
wrong, the extra battery will supply the amplifier the current that the alt is unable to produce. the stock alt sucks balls and cannot produce enough juice to do anything with. the extra batery will store lots of current and feed it to the amp as it needs it, the voltage in this case means very little since by the time the amp starts drawing off the battery this means that it has drawing more than the alternator can produe, thus lowering the voltage equal to or less than the 12v charge that the batt is producing.
 

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An Odyssey PC 1200 is all you would need unless you are in competition. Then get the even bigger PC 1700. The number in the model means how many amps can be delivered over a 5 sec period. As you can see the Odysseys are made for high amperage/fast discharge. Much better that any other type of battery IMHO.

Big wires are all you need to deliver it. I have a 25 lb PC 625 and run a 40 A amplifier, plus the other rather large electrical loads my car produces. My guess is at any time the alternator is actually delivering anything over 70A or half rating. Higher amperage alternators and capacitors are only making up for poor primary wiring.

The only time a higher amp alternator is needed is when the engine is below 1500 rpm with a large electrical load. Still I have no voltage drop problems in my car at all.

Here is how to check resistance in high amperage primary wiring system under load.

If you have access to a digital volt meter do this.

1. Disable the ignition by pulling the power fuse to the PCM.

2. Set the meter to DC millivolts.

3. Hold one end on the copper starter stud with the cable from the from the
battery.  The other meter end on the positive battery post.

4.Get a reading with nothing on.

5. Get a reading with the motor turning over, no other electrical load.

The higher the number the worse the cable is.  My guess anything over
350-450mV indicates too much resistance.

While you are at it you might as well check the alternator output wire to
the positive battery post while the car is running with a large electrical
load.  This will test that cable too.

6. Check the reading with the engine running and all electrical devices on,
1500 rpm.

Good 6 ga cables are all you really need.  Get rid of the lead head battery
cable ends and get some Penske OEM spring type (GEN 3) battery cables ends
at Wal-Mart.  You can find cables of various lengths in 6ga wire with lug
terminals on each end at any auto parts store.  Use some battery or
petroleum grease (not die-electric) on all the terminal ends.
Another thing about adding a second battery is how are you going to charge it? The voltage regulator in the alternator will be looking at the total system voltage which should be the same on each battery. But each battery unless identical in both environmental conditions and battery type, will be subjected to the same current flow. Even identical paired and put in service at the same time batteries with one in the trunk and one in the engine compartment is going to cause problems. The one in the engine compartment is subject to a lot more heat which will affect the performance of the battery as compared to the battery in the trunk.

You really need a second battery charging circuit device to make a two battery system work well. In all you are spending a lot of money, adding a lot more weight to get what one good battery and good cables can give you.
 

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Originally posted by SHOZ123@Aug 6 2004, 01:28 PM
Higher amperage alternators and capacitors are only making up for poor primary wiring.

The only time a higher amp alternator is needed is when the engine is below 1500 rpm with a large electrical load. Still I have no voltage drop problems in my car at all.
come to NC and i can prove you VERY wrong with that statement man... i can have my engine pegging 3500 RPM and can shut down all of the electronics with the volume turned down...

and that is only running one amp and one sub :blink: :blink:

high amp alternators will truly fix the electrical problem, the stock alt is designed to run all of the cars stock electronics, and not much else
 

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Originally posted by SHOZ123@Aug 6 2004, 01:28 PM
Another thing about adding a second battery is how are you going to charge it? The voltage regulator in the alternator will be looking at the total system voltage which should be the same on each battery. But each battery unless identical in both environmental conditions and battery type, will be subjected to the same current flow. Even identical paired and put in service at the same time batteries with one in the trunk and one in the engine compartment is going to cause problems. The one in the engine compartment is subject to a lot more heat which will affect the performance of the battery as compared to the battery in the trunk.

You really need a second battery charging circuit device to make a two battery system work well. In all you are spending a lot of money, adding a lot more weight to get what one good battery and good cables can give you.
you dont need any extra equipment... the alt will charge them both the same, the voltage regulator on the alt regulates what it puts out, not what it charges the battery to. batteries come with a pre-determined charge, whether it be 8v, 12, 16, or 18v, and they will not charge to a higher level. the voltage regulator just looks at what is coming out of the alternator and if it sees that more volatage is coming out, it backs it down to the accepted rate.

the only thing that you might consider when running a second battery is a battery isolator. this will prevent parasitic loss between the batteries. when the batteries sit with nothing charging them they will constantly try to match each others voltage by lowering themselves. however, they are usually off by a very slight amount and they will continue to drain themselves until they are drawn to a voltage where they no longer become useful to start the car. however, you really only need an isolator if you are going to let your car sit for an extended period of time, and in which case you can simply undo one of the batteries from the system.
 

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Originally posted by hoss+Aug 6 2004, 07:24 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (hoss @ Aug 6 2004, 07:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-SHOZ123@Aug 6 2004, 01:28 PM
Another thing about adding a second battery is how are you going to charge it?  The voltage regulator in the alternator will be looking at the total system voltage which should be the same on each battery.  But each battery unless identical in both environmental conditions and battery type, will be subjected to the same current flow.  Even identical paired and put in service at the same time batteries with one in the trunk and one in the engine compartment is going to cause problems.  The one in the engine compartment is subject to a lot more heat which will affect the performance of the battery as compared to the battery in the trunk.

You really need a second battery charging circuit device to make a two battery system work well.  In all you are spending a lot of money, adding a lot more weight to get what one good battery and good cables can give you.
you dont need any extra equipment... the alt will charge them both the same, the voltage regulator on the alt regulates what it puts out, not what it charges the battery to. batteries come with a pre-determined charge, whether it be 8v, 12, 16, or 18v, and they will not charge to a higher level. the voltage regulator just looks at what is coming out of the alternator and if it sees that more volatage is coming out, it backs it down to the accepted rate.

the only thing that you might consider when running a second battery is a battery isolator. this will prevent parasitic loss between the batteries. when the batteries sit with nothing charging them they will constantly try to match each others voltage by lowering themselves. however, they are usually off by a very slight amount and they will continue to drain themselves until they are drawn to a voltage where they no longer become useful to start the car. however, you really only need an isolator if you are going to let your car sit for an extended period of time, and in which case you can simply undo one of the batteries from the system. [/b][/quote]
hoss...please dont take this personally, and i know you and paul are going at it, but the statement you just made is so wrong i cant even tell you.

Paul is a very informed individual with alot of research behind his answers. Dont be so easy to discreadit him, or me. The statement you made just put alot of your creadibility out the window.

Im not gonna get into how the voltage regulator works, but it is actually a current regulator more than anything.

It does measue the charge of the battery, thats why theres and EXTERNAL sense lead, otherwise, the alt would not need one.

It lowers the CURRENT supplied to the battery as the charge rises. Otherwise i could charge the battery to 16-17 volts and boil it over. This current limitation sets the voltage to a certian point, sucha as 14.4, and thus is misnomered as a vltage regulator. (So it does both).

Brad
 

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The first clue to the fact a person doesn't have all the knowledge needed is when they quote an amplifiers input needs by telling you what the rated output is.
 

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Originally posted by SHOZ123@Aug 6 2004, 10:36 PM
The first clue to the fact a person doesn't have all the knowledge needed is when they quote an amplifiers input needs by telling you what the rated output is.
lol

Also hoss, theres alot more wrong with your statment but im too lazy to type it. Such as parasitic losses by parralelling battries.... what are you talking about. A battery isolator has paracitic losses (voltage drop across the diodes of 0.6-0.8v) Etc.

Brad
 

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ill tell you exactly what the hell im talking about...

when two batteries are wired together they will constantly try to equalize themselves. however, since the two battery temps are different, but will later equalize, the voltages will likewise change and the two voltages will(likewise) attempt to equalize themselves. however, they will never truly equalize and the batteries will continue to attempt to equalize themselves, in a never ending cycle of drawing off each other, thus creating parasiti loss between the two batteries which will over time(as i said before) cause the batteries to drain themselves entirely.

a battery isolator has parasitic loss, but does not influence both batteries, and will not cause total failure as previously mentioned...

and also brad, i didnt take it personally... until the recent few posts when i felt like i was personally being pulled out and attacked...

so fucking what if i may have been mis-informed on the subject of alternators... so what if i dont know the total internal workings of an alternator... i dont know alternators totally, i know what their purpose is in a car, and what they are there to do. ok, ill admit i may have been wrong, it was just what i was informed of as to the workings of the alternator. i never was discrediting you or pauls info, until you people decide to post like "wholier than thou" asses...

and when have i, or anyone in this thread said anything about quoting an amplifiers input needs by telling you what the rated output is?? this has me totally confused...

i do believer there were proper ways to go about this, and i do believe two certain people crossed a few lines in covering said subject matter... and if anyone cares to PM me about it i would be willing to discuss it in a MATURE matter, and admit that i may have been wrong about something... instead of simply attempting to attack others in a series of back-handed comments...
 
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