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http://www.autoblog.com/2009/02/18/breakin...cle-operations/

"Coinciding with the release of General Motors' Viability Plan, the automaker has disbanded its High Performance Vehicle Operations team, the crew responsible for the line V-series Cadillacs, the Chevrolet Cobalt SS, HHR SS and the V8 version of the Colorado. According to Vince Muniga, a spokesman for the General, "All high-performance projects are on indefinite hold. The engineers are moving into different areas of the organization, and they will work on Cadillacs, Buicks, Chevrolets and Pontiacs." Muniga went on to say that there are no plans for high-performance versions of upcoming plans, but once (if?) GM is in a better financial position, the team could be reinstated."[/b]
 

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That's probably for the best - they need to concentrade on building truly competitive core products. Most people don't buy the high-performance niche cars, and GM needs to be very careful where it's putting its money right now.

A better base vehicle will always make a better performance platform, too. :)
 

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the current performance cars will stay, just no new ones will come out for a while.
 

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:angry: This is just another sop to the pencil necks in D.C.

GM took the government cheese so they have to whistle the government's tune.

Still they have the Pontiac G8 which is assembled in Australia with a 350 V8 which should prove to be quite a performer, although perhaps not one that sells.

Hopefully, they'll be able to keep the Corvette in production.

GMs real problem is that it doesn't have a viable cross over like the EDGE, and their pickups are non-competitive with the F150. I understand Ford has had to add an additional shift to satisfy demand on the new F150.
 

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I understand Ford has had to add an additional shift to satisfy demand on the new F150.
[/b]

but you forgot the 2 shifts they got rid of before
 

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Not Surprising ... GM like any other brand now a days is starting to redefine themselves. Around here anyways.. there may be 2 G8s on the roads... most of the cobalt ss's are driven by tuners... and if you see a performance caddy someone outside of town bought it ...we see alot of focus , taurus, corolla,s and cobalts on the roads

heck we just got rid of the saturn dealer here.... they went into liquidation a couple weeks ago and are having an auction of their car stock
 

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I'm sure that the G8 will be the "niche" vehicle that sticks around... The Grand Prix probably will too and that's it... And what's this about knocking the government? GM would have gone bankrupt without the money and shedding loser brands is a good thing! Boo who Saturn and Hummer will die... Give me a break!
 

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The Grand Prix probably will too and that's it...[/b]
There is no Grand Prix. The GP and Bonneville were both superseded by the G8.

And I don't think there's very many people upset about Saturn and Hummer going away.
 

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heck we just got rid of the saturn dealer here.... they went into liquidation a couple weeks ago and are having an auction of their car stock
[/b]
Our Saturn dealer in Duluth just closed a week or two ago. Not like it was big anyway, driving past it one would thing it was a parking that happened to be full of Saturns if it wasn't for the sign.
 

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According to Jalopnik, the G8 is dead after this generation. So is the Solstice, along with Saturn and Pontiac, when their current product life cycles are over.

Supposedly, the Pontiac brand will live on as a niche label, but not as an actual division. With no more performance development, I'm not sure what that means.

Pontiac kills next-gen G8

Pontiac, A Eulogy; Excitement No More

They had already announced that we're not getting the G8 ute...and that we are getting the apocalyptically stupid Chev...um, Pontiac Ave..er, G3. Hello and welcome back to the wonderful world of badge engineered pointlessness. :(
 

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From what I understand and have read, Hummer will be sold, Saab will be sold, and Saturn will be phased out before the end of 2011, possibly 2010.
 

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<div class='quotemain'>The Grand Prix probably will too and that's it...[/b]
There is no Grand Prix. The GP and Bonneville were both superseded by the G8.

And I don't think there's very many people upset about Saturn and Hummer going away.
[/b][/quote]

Wow, shows you how much I care about Pontiac... Honestly, GM has gone so far downhill that none of their new models really inspire any kind of "hope" or excitement. Everything has this GM taint on it and in the past decade, almost every "new" car they've introduced has become a flop. The CTS and the next gen Lacrosse seem to be the only exceptions (I'm sure you'll all find ones that I missed though), G8 included. Like ya, it's a fast Pontiac, but so what?

Atleast it seems this way to me when I compare it to Ford... Maybe I'm wearing blue oval coloured glasses, but I was never a hardcore Ford addict (just a Taurus addict), but with the models they have been coming out with recently has totally made me a convert! The new Taurus rocks (and it's not just Ford fans that are excited), the new Fusion is going to be the best in its class, the new Fiesta is going to steal the well-built, subcompact car market from the Japanese and if they finally snare the European Focus (a car which is already great) Ford's car lineup will be one of the best! Obviously Ford already is a huge name in the truck market with the F150, Edge, Escape and Explorer so that's covered... What esle is great about Ford is that to auto heads, they are also making news with something as boring as a new transmission! The ecoboost engine seems to be very popular too! Everything on Ford's horizons seems to be stellar, even the conversion van Transit is getting lots of coverage. The only Ford I'm not too excited about is the Flex, but meh, I'll get over it....

Does GM or Chrylser have anything like that to offer?

Lincoln still disappoints me, but I'm glad that Ford is concentrating on the bread and butter cars as opposed to the "dream machines" (or nightmare machines?) which GM and Chrysler seem to concentrate on. The fact that Ford seems to be willing to let the Crown Victoria fade into oblivion and lose the police market is representative of their desire to go from niche cars to ones that they can mass market in North America and around the world... I still got my fingers crossed for the Falcon though!

The MKS is a nice car but I think it's going to be totally overshadowed by the Taurus and should be a hint to Ford that they need more brand distinction! The MKZ and the MKX are fine cars too but too much like the Fusion and Edge to be noticed. I guess it just takes time to build the perfect lineup!
 

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QUOTE (mmmfloorpie @ Feb 19 2009, 12:07 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=703877
QUOTE (Stocker @ Feb 19 2009, 01:18 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=703778
QUOTE (mmmfloorpie @ Feb 19 2009, 12:11 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=703771
The Grand Prix probably will too and that's it...[/b]
There is no Grand Prix. The GP and Bonneville were both superseded by the G8.

And I don't think there's very many people upset about Saturn and Hummer going away.
[/b][/quote]

Wow, shows you how much I care about Pontiac... Honestly, GM has gone so far downhill that none of their new models really inspire any kind of "hope" or excitement. Everything has this GM taint on it and in the past decade, almost every "new" car they've introduced has become a flop. The CTS and the next gen Lacrosse seem to be the only exceptions (I'm sure you'll all find ones that I missed though), G8 included. Like ya, it's a fast Pontiac, but so what?

Atleast it seems this way to me when I compare it to Ford... Maybe I'm wearing blue oval coloured glasses, but I was never a hardcore Ford addict (just a Taurus addict), but with the models they have been coming out with recently has totally made me a convert! The new Taurus rocks (and it's not just Ford fans that are excited), the new Fusion is going to be the best in its class, the new Fiesta is going to steal the well-built, subcompact car market from the Japanese and if they finally snare the European Focus (a car which is already great) Ford's car lineup will be one of the best! Obviously Ford already is a huge name in the truck market with the F150, Edge, Escape and Explorer so that's covered... What esle is great about Ford is that to auto heads, they are also making news with something as boring as a new transmission! The ecoboost engine seems to be very popular too! Everything on Ford's horizons seems to be stellar, even the conversion van Transit is getting lots of coverage. The only Ford I'm not too excited about is the Flex, but meh, I'll get over it....

Does GM or Chrylser have anything like that to offer?

Lincoln still disappoints me, but I'm glad that Ford is concentrating on the bread and butter cars as opposed to the "dream machines" (or nightmare machines?) which GM and Chrysler seem to concentrate on. The fact that Ford seems to be willing to let the Crown Victoria fade into oblivion and lose the police market is representative of their desire to go from niche cars to ones that they can mass market in North America and around the world... I still got my fingers crossed for the Falcon though!

The MKS is a nice car but I think it's going to be totally overshadowed by the Taurus and should be a hint to Ford that they need more brand distinction! The MKZ and the MKX are fine cars too but too much like the Fusion and Edge to be noticed. I guess it just takes time to build the perfect lineup!
[/b][/quote]


A very well thought through summary, and one that I agree with almost 100%. I'm going to reserve judgment on the new (2010) Fusion until I drive one. As we've discussed in the past I really felt "let down" by the current Fusion after comparing it to its competition.

The 2010 Taurus looks like a winner. I just hope it's not too big of car in today's economy but hopefully it will pick up the sales that would have gone to the moribund Crown Vic.

What are your thoughts on the Mercury brand? In its current state I think it should be killed off. There's little distinction, as you say, between some of the Ford and Lincoln siblings and I just don't see the point of having a Mercury positioned between the two.

The MKS is a very good car. I would suggest that Ford offer it in RWD or AWD versions only while saving FWD (and AWD) for Taurus only. One of the features of my M35X that sold me on the car is that while it's AWD it actually runs as RWD until the rear wheels lost traction. The MKS needs this.

If money was no object to Ford I'd suggest that the Mustang should be offered with IRS and AWD for those who want it.

Looking at GM, the only vehicles I'd consider buying would be the Corvette ZR1 and the CTS-V.
 

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QUOTE (mmmfloorpie @ Feb 19 2009, 12:07 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=703877
Does GM or Chrylser have anything like that to offer?[/b]
Chrysler offers a 1/2 ton pickup with coil springs! :rolleyes2: The 2012 Ram will have 4 wheel independent suspension, be unibody and only come in 4 door and insanely small PLASTIC bed, and only have a VVT V6!
 

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Little off topic, I had a 2008 Malibu LT rental while up in TN. Equipped with a 4 banger and Firestone FR710s on 17"s she handled pretty well through sharp turns up the mountains at SMNP. Could be the tires though since I later realized the great Tirerack reviews on them.
 

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QUOTE (mmmfloorpie @ Feb 19 2009, 11:07 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=703877
Does GM or Chrylser have anything like that to offer?[/b]
The 2010 Buick LaCrosse... if that car is as good as it looks... that interior looks like nothing anyone could've dreamed of from GM even a couple years ago (and probably gives the 2010 Taurus a run for its money). Never cared for the name much though, but... :hmm:

I still want a Buick built off the Commodore platform... maybe once the LaCrosse gets a foothold and the Lucerne is phased out they'll be in a position to do that.
 

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QUOTE (Cliff @ Mar 4 2009, 05:43 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=705497
Little off topic, I had a 2008 Malibu LT rental while up in TN. Equipped with a 4 banger and Firestone FR710s on 17"s she handled pretty well through sharp turns up the mountains at SMNP. Could be the tires though since I later realized the great Tirerack reviews on them.[/b]
The older malibus were for the most part bland, underachieving crap. Now this next part is hard to say since I'm far from a GM fan (ever since they axed Olds) but the new Malibu is probably one of their best cars in years. They are overpriced, but overall they seem to be a really solid car.
 

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QUOTE (Stocker @ Mar 4 2009, 08:48 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=705554
QUOTE (mmmfloorpie @ Feb 19 2009, 11:07 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=703877
Does GM or Chrylser have anything like that to offer?[/b]
The 2010 Buick LaCrosse... if that car is as good as it looks... that interior looks like nothing anyone could've dreamed of from GM even a couple years ago (and probably gives the 2010 Taurus a run for its money). Never cared for the name much though, but... :hmm:

I still want a Buick built off the Commodore platform... maybe once the LaCrosse gets a foothold and the Lucerne is phased out they'll be in a position to do that.
[/b][/quote]
Have you seen the new LaCrosse in person though? The interior is nice, but the exterior styling suffers from horrible Camry bloat syndrome. I just don't think it's very well proportioned, and the positioning of the portholes is just wrong. They don't belong on the hood! My initial reaction was honestly that it looked like an imitation Lexus with Acura tailpipes...especially in red.

There are bits and pieces of it that I do like (interior especially), but all together it just doesn't work for me. I think my biggest problem with it (and lots of other new designs) is that the wheels, even though they're huge, just get lost because of the high beltline, and that makes it look topheavy and overweight. I like cars that are big, purposeful and make a statement, but the new LaCrosse looks big and clumsy to me. It just doesn't have the level of style that I think a big Buick should have, even if they've really been missing that for the vast majority of my life.
 
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