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I am interested in knowing if anyone has ever balanced either a vulcan or duratec. It would defiantely raise the rpm limits but we all know that would not matter if the cam doesnt build power in that rpm range. It would also rev quicker but the transmissions on my cars can't keep up with the motor anyway.

I used to build small block chevys and it is amazing what it will do for output by balancing the reciprocating mass. I would think that with as little that we have to work with on these motors this could draw some massive power out of the little 6.

I have a 94 vulcan with 275K on it and never had the valve covers off. I also have a duratec with 91K on it. I think they are both great motors. Anyway I was just wondering.
 

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The advantage to balancing might not be as great as you might thing. The duratec for example... the effects of balancing will be quite different from your iron chevy 350 ci to the aluminum 182 ci duratec.

-Dan
 
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A few notes on balancing ( I balance a lot of industrial rotating components at work).

Amount of acceptable unbalance is determined by the spec you're balancing to (precision, etc.), the weight of the component, and the operating RPM of the component. The formula looks like this:

N=Gx(W/R)

Where N= the amount of unbalance, G= the spec you're balancing to, W= the weight of the component, and R= the operating RPM of the component.

A note on the "G"--these are specs used by industry. G1 is the tightest spec, and the one we use at work. It'll basically get you down to hundredths of a gram of unbalance.

So knowing that, we can make a few assumptions:

--The higher the RPM, the lower the unbalance spec goes.

--The higher the weight of the rotating component, the lower the spec goes.

We could also reverse that and say:

--A lesser amount of unbalance will enable the engine to safely reach a higher RPM, limited of course by the valvetrain, and the accessories (alternator, etc) that's a whole 'nother topic though.

--A lighter rotating assembly (crank, pistons, etc) will also allow higher rpm's.


So Dan, you are correct in a sense. The Tec spins higher, so should already be balanced more closely than a OHV rotating assembly. However, most manufacturers, in the pursuit of a better bottom line, only balance as good as they need to so that the engine does not self destruct due to inbalance. Having the crank balanced at a rebuild will almost always provide gains, however small they may be. Better balancing will also reduce fatigue on other components, such as bearings. Vibration is a bearing's worst enemy.

The fact that the Tec is an aluminum block does not really matter here. The crank and other rotating components are similar to all other engines.



Here's how things are usually done for an engine balance:

Balance the crank, then attach the flywheel, or flexplate for automatics and balance that.

Pistons can be weighed, and material removed to bring all the pistons as close to possible to the lightest piston.

Rods can also be weighed, and material removed as above.

Other things can be done too, like precision balancing of the accessories (alternator, water pump, ps pump etc). This will allow these accesories to spin at a higher rpm safely also.

As a side note, the mechanicals of the SHO engine can be safely run to over 9k rpm, some speculate even 11k. It is limited by the accessories.
 

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If the idea is to raise the RPMs wouldn't a performance chip or a reflash have to be done??
 

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Most likely. Not if you have a stock car, but chances are if you are looking into balancing, you have some mods. For example, a Vulcan will alter its shift points if you do enough aspiration mods (a stock one may not shift over 5k, do MAF, injectors, intake, exhaust and it will shift at around 5600). If you want to go much higher a chip would probably be necessary. Same with a Duratec, which is already limited. Many (Venom, etc) have reported no problems shifting at 6300 RPM at WOT. Anyone tried to go higher at all (6500?) I'd be afraid of the bearings as well, in fact, it woulda been nice to get a rebuild (quality) instead of a new engine. But oh well...

I guess there's only one way to find out how this could be done. Try it. I'd assume you'd pick up a little bit but I can't see huge gains behind it, although I wouldn't be too surprised seeing something like this on a Duratec where the engine already costs a ton and they are trying to cut costs left and right to make it more affordable (case in point, call a Ford dealer and ask for a 24v engine from a gen 3 Taurus--see the price they quote you for a reman
).
 
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Well, I was going strictly by mechanical guidelines, for a non-computer car. Balancing will not allow higher rpm's on its own, you'd need a chip to do that.

FWIW, I'll be doing all this to the SC motor, I'll take pics to show it all.
 

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dude an most unbalananced OHV engines absolute granade points are like 6600 give or take a few hundred......i wouldnt wanna get anywhere near there
 

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So, bob, when can we expect an Anonda Motorsports 8 PSI Duratec SC kit?


-Dan
 
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Originally posted by dant98@Dec 6 2003, 02:21 PM
So, bob, when can we expect an Anonda Motorsports 8 PSI Duratec SC kit?


-Dan
Well, Doc and I are working on a project that we're trying to design to fit all Taurii, possibly just changing the intake plumbing to facilitate mounting on the different engines. We're really just getting started, so I can't give any facts about the project, other than if it works, it'll be easy, cheap and reliable.


Mikey, as usual, shutup!
j/k
 

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Originally posted by Bob Gervais+Dec 6 2003, 08:44 PM-->QUOTE (Bob Gervais @ Dec 6 2003, 08:44 PM)
<!--QuoteBegin-dant98
@Dec 6 2003, 02:21 PM
So, bob, when can we expect an Anonda Motorsports 8 PSI Duratec SC kit?


-Dan
Well, Doc and I are working on a project that we're trying to design to fit all Taurii, possibly just changing the intake plumbing to facilitate mounting on the different engines. We're really just getting started, so I can't give any facts about the project, other than if it works, it'll be easy, cheap and reliable.


Mikey, as usual, shutup!
j/k [/b]
Bob What if I (and some others) are too much of wusses to crank it up above 5. Can we get a smaller pulley? I mean, compression is already 10:1...
 

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Originally posted by Twilight+Dec 6 2003, 09:51 PM-->QUOTE (Twilight @ Dec 6 2003, 09:51 PM)
Originally posted by Bob [email protected] 6 2003, 08:44 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-dant98
@Dec 6 2003, 02:21 PM
So, bob, when can we expect an Anonda Motorsports 8 PSI Duratec SC kit?


-Dan

Well, Doc and I are working on a project that we're trying to design to fit all Taurii, possibly just changing the intake plumbing to facilitate mounting on the different engines. We're really just getting started, so I can't give any facts about the project, other than if it works, it'll be easy, cheap and reliable.


Mikey, as usual, shutup!
j/k
Bob What if I (and some others) are too much of wusses to crank it up above 5. Can we get a smaller pulley? I mean, compression is already 10:1... [/b]
Wouldn't you need a bigger SC pulley to make less boost?
 

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Alex I had mine shifting at 6500 rpm, and it saw 7k rpm more than a couple times. I had probably 10 passes on it at Norwalk, if not more, and lots more than that on the street playing around. It's still running fine.
 
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Joe, excellent sig pic!!

Alex, as mentioned, a larger pulley will spin the SC slower, giving less boost. It could also be controlled or fine tuned with a blowoff valve.
 

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Yes but custom pulley work gets expensive really fast. And if you hook it up and it's wrong or you FUBAR the calculations you're back to square 1, or worse (engine explodes).
 
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Precisely why Doc's car will be the test dummy.


Really though, all that stuff would be worked out and proved to be operational before anything was sold, shipped, or even marketed. FWIW, I can make my own test pullies, the production units would need to be made at a different shop (we have all manual machines).
 

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Bob, does any amount of boost require custom chip work, of can the ECU compensate?

-Dan
 
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Any amount will require a pcm change, whether it's a chip or a reflash. Depending on how much boost we're talking, a larger MAF may be needed if the boost pegs the voltage on the current MAF, along with larger injectors if the stockers don't keep up.

Example on injectors: The Supercoupes came factory with 36 lb injectors, and the NA 3.8's used 17 and 19 lbs, depending on application.

Basically, it's a trial and error thing until we get enough cars done and know exactly what needs to be done. Case in point: You can get a whole SC setup for a Stang, that comes with an FMU, or a chip, to make the car run correctly.
 

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The club needs to find a member who wants to take the time to learn how to use ECU chip programming tools. It would have to be someone who had EEC V and had an extra taurus to practice with *looks at bob*



-Dan
 
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